Gamers Have It Easy These Days...

[Domarius]

(The stress of Uni was getting to me so I took 30mins out to play this.)

 

Scroll down to the bottom of the post. See that pic?

 

That is EVIL.

 

What is most shocking about this to me is that although this is from a game on the Sega Master System, a console aimed at a fairly young audience, this reminds me of the kind of "you bastard!!"ness you might expect to see on the Commodore 64, aimed at an older, more nerdy generation.

 

This screenshot is from the Sega Master System version of the game "Ghouls 'n' Ghosts".

Right up untill this level, everything has been a pretty standard "jump, shoot, and collect better stuff" platform affair.

 

Then, without warning, they hit you with this.

 

The level opens up at this screen, and you are standing on a moving 'escelator' purple tongue, carrying you across to the right. If this is your first time, you find out (the hard way) that coming into contact with that stone head causes it to close its mouth and your instant death. In a game where you struggle to maintain your precious 2 to 3 hits for the whole level, this is quite devestating.

 

It's too high to jump over, so what you have to do is duck, so that you pass by underneath as the tongue carries you along.

 

Now this is where they are real bastards.

 

See that purple dragonfly looking thing on the right? It moves from right to left, in a "sine wave" (wavey up and down) movement. No big deal, untill you realise, that on one of its downward sweeps, its heading right for you - you guessed it - right at the moment you're below the stone head, when you can't do anything (because if you get up, you die), so it hits you, which causes you to bounce upward in the standard way when you get hit, which of course, takes you straight into the head and you die.

 

So the NEXT life, you figure, "I'll show this guy. I'll rappidly shoot while I'm ducking, and he'll get hit before he gets to me." WRONG. The dragonfly starts off on the upward sweep, staying totally out of your firing line until its on its way down towards you. Even if you mash the fire button from the moment the level starts, while standing, your projectiles won't get there in time before the dragonfly moves up out of the way. So you keep firing, thinking "Fine... surely by the time it comes into contact with me, the spears I'm throwing, being generated at my centerpoint, will come into contact with it before I do, and it'll die." WRONG AGAIN. Those BASTARDS have timed that thing exactly so that on its downward sweep, it JUST clips the back of your foot, way behind where your spears are being generated, but a collision with you nonetheless. Up you go, straight into the mouth again, and you die.

 

Now after you've tried and died 5 or more times in a row finding this out, only then do you learn that from the moment you have to start, you have to start jumping backwards frantically while turning around to take shots at the dragonfly periodically, trying to hit it before it gets close enough to you - but turning around in mid air causes you to travel in that direction as you fall, yes, toward the head. So you have very little chance of getting this right.

 

That was one of my most frustrating video game experiences (frustrating because the game was so cool, and then there was this amazingly hard bit) back when I was young and renting Sega Master System games over the weekend.

 

Ah, the good old days. They don't make 'em like that anymore. Anyone played Ghosts & Goblins on the Commodore 64? Similar to Ghouls 'n' Ghosts in general, but very very different in excecution. I only had the privelage to play it nowadays on the emulator. My GOD that is a ROCK HARD GAME. I still can't get past the second level. Also that game has some of the most funkiest chip-tune style music I have ever heard.

Anyone who hasn't played it should download it NOW, especially those of you who have been ensuring our suggested DarkMod features are "balanced" enough for all gamers. Play this, and see what it was like back when you had to be a REAL man to play games! (Well, a real nerdy one anyway...)

 

 

 

You see, nowadays, you will ALWAYS be able to complete a PC game, because they let you save at any point. It's only a matter of time, not a matter of skill. You just save right at the hardest bit, and if you do it enough times, you're bound to get by out of luck. Without all the experiences that lead to that moment also having to be subject to that same amount of luck, the odds of eventually getting past are quite high. More skill just seems to just make it take less time.

 

But back then, you didn't get past any part of the game until you were good enough! If you got past, it was because you aquired the skills to do so!

 

I wonder if anyone else would like to share similar 'difficult' experiences with their games? If you can fire up an emulator and get a screen shot of the particular part, that would be awesome, otherwise you could always just link to a screenshot of the game from the web somewhere.

[sparhawk]

This will be even more fun if you have the wrong weapon at this time.

[Springheel]

Ah, the good old days. They don't make 'em like that anymore

 

That was one of my most frustrating video game experiences

 

 

You know, one might explain the other....

[oDDity]

THis is a port of an arcade game. I remember playing it back in the 80's. It was all about getting players to feed the slot with money of course, so they had to put in frustrating hard parts in like that.

I'm not sure how closely this console verison followed the arcade game, but it was probably just a direct copy.

[New Horizon]

I had the Sega Genesis version. Loved that game. Definately one of my favorites at the time. That was a damn hard part to get around too. :lol:

[Domarius]

Some of the ports differred quite a bit. The most different one was the SNES one, had the best graphics and music out of them all, but you couldn't shoot upward, had FIXED jumping distance (no moving around in mid air, but supposedly the double jump feature aleviated this. It didn't.), and no hearts, so that even if you had gold armour, you'd go straight down to nothing with one hit (easily the most annoying feature out of all the ports).

 

This will be even more fun if you have the wrong weapon at this time.

Yes like the totally useless axe, hehe.

 

You know, one might explain the other....

Hey be fair. Modern games have their annoying weird bits, my point is that games were harder overall back then.

I guess because they have a wider demographic nowadays.

 

THis is a port of an arcade game. I remember playing it back in the 80's. It was all about getting players to feed the slot with money of course, so they had to put in frustrating hard parts in like that.

If you play arcade games in MAME now, you might notice that with most of them, the first bunch of levels are awesome, then the later levels completely suck because they knew that most people would NEVER get there...

Edited March 18, 2005 by Domarius

[Renzatic]

Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts didn't have hearts, but the sheilds you got along with the golden armor would let you take a projectile to the face without losing your armor.

 

Wow, nice blast from the past, Dom. The GnG series is among my favorites, I've played all 3 countless times. I can't believe you're having trouble with Ghouls though, it was the easiest of the bunch.

[Macsen]

Dizzy was my thing, but I never completed either one of the series. That damn vulture always got me.

 

I used my make simple games like this. I once made one so addictive it consumed my life for about a month. I had to manually delete it in the end, so that it did not spread like a virus throughout the world and cause the collapse of civilisation.

[New Horizon]

Man, I have to break out an SNES emulator and fire up Super Ghouls and Ghosts. That game was pretty damn fun. Loved the level where you're on a ship and waves are crashing over it.

[Denny]

Currently Listening To;

djpretzel - Ghouls 'N Ghosts PsychoUnderpants OC ReMix

 

Is it enough if I say this?

 

Anyway, find 1250 songs via bittorrent over at http://www.ocremix.org/, it's legal as well so don't worry.

[Renzatic]

OCRemix is still around? Man, I haven't checked that site out in years.

[oDDity]

DIfficulty and frustration was the reason all old games (yes, that's right, every single game made before 2001 without exception) are great and all modern games (yes, that's right, every single game made since 2001) are worthless pieces of junk.

Remove the difficulty and the frustration and monitor punching and screaming blue murder, and the sublime exilaration when you finally achieve the impossible, and all you're left with is pushing an avatar around a screen while looking at the pretty pictures on the way.

[Ishtvan]

Plus, the monitor punching built up our knuckle callouses and made us stronger.

 

I think this weekend I'm gonna go buy Silent Hunter III and turn all the realism settings up to maximum, then I'll get back to you on whether a game made after 2001 can be difficult.

[Domarius]

Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts didn't have hearts, but the sheilds you got along with the golden armor would let you take a projectile to the face without losing your armor.

Yeah, for all the good it did. I always saw that as a big tease, like the game was saying "We don't have hearts, but we have this nice big shiny sheild! Look!" it only took one hit, and the odds of anything hitting it instead of you were quite small...

 

Wow, nice blast from the past, Dom. The GnG series is among my favorites, I've played all 3 countless times. I can't believe you're having trouble with Ghouls though, it was the easiest of the bunch. tongue.gif

It was about how I USED to have trouble with it I completed it recently in a bit over about 1 hour... including the second run through to get the psycho cannon and kill Loki at the end.

 

Currently Listening To;

djpretzel - Ghouls 'N Ghosts PsychoUnderpants OC ReMix

Is it enough if I say this?

DUDE!!!!!! If that is the re-mix of the C64 music, EVERYONE SHOULD GET IT RIGHT NOW! IT ROCKS! I have it somewhere but I forgot its exact name.

 

OCRemix is still around? Man, I haven't checked that site out in years.

You really should...

 

Man, I have to break out an SNES emulator and fire up Super Ghouls and Ghosts. That game was pretty damn fun. Loved the level where you're on a ship and waves are crashing over it.

You mean the actual ship, or the raft level, which actually had waves in it? That had the best music - the french horns sound so atmospheric. Edited March 19, 2005 by Domarius

[Ishtvan]

Argh! None of the stores in my back-asswards town have Silent Hunter III in stock yet even tho it's been out since Tuesday! Urge to kill... rising! (hey I guess it's true, games do cause violence)

[god_is_my_goldfish]

OCRemix is still around? Man, I haven't checked that site out in years.

If you do, i heartily reccomend the Kong In Concert Album, by far one of the best internet based music projects i have ever heard.

[Darkness_Falls]

You see, nowadays, you will ALWAYS be able to complete a PC game, because they let you save at any point.  It's only a matter of time, not a matter of skill.  You just save right at the hardest bit, and if you do it enough times, you're bound to get by out of luck...  More skill just seems to just make it take less time.

 

But back then, you didn't get past any part of the game until you were good enough!  If you got past, it was because you aquired the skills to do so!

Thanks for bringing this up, Domarius. It's been a while since I thought about this.

 

I played many Commodore 64 and Amiga 500 games in the 80s/early 90s. You're right: games then did have many tough, frustrating, or 'how the freak do I get out of this situation' moments. And the games seemed to take longer to beat. I don't know if that's because I maybe played so many different games at once, or if the games were designed to last so long, or what. But damn, I remember being entertained for months on certain games. Of course, I was also younger then... so maybe a week just seemed like a month.

 

Regardless, and therefore, it's sad for me when I'm able to beat games that are made today within a weekend or a week of getting them. Whenever I read that a game has "20" or "30" hours of game play, I'm like WTF? I remember thinking in the mid-90s when I got my first gaming PC how rediculous it was that a game had "40 hours of gameplay." 40 hours?? What a rip-off. It's been a while since I thought about that, so that's why I thank you for the reminder, Domarius.

 

I really wanted to get Prince of Persia for the PC when it recently came out (since I really liked PoP years ago on the Amiga 500), but I won't have anything to do with it because I read somewhere it only had like 15 hours of gameplay. That is absolutely rediculous!

 

This subject has really made me think. On the one hand, I appreciate being able to save whenever I want; and I admit I've enjoyed getting through certain games in a reasonable amount of time. However, I truly miss the challenge of the old games now.

 

Deep down, I think that's part of the reason why Thief 2 is my favorite game ever. I couldn't beat it in a weekend. Not even a week. Granted, I was working a lot at the time, but I think I played Thief 2 for an entire month every night after work and still didn't beat it. I think one of the best things about the game was that I played it non-stop for a long time, but then got somewhat bored with it because it was taking so long to beat it, but then picked it back up again a while later to finish it. The whole experience of getting so much gaming time out of it is awesome, and is not seen in any FPS type of game. (Although, Turok and Super Mario 64 for the N64 did take me a long time to beat for some reason. But then again, Turok ranks up there in my list of favorites; so maybe there's something to this.)

 

I don't want to be able to save whenever I want now. I want to feel a sense of accomplishment when I painstakingly fight my way to the end of a level. I want to have a game (non-RPG or adventure) take me a month or more to finish. I really miss those times. I'm tempted to play Thief 2 again, only this time I won't use QuickSaves. Maybe I'll only allow myself to save twice during a level.

 

This internal reflection has put me back in touch with certain things regarding gaming that are near and dear to my heart. Without this thread, I may never have remembered or taken the time to appreciate the sometimes frustrating, yet gratifying times of early gaming. Thanks again.

 

I knew there was a reason I've always wanted to see a game by oDDity come to light.

[oDDity]

That isn't going to happen. Too mnay pussies on the team (the conventional wet kind), as I may have pointed out once or twice before...

[sparhawk]

You can always do your game later, but we shouldn't make this the default, because we want to have as many FMs as possible. Not only two or three specialised ones.

Nobody prevents you form making a hardcore TDM mod where you can implement all the things you don't like in traditional TDM.

[oDDity]

I'm not sire if it's possible, but I'm going to solo Baldurs' Gate 2 as a thief and see how much of it I can ghost. It'll be damn hard anyway, and that alone will make it worth while.

BG is by far my favourite game(s) I;ve played it though 4 or 5 times, but strangely, I never thought of soling it as a thief before.

I'm not looking forward to al those later unavoidable dragon boss fights as a poxy little thief though...

[Darkness_Falls]

That isn't going to happen. Too mnay pussies on the team (the conventional wet kind), as I may have pointed out once or twice before...

Ahh, I had written another line, but took it out. I should've left it in. I was going to say that I'm fine with the Dark Mod taking the course it is. It's not too watered down, like I feel T3 was. The desire for an all-out oDDity type game is more of a desire post-DarkMod.

 

PS: I didn't know you felt that way about us

[Ishtvan]

@Oddity: That's going to be hard unless you include "backstabbing allowed" in the ghosting rules

[oDDity]

Yeah, obviosuly it wasn't designed for pure ghosting, but it'll be fun to see how few kills I can make in the whole game.

[Domarius]

YES Darkness_Falls!!!! Someone else who SEES the huge problem that we have all come to accept as normal in games!!

 

I can't beleive no one else has realised this HUGE problem that "save any time" creates - instead of having all your "close shaves" built up, and so not wanting to die on the next bit, its just the one "close shave" at a time. The odds of you getting past out of pure luck are really high.

 

It's the whole reason I came up with the save points idea!!!!! What do you think of it?

[sparhawk]

Well if we start discussing everything in the public suddenly, then why bother to keeping the dev boards seperate?