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Fan Mission: Breaking out the Fence (17/03/2014) by Kyyrma


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Poll: Poll: Breaking out the Fence impressions (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Gameplay: Enjoyment, fun duration, smooth flow, etc. vs Bugs, boredom, frustration, frame lag

  1. Poor (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Average (2 votes [4.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  3. Good (14 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  4. Excellent (23 votes [54.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.76%

  5. Near perfect (3 votes [7.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

Appearance: Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct for bad texturing, etc.

  1. Poor (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Average (3 votes [7.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  3. Good (21 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  4. Excellent (14 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  5. Near perfect (4 votes [9.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

Story: Story and text, briefing, graphic storytelling

  1. Poor (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Average (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Good (20 votes [47.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 47.62%

  4. Excellent (14 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  5. Near perfect (8 votes [19.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

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#26 Airship Ballet

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:12 PM

I'm adding this in the OP post for future reference, because my testers also found this to be a bit too difficult.


Tester singular, thank you very much!

An awful lot of love went into this, and a lot of enjoyment is the result. Grats on the release! ^_^
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#27 kyyrma

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:26 AM

So, did I manage my goal of making it into your personal top 10? :P

#28 Airship Ballet

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:30 AM

You did! That ain't tester bias speaking, either.
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#29 kyyrma

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:42 AM

Well, that's off my bucket list then. Not much left to achieve in life now to be honest!
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#30 Diego

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:56 PM

Well done! playing this was tons of fun. I've made a few annotations while playing the game (I really should stop by the beta testing forum and do this kind of stuff there) (edit:) and posted them at the beta testing thread.

Edited by Diego, 18 March 2014 - 04:35 PM.


#31 kyyrma

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:09 PM

Thanks a ton for all of those Diego! If you have the access for it, you could also add those in the Gone in Smoke thread (that was the working name for this FM) on the beta forums. It pretty often happens that FM threads become a long list of bugs and glitches, which might give other players a bit negative impression :D

Oh and that last image made me do a reality check! I'm pretty sure its not from my FM.

Edited by kyyrma, 18 March 2014 - 03:14 PM.


#32 Melan

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:21 PM

I give up. Where are the clues for the safe? :ph34r:
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#33 Goldwell

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:23 PM

Thanks a ton for all of those Diego! If you have the access for it, you could also add those in the Gone in Smoke thread (that was the working name for this FM) on the beta forums. It pretty often happens that FM threads become a long list of bugs and glitches, which might give other players a bit negative impression :D

Oh and that last image made me do a reality check! I'm pretty sure its not from my FM.


Hahaha yeah that last image is from A Noble Home! :P

The Accountant Trilogy
Part 1: Thieves and Heirs | Part 2: New In town

 

Shadows of Northdale Trilogy

ACT I
 
Stand Alone Missions
Lord Edgar's Bathhouse | Spring Cleaning


#34 kyyrma

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:32 PM

I give up. Where are the clues for the safe? :ph34r:


Hint 1
Spoiler

Edited by kyyrma, 18 March 2014 - 03:33 PM.


#35 Oldjim

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:34 PM

Deleted - same answer as above

Edited by Oldjim, 18 March 2014 - 03:35 PM.


#36 Melan

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:55 PM

Oh. I tried to work from that, but never used this particular combination. Well.

Anyway, the mission: its architecture was on the simpler side, but it did what it had to do. I mean that as a compliment, since the areas and situations were effective at the mood they wanted to convey - some moments of genuine dread, which is not easy to create in a game, and some moments where you genuinely feel like a master thief outwitting a complex security scheme. I liked the sort of experimentation the mission went into; together with its style, it reminds me of some of the 2000-2001 era Thief 1 FMs. And I like those missions.

As seen from my previous post, the high loot goal totally outwitted me; this might say I am dumb, or it may say the goal is set too high. Your pick. ;)

This was an enjoyable playing experience, and I hope you will make more missions in the future!
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#37 Diego

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:12 PM

Thanks a ton for all of those Diego! If you have the access for it, you could also add those in the Gone in Smoke thread (that was the working name for this FM) on the beta forums. It pretty often happens that FM threads become a long list of bugs and glitches, which might give other players a bit negative impression :D

Oh and that last image made me do a reality check! I'm pretty sure its not from my FM.


:blush: Woops! it's from a noble home.

Next time I'll take all these annotations to the beta testing then. I decided to put them here because I figured beta testing was over. You want me to move the comments there to keep this thread less about technicalities?
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#38 kyyrma

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:21 PM

Anyway, the mission: its architecture was on the simpler side, but it did what it had to do. I mean that as a compliment, since the areas and situations were effective at the mood they wanted to convey - some moments of genuine dread, which is not easy to create in a game, and some moments where you genuinely feel like a master thief outwitting a complex security scheme. I liked the sort of experimentation the mission went into; together with its style, it reminds me of some of the 2000-2001 era Thief 1 FMs. And I like those missions.


That's a really nice way of putting it. I agree that architecture is my weakmpoint Walking around the map during testing I often thought to myself "Damn, I know tons of T2 missions that look better than this." It could have been even more basic, if Airship and RJFerret hadn't been whipping me to add more detail until the very end. I'm really glad they did.

But I'm happy to hear the gameplay and atmosphere held up. I like to think that those are what I'm strong at, so it's good it comes through :P

Regarding the loot limit: it is too high. I balanced it so that on the highest difficulty you either have to find ALL loot, or miss a few items and open the safe. Looking back at it, that might be a bit annoying if you don't figure out the safe combination.

Diego: Yes please, if its not too much hassle! Thanks for the consideration.

Edited by kyyrma, 18 March 2014 - 04:22 PM.


#39 kyyrma

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:41 PM

Once more people have cleared the level, there is something I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on.

When I was building the level, my inspiration was actually more Deus Ex (which I had recently been replaying) than Thief. Whereas Thief usually gives you most if not all tools right at the start of the level, and allows you to be creative with them, I wanted to take the tools away. This way finding an item is like a key, it allows you to do new things and try new routes. I guess it should also make it feel more rewarding.

I wonder, does it show to the player?



#40 csamba

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:51 PM

A delighful little mission with lots of attractive details. Some frightful, yes, but that's exactly what makes them attractive... on the other hand, I could hardly exceed the loot limit on the highest setting, even after emptying the safe. I'm pretty certain I've been everywhere. Any hint for some not-so-obvious locations would be much appreciated :).
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#41 kyyrma

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:07 PM

Thank you, I'm glad you have enjoyed it!

In regards of loot...

Spoiler


Second one, a bit more straight forward...

Spoiler



#42 csamba

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

Thanks a lot, these 2 pieces helped me to 2071/2114, close enough to the perfectionist's paradise... I read the hint
Spoiler

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#43 GUFF

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:00 PM

Just posting again to say by the way good job, I replayed your first mission and this was a massive improvement in every way.
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#44 kyyrma

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:27 AM

Thanks guys.

The loot limit on Expert is a bit too hard. I should have caught it during testing, but at the point it was introduced both me and my testers were already so well versed in the level that they naturally had little trouble completing it.

Oh and GUFF, tell me about it! :P Looking back at my first FM I think I've come a long way. Still a lot to learn to compare with the big boys though. Especially with architecture. I've been toying with the idea of remaking In a Time of Need and adding more of the city area into it, so that might be my next project. We'll see!

I just noticed I've made the poll public (everyone can see what you have voted). I thought public meant you can see the scores. I tried changing it but apparently I can't. Sorry about that everyone! Don't be afraid of leaving a harsh vote.

Edited by kyyrma, 20 March 2014 - 08:37 AM.


#45 Melan

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:11 AM

My advice is not to get bogged down with remakes, but to apply your knowledge to new endeavours. ;)
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#46 Oldjim

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:18 AM

Just voted and to explain - I downgraded appearance and gameplay from excellent because of a few bugs and texture errors
If it weren't for that it would have been excellent across the board

Regarding loot - as I solved the safe problem without any trouble (I used the experience in playing Dishonored to good effect) I had no trouble with the loot objective

Edited by Oldjim, 20 March 2014 - 09:21 AM.


#47 id3839315

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:44 AM

Do you have to solve the objectives in a specific order?
The objective changes to "Meet Terry by the pier" after opening the prison but sometimes he isn't there.
Spoiler


#48 kyyrma

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:06 PM

Thanks for voting! You can solve the main objectives in any order.

Regarding the issue with Terry being missing:
Spoiler


Regarding the items you asked about:
Spoiler

Edited by kyyrma, 20 March 2014 - 12:10 PM.


#49 Taquito

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:53 PM

Once more people have cleared the level, there is something I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on.

When I was building the level, my inspiration was actually more Deus Ex (which I had recently been replaying) than Thief. Whereas Thief usually gives you most if not all tools right at the start of the level, and allows you to be creative with them, I wanted to take the tools away. This way finding an item is like a key, it allows you to do new things and try new routes. I guess it should also make it feel more rewarding.

I wonder, does it show to the player?



It is a bit difficult to compare it with Deus Ex since in DX you would still be able to find weapons by taking out a guard, but it did felt like you were trying to do something different and I think it worked. My only complaints would be that I would have liked to start at the Pier for reference and the key in the sewers and the code were impossible for me to find ( I had to check the thread to finish the Mission). Nevertheless The map has a lot of features which keep me entertained and at the same time it made the Guards feel much more active and alive than usual. I was really scared during the sewers area and it shows how easily this game can escalate the fear factor. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the structure from this game is closely related to Doom. BTW where the heck is the beggar? :/

#50 kyyrma

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:06 PM

Thanks for the detailed comments :)

It is a bit difficult to compare it with Deus Ex since in DX you would still be able to find weapons by taking out a guard, but it did felt like you were trying to do something different and I think it worked. My only complaints would be that I would have liked to start at the Pier for reference and the key in the sewers and the code were impossible for me to find ( I had to check the thread to finish the Mission).


During testing RJFerret suggested that I should have a second key available, or even make the shut off area lockpickable to avoid player frustration. In hindsight I should have taken his advice, but I didn't want to make that area too easy either. This is something I might address in a patch later on.

Nevertheless The map has a lot of features which keep me entertained and at the same time it made the Guards feel much more active and alive than usual. I was really scared during the sewers area and it shows how easily this game can escalate the fear factor. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the structure from this game is closely related to Doom. BTW where the heck is the beggar? :/


I'm really glad to hear that a lot of people liked the atmosphere in the sewers. I've never tried making that kind of thing before, so I'm surprised it has turned out to be effective. You are right about the common heritage with Doom 3 making it pretty easy to create scary places. Setting up creepy lighting and ambient sounds is surprisingly easy in the editor.

The reason why the guards might feel "more alive" is the way their paths have been built. IIRC I saw you asking about the robotic AI in the general "What could be improved" thread. As you can see, the mapper can influence how the AI appears quite a bit. In many early FMs AI was simply set to follow rigid paths, but the popular method these days is to create several smaller paths that the AI can then switch between on the fly. This causes the AI to appear much more random and realistic.

Regarding Mr. Beggar...

Spoiler

Edited by kyyrma, 21 March 2014 - 04:09 PM.





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