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Is TDM a Game?


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#1 Springheel

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:36 AM

This thread seems full of that "TDM is not a game" attitude (generally from the mods who are trying to salvage the reputation of Thief, it seems from casual reading).

http://forums.eidosg...d.php?p=1995148
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#2 New Horizon

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:01 PM

I don't know how they could think it isn't a game NOW. During development, sure, when we had to try and sell it as a platform for making FM's to Mission authors first...but it's a platform with around 80 missions. That's a game.

#3 Melan

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:40 PM

Some people will never be convinced. In the case of Eidos forum mods, the term "sunk cost fallacy" comes to my mind. ;)
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Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#4 stumpy

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 02:35 PM

darkradiant is the toolset and the darkmod is the engine to run the missions, so its a game, was doom 3 a game or a toolset as the editor is built into doom 3 by id software to make doom 3 maps.

#5 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 01:48 PM

http://forums.eidosg...d.php?p=1995148

I replied - http://forums.eidosg...64&postcount=71 as NH seems to be fighting over there alone, that said i wont waste any more time over there, they clearly don't know WTF they are talking about.

#6 New Horizon

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:10 PM

Well, not really fighting anything but just trying to get through to them that TDM is the game and that Dark Radiant is the editor. They've got their opinion that it's a platform for FM's...and not a game due to not having an official campaign story. Whatever. Not worth it.
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#7 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:11 PM

Whatever. Not worth it.

Agreed, but I had make a point at-least once.

#8 New Horizon

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:13 PM

I have made the same mistake before...and I thought I had learned, when clearly I didn't. Say nothing. So simple...yet so hard.
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#9 Springheel

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:34 PM

Yeah, there's not much point in arguing about it...especially considering TDM is actually winning the poll, and only the two "defend Thief at any cost" mods are making an issue of it.

Their attempts to explain themselves don't even make sense.
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TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#10 grayman

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:53 PM

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

#11 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:40 PM

I may use just use the bargy to boost my posts count so I can at least vote in the poll. :ph34r:

#12 Melan

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:45 PM

Now they are just making a dishonest argument. No use talking to them, as hard as that may be.
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Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#13 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:49 PM

Now they are just making a dishonest argument. No use talking to them, as hard as that may be.

Its all cool, I know they are talking complete and utter shite. But like a certain contest now publicity is bad publicity.

[update] Its not very often I have all the facts at my disposal and the conversation is quite amusing, if not ironic.

#14 Springheel

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:15 PM

But like a certain contest now publicity is bad publicity.


Uh...I wouldn't agree with that. It wouldn't do us any good to look overly emotional or defensive.
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#15 Vae

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:47 PM

Yeah, there's not much point in arguing about it...especially considering TDM is actually winning the poll, and only the two "defend Thief at any cost" mods are making an issue of it.

Their attempts to explain themselves don't even make sense.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Now they are just making a dishonest argument. No use talking to them, as hard as that may be.

Its all cool, I know they are talking complete and utter shite. But like a certain contest now publicity is bad publicity.

Its not very often I have all the facts at my disposal and the conversation is quite amusing, if not ironic.


Of course, their corruption is clear...Stopping at nothing to unfairly discredit TDM, as an excuse to boltser the lesser NuThief.

...and like I said, one might want to reconsider a questionable association with a misguided project that holds a generally unfavorable public eye...Doing so would be sign of strength...a statement of fortitude, that reinforces the importance of authentic freedom and emergent gameplay...whilst at the same time, rejecting those who seek to twist and displace those essential values...now, and into the future.

Edited by Vae, 17 March 2014 - 04:51 PM.


#16 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:08 PM

It wouldn't do us any good to look overly emotional or defensive.

I have too much self respect and respect for the mod, for that to happen.

#17 nbohr1more

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:13 PM

Oh they're so full of it. If I stopped by the forums and released a huge 8 mission campaign that easily rivaled T2 we still wouldn't have a "game" because the whole TDM Team didn't work on it?

Grayman better put some false contributors credits in his WS series.

You better not tell him about the 7 Thomas Porter missions since the 3 mission NHAT almost gave him a heart attack. Both also are made by team members.... Imagine that.
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Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#18 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:16 PM

well Its clear the guy is selectively biased, so I shall leave him to enjoy what ever trip he is on.

#19 grayman

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:31 PM

Grayman better put some false contributors credits in his WS series.


I think I remember Steven Spielberg contributing something. Maybe it was just hot pockets.
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#20 demagogue

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:27 PM

You could do it Purah style with long credits that have "grayman" for basically every part.
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#21 Vae

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:36 PM

You could do it Purah style with long credits that have "grayman" for basically every part.


But then it still wouldn't really be a "game" now, would it. :laugh:

Eventually, it'll probably come down to, "Well, if it's not a commercial AAA cinematic rail-ride, then it's not really a game".

#22 rich_is_bored

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:51 AM

If a game must have a story then what the hell is Pac-Man?
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#23 Melan

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:14 AM

*
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Don't knock Pac-Man. Pac-Man is a deep psychological examination of overeating disorder and being haunted by your guilt, which you can only confront and overcome by consuming pulsing, colourful drugs. It is a prime example of an auteur game.
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Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#24 wesp5

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

As for the discussion of whether The Dark Mod is a game or not, does it come preinstalled with at least one mission besides training? I can't really remember this as I downloaded a bunch of FMs right then, but if it does, it has any right to be called a game! Which is similar in my opinion to another great free game, The Babylon Project. With this again the multiple fan campaigns are the most important part, but still the original game included two campaigns itself and thus was playable as a complete game right from the start without any downloads!

#25 Springheel

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

It comes with St. Lucia and the Training Mission installed.

Even if it didn't, I find it hard to imagine that is the sticking point for anyone. If it comes with missions already installed then it's a game, but if I have to make two extra clicks to get the missions then it's not?
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps




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