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Mantling in the Tutorial - Help, please


HurstLlama

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Can someone please tell me the trick for mantling up to the high ledge in the climbing and jumping section of the tutorial? I just cannot get it to work consistently or even often. I have managed it a few times by holding the jump key but each success was preceded by, maybe, thirty failures, I have never managed it using the dedicated mantle key. I am sure I am doing something wrong but I have no idea what.

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The overhead one?

 

Stand back so the edge is in your view. Move forward, press and hold the jump button until you hear and see the mantling happen.

 

If you mean the window you are supposed to jump over to, I had tons of problems with that one too, it requires running and jumping.

 

In both cases, keep the jump key held until you hear the sound of mantling.

 

PS: The separate mantle key I find most useful in spots where you can't jump, when the object to mantle is in front of you rather than above you.

Edited by RJFerret

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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My thanks, Gents, I think I have now cracked the problem (I was looking up too high, when the in game message said look at the ledge I thought it meant one had to look at the ledge and when it said one could use the mantle key I thought it meant I could use the mantle key).

 

Anyway I am now over that hump but have run into a new one - jumping on to a rope. I'll get there in the end I dare say. That said having been computer gaming since the mid 1980s (including all the Thief series and Dishonoured), I struggle to remember a game as frustrating as TDM. On present performance I might be ready to go for a proper mission in another 20 or 30 hours of practice. I am sure it will be worth the effort, but a note to the designers; this is a hobby game, do not give up the day job.

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My thanks, Gents, I think I have now cracked the problem (I was looking up too high, when the in game message said look at the ledge I thought it meant one had to look at the ledge and when it said one could use the mantle key I thought it meant I could use the mantle key).

 

It says exactly what it means. Look at the ledge you want to mantle. If you can reach it without jumping, the mantle key will work. If you have to jump, hold down jump (I suppose you could try jumping and then pressing the mantle key, but that seems awkward). The only reason it will fail is if you're actually under the ledge (so you bump into it while trying to jump/mantle) or you're too far away.

 

 

Anyway I am now over that hump but have run into a new one - jumping on to a rope

 

What problem are you having with that? If you jump in the direction of the rope, and you're close enough to hit it in the air, you'll stick to it. Swinging on it and jumping off is admittedly difficult, but getting on to one shouldn't be.

 

Very few people have reported problems jumping on ropes...the one or two I remember were because people were walking around with 'crouch' toggled on all the time or because they were creeping instead of walking.

 

but a note to the designers; this is a hobby game, do not give up the day job.

 

Thanks for the tip.

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Wowzers, I had no experience with Thief beforehand and in minutes had mantled just by doing what the pop-ups said. As previously mentioned, the only trouble for me was realizing you had to run-jump over to the window. (And I am not a gamer, got bored with them back in the 80s, as they were all just variations of the same things.)

 

Obviously folks have different communication styles, and what is said can be interpreted entirely differently from how the deliverer might have intended, and one might be frustrated if they have been trying repeatedly without much success, but now that you've seen the results from the explanation you might extrapolate that out for future? Might have preconceived notions from those prior experiences to shed as well?

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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I had no problem with that one at all. I just followed the screen tips. What I cannot do for the life of me is the fighting tutorial. i kill the first guard quite easilly but I can't even kill the second one. The block key seems to randomly work ( I guess it's not and I just haven't gotten the timing right yet), and the moving mouse to set the direction of attacks is just way to hard for me (any way to change that with assigning keys for it?). Not to mention the guard countering almost every attack I make.

Sometimes I want to scream

So long that life escapes

And then I'd shut my eyes

I'd be the angel of disgrace

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The block was tricky for me too, the timing is to wait until they've started their swing, which determines where to block.

 

There are posts from me back when I started totally unable to beat even the first guard, until watching video and seeing someone move around like crazy to dodge attacks as well (which isn't as easy now). Thankfully only one mission really requires fighting.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Thankfully only one mission really requires fighting.

 

Speaking of that mission, after you've been jumped by the

fiery skeleton

is there more fighting after that? I guess I need to go and do the fighting training mission, but as a player who likes to ghost I've never been able to summon the enthusiasm for it, but I'd like to complete that mission ... if it's not got too much more fighting in it, as his missions have been pretty good.

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Speaking of that mission, after you've been jumped...

 

Just that, the rest is better/back to normal. The other option is to cheat around it via "notarget" temporarily, just don't forget to turn it off right after!

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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My thanks, Gents, I think I have now cracked the problem (I was looking up too high, when the in game message said look at the ledge I thought it meant one had to look at the ledge and when it said one could use the mantle key I thought it meant I could use the mantle key).

 

Anyway I am now over that hump but have run into a new one - jumping on to a rope. I'll get there in the end I dare say. That said having been computer gaming since the mid 1980s (including all the Thief series and Dishonoured), I struggle to remember a game as frustrating as TDM. On present performance I might be ready to go for a proper mission in another 20 or 30 hours of practice. I am sure it will be worth the effort, but a note to the designers; this is a hobby game, do not give up the day job.

 

Gaming since mid 1980's? I really thought from your posts that you had just discovered games that allow free form movement. :blink:

 

Edit: Single mantle key works well if you're not sure if the jump/mantle will be successful and there are threats around.

Edited by Deadlove
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On present performance I might be ready to go for a proper mission in another 20 or 30 hours of practice.

 

Oh my, you must have played primarily point and clicks and western RPGs. My main complaint about TDM is that it's too easy.

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Wowzers, I had no experience with Thief beforehand and in minutes had mantled just by doing what the pop-ups said. As previously mentioned, the only trouble for me was realizing you had to run-jump over to the window. (And I am not a gamer, got bored with them back in the 80s, as they were all just variations of the same things.)

 

Obviously folks have different communication styles, and what is said can be interpreted entirely differently from how the deliverer might have intended, and one might be frustrated if they have been trying repeatedly without much success, but now that you've seen the results from the explanation you might extrapolate that out for future? Might have preconceived notions from those prior experiences to shed as well?

 

Indeed, Mr. Ferret. I shall keep plugging away because at the end of the process I think I am going to have access to a very good game indeed. Of course, I am old, very old by current gamer standards, and have the time and the temperament to master new skills and new ideas, though I need some help sometimes. I am not sure that TDM would make it as a commercial game because too many of its potential market would not put up with the sort of experience I had in trying to get through one small, mechanistic, part of a tutorial,

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I asked for help too! I'm not in my 80s or 90s yet (as you can tell from my pic), so am young I guess, since nowadays plenty of gamers are in their 50s, 60s and 70s and retirement homes promote their game systems.

 

The cool thing about not being a teenager is realizing it's not an ego blow to ask for help, it simply increases the enjoyment! :-) This is also a pretty great community of folks who respond helpfully rather promptly, so feel free to take advantage of it/us. It seems every now and then someone runs into something that doesn't jive with the way they anticipate it might work, which happens with everything that has a large and growing user base, it's just the way the odds work (regardless of whether it's paid for or free).

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Gaming since mid 1980's? I really thought from your posts that you had just discovered games that allow free form movement. :blink:

 

That brings up the question... as games are becoming more "cinematic" and every action is being changed into a static sequence, how should tutorial messages for the mechanics of immersive sims be formed? If players are all being made used to "Press X to enter ledge hanging animation sequence" -then do we need to make it absolutely clear to players that actions that obviously require running, jumping and climbing, actually utilize the movement controls for running, jumping and climbing, instead of just "X for everything"? Games like NuThief are brainwashing players into thinking that certain multi-action moves are supposed to be automated sequences, and then something like the Dark Mod actually has the audacity of having separate keys for separate actions. Ridiculous, right? That's like having separate muscles for moving your legs and your arms. That is becoming a foreign concept. Immersive sims are so rare that unambiguous controls and complete freedom of movement are unimaginable for many players of modern games.

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Wowzers, I had no experience with Thief beforehand and in minutes had mantled just by doing what the pop-ups said. As previously mentioned, the only trouble for me was realizing you had to run-jump over to the window. (And I am not a gamer, got bored with them back in the 80s, as they were all just variations of the same things.)

 

How'd you find out about TDM? I thin that's pretty cool the game got you hooked even tho you never played the series it's inspired from.

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That brings up the question... as games are becoming more "cinematic" and every action is being changed into a static sequence, how should tutorial messages for the mechanics of immersive sims be formed? If players are all being made used to "Press X to enter ledge hanging animation sequence" -then do we need to make it absolutely clear to players that actions that obviously require running, jumping and climbing, actually utilize the movement controls for running, jumping and climbing, instead of just "X for everything"? Games like NuThief are brainwashing players into thinking that certain multi-action moves are supposed to be automated sequences, and then something like the Dark Mod actually has the audacity of having separate keys for separate actions. Ridiculous, right? That's like having separate muscles for moving your legs and your arms. That is becoming a foreign concept. Immersive sims are so rare that unambiguous controls and complete freedom of movement are unimaginable for many players of modern games.

 

I concur. I seriously think NuThief would greatly benefit from dedicated buttons for use/lean/swoop so the computer doesn't accidentally do the wrong thing.

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How'd you find out about TDM? I thin that's pretty cool the game got you hooked even tho you never played the series it's inspired from.

 

Slashdot.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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