Just finished playing: BioShock:Inf - Ep1 & 2

[Bikerdude]

Man... its almost like another entire game. Well worth the £11 I paid for the seaon pass.

 

I dislicked the ending though, I kinda wished

Elizabeth had survived

.

 

All in all, great game.

[Kvorning]

When I played BS:I, I was just absolutely blown away by the graphics. The style and design is amazing and glad to hear the DLC holds up. Only other game I've played where I really feel rewarded for buying DLC, is Borderlands 2.

 

The only thing keeping me from replaying Inifinite, the toggle crouch/aim/sprint.

 

I feel the finger cramps already just thinking about it

[At0mic]

I've only played the main Bioshock Infinite campaign. Definitely very pretty (color, what a concept!) but the gunplay was awful. They weapons just didn't feel particularly special and the enemies were simply bullet sponges without any particularly interesting AI. For a game that's strong on narrative but still at its core an FPS, this is not a good thing. I hear EP1 is more of the same but EP2 is less direct combat focused and more stealth focused, which sounds like an improvement.

 

I honestly would have been happier if BI was more of an adventure game and didn't have any shooter elements are all. The FPS element feels like it's there just as an obstacle to get to the next part of the story, as opposed to being a satisfying component in its own right.

[Airship Ballet]

For a game that's strong on narrative but still at its core an FPS, this is not a good thing.

 

There's a lot of narrative, but it's not strong. Levine managed to mess up multiverse theory harder than Cameron butchered time travel.

[Lux]

What puts me off so much about Infinite is that the color, atmosphere, and scenery all make the world seem so alive and yet I don't think a single pedestrian will respond to anything you say (pressing E to use) or do. They're like static models. Maybe there's a message in that Levine was trying to convey but it comes across as a very very dead world feeling which cast a huge shadow over the world during my playthrough.

 

The other thing was, months before the release they're showing these videos of you and Elizabeth fightly along side each other vs. big bird and that bridge scene where you're fighting with her and she's using her powers,etc. All of that was entirely NOT in the game... so something was completely a miss.

 

I'd say with the extra effort it would take to bring the world alive with the pedestrians not being there and all the bit about the fights alongside Elizabeth being taken out... it was rushed and pushed out the door.

 

The original Bioshock, it was fantastic in many ways. Sure there were a few things here and there but by and large it was an excellent game. Infinite for me was more along the lines of Thi4f. Its pretty but once you're done playing it, uninstall and try to forget about it.

 

I don't know about any DLC though as from what you're guys are saying possibly the second one is worth some time.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Lux

[lowenz]

What puts me off so much about Infinite is that the color, atmosphere, and scenery all make the world seem so alive and yet I don't think a single pedestrian will respond to anything you say (pressing E to use) or do. They're like static models. Maybe there's a message in that Levine was trying to convey but it comes across as a very very dead world feeling which cast a huge shadow over the world during my playthrough.

 

The other thing was, months before the release they're showing these videos of you and Elizabeth fightly along side each other vs. big bird and that bridge scene where you're fighting with her and she's using her powers,etc. All of that was entirely NOT in the game... so something was completely a miss.

 

I'd say with the extra effort it would take to bring the world alive with the pedestrians not being there and all the bit about the fights alongside Elizabeth being taken out... it was rushed and pushed out the door.

 

The original Bioshock, it was fantastic in many ways. Sure there were a few things here and there but by and large it was an excellent game. Infinite for me was more along the lines of Thi4f. Its pretty but once you're done playing it, uninstall and try to forget about it.

 

I don't know about any DLC though as from what you're guys are saying possibly the second one is worth some time.

+1

I honestly would have been happier if BI was more of an adventure game and didn't have any shooter elements are all. The FPS element feels like it's there just as an obstacle to get to the next part of the story, as opposed to being a satisfying component in its own right.

+1000

 

Bioshock 1&2 remains the gold standard/perfect blend.

Edited April 13, 2014 by lowenz

[lowenz]

There's a lot of narrative, but it's not strong. Levine managed to mess up multiverse theory harder than Cameron butchered time travel.

Yes, maybe he aimed way too high.....

But the 2 Lutece are indeed instant-classic characters.

 

http://bioshockmysteries.wordpress.com

Edited April 13, 2014 by lowenz

[Lux]

Bioshock 1&2 remains the gold standard/perfect blend.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, a SS2 complete overhaul wOULd have been the gold standard had they not changed anything and SS2, for me, is the gold standard of a perfect game.

 

I couldn't get past the first mission in Bioshock 2... couldn't get in to it/felt clunky.

[Airship Ballet]

Yes, maybe he aimed way too high.....

 

[wall of text]

 

 

Seems to me like he had either high hopes that were dumbed down, or a too-simple plot that tries and fails to tackle complicated things with childrens' bedtime story complexity. It's absolutely full of cliché and paradox, to the point where I can't believe it's praised on narrative.

 

Racism - Binary opposition against a certain kind of person, incorrectly using colonial America as something that exemplifies it, when it didn't. They weren't despised, only viewed as commodities and mistreated in the same way a dead-end UPS delivery man might have a bad day and throw a parcel over a wall. At the time it's thought that it was the fear of the unknown and a means of oppression that gave birth to discrimination. Racism as we know it didn't really form until slaves were set free, at which point that fear escalated into aggressive fear, like when you let crabs in a bucket go from a distance on top of a rock because they're scary and snippy. In Bioshock Infinite, it goes as far as calling people negroes and spouting crap about the glory of 'Murica. There's no development of it. It's mentioned in the first 5 minutes and dropped. You see a couple black guys scrubbing the floors later on and that's about it. Levine was A) too afraid to be controversial with it and handling something he didn't properly understand.

 

Oppressive Government - Levine used some weird mix of Huxley's and Orwell's totalitarianism. You have Huxley's populace in that they're sheeples who have no desire to ever know anything other than what the government tells them, and then you have Orwell's, where it's enforced. The two are completely contradictory, and the first is thrown in for the uncanny while the latter is thrown in for an excuse to have rebellion and explosions and trademark big robutts. You can't have both, it genuinely doesn't work. He doesn't seem to get that, and just picked up on as many oppressive regime clichés as he could. You've got the voice of the people, actually called the Vox Populi because God forbid you should be witty about it. Then you've got the dumb sheeples, the afraid-yet-clear-sighted couple quietly whispering about wanting to move, and then their wage-slave soldier counterparts: the ones who think it's right and the ones who don't want to be murdered. They all exist under the same government and yet have responses characteristic of the oppressed under different systems. It's dumb, it's lowest common denominator, it's spectacle, it's completely thoughtless and it's simplified and paradoxical as anything.

 

Socio-Economic Strife - Capitommunism! A capitalist ladder with riches at the top and jobbers at the bottom. Those jobbers are all told they work for a common cause and actually believe it. Capitommunism is basically Communism, since it's just the majority working for pennies while the governing parties make millions, but in this case it's a really ham-fisted mix of the two. Totalitarian communism as this is, it's thoroughly unbelievable that people would be scrounging for jobs while members of the public live in all the rich buildings you see. It'd all look like a shithole or there'd be more than one job in the place. Don't work in a factory? You don't have a job! Then where the hell do the rich people get their money? Certainly not working in a factory, and certainly not from the leaders since they're all making sure nobody has the resources to fight back (despite some not wanting to because writing and some openly fighting back and so on and eurgh this writing). Again, there's another huge paradox.

 

Multiverse - Not touching it, seriously. It's wrong and paradoxical in enough ways to contest Terminator's place at the top of the We Didn't Think This Complicated Metaphysical Theory Through Properly leaderboard. It's put in to make people go "whooaaaa" at face value and then quickly shuffles you along quickly enough that you have no time to stop and think about it. It's senseless, it's completely self-contradictory and it's a cop-out. Granted, the theory is confusing as all hell, and almost impossible to work into a lengthy narrative without sending you flying over your own feet, but surely that's grounds to not try it in the first place. It's fun, yes, and it's not done often, but it certainly shouldn't get the praise it has given how utterly borked it is. The Luteces are only ever stuck in to give exposition or irritatingly flash symbolism in the player's face and giggle to themselves when they don't get it because it's their first playthrough. They could be so much better, but as they stand they're used for cryptic metaphors stuck in so Levine can fool himself into believing his narrative has some depth to it that isn't inherent in the subject matter he chose.

 

 

 

As a game it's better than Bioshock 2, and I had a decent amount of fun with it. In terms of narrative, however, every Bioshock game has been a half-assed attempt at tackling something confusing and loaded with meaning and Levine's failed to render it with anything other than binary logic every time. Vice is bad m'kay. Conditioning exists m'kay. Maternal love is important m'kay. 'Murica isn't as great as it thinks it is m'kay. Multiverse theory solves all a writer's problems and plot holes, m'kay. It's bawlls. If you took some Levine OC and stuck it in a proper novel unrelated to the Bioshock universe, it'd be laughed out of the industry. If you put it alongside pseudo-thrilling shootbangs and give it to 17yo English Lit students, it's GotY. I'm not surprised that the narrative is hailed as anything above mediocre but I'm sure as hell disheartened by it.

[lowenz]

Let's not kid ourselves, a SS2 complete overhaul wOULd have been the gold standard had they not changed anything and SS2, for me, is the gold standard of a perfect game.

 

I couldn't get past the first mission in Bioshock 2... couldn't get in to it/felt clunky.

Try harder!

 

The story about the love bond between a "father" and a "daughter" with the hatred of a raging godlike mother is AWESOME.

Edited April 13, 2014 by lowenz

[lowenz]

[wall of text]

This is the kind of severity of a disappointed lover

Edited April 13, 2014 by lowenz

[Bikerdude]

Try harder! The story about the love bond between a "father" and a "daughter" with the hatred of a raging godlike mother is AWESOME.

Yes, its definitly worth playing past that point.

[Lux]

Try harder!

 

The story about the love bond between a "father" and a "daughter" with the hatred of a raging godlike mother is AWESOME.

 

Maybe I'll reinstall it and give it go. Have a number of weeks before Watch Dogs anway so there's plenty of time.

 

"Hatred of a raging godlike mother", is maybe more, "jealousy of youth", than hatred but yeah I get your drift.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Lux

[Airship Ballet]

This is the kind of severity of a disappointed lover

 

Nahh, never really been impressed by any Bioshock games. It's more like bemused frustration that such crappy writing can be considered decent because it isn't another 'Murica Vs The World story. Besides, it's not severe, just critical. You can shine an ounce of common sense on it and see how riddled the narrative is. I think what makes it particularly frustrating is how emblematic it is of the AAA crowd. It's such simple gorbij, yet it was hailed as the dawn of a new age of narrative, same for BS1. All that had was a plot twist and binary morality, seriously no idea why it wowed so many. Not only that, but Levine's gone off to focus specifically on narrative-driven games now. Eurgh.

 

The story about the love bond between a "father" and a "daughter" with the hatred of a raging godlike mother is AWESOME.

 

 

[DEEP, MEANINGFUL NARRATIVE INTENSIFIES]

Edited April 13, 2014 by Airship Ballet

[7upMan]

So when choosing between Dishonored and Bioshock: Infinite, which game would you recommend?

[lowenz]

If you're a Thief lover Dishonored all the way

[Bikerdude]

its a tough choice if you refering to BS 1 & 2, but I would say dishonoured.

[Melan]

[quote name='Airship Ballet' timestamp='1397426328' post='343377']Nahh, never really been impressed by any Bioshock games. It's more like bemused frustration that such crappy writing can be considered decent because it isn't another 'Murica Vs The World story. Besides, it's not severe, just critical. You can shine an ounce of common sense on it and see how riddled the narrative is. I think what makes it particularly frustrating is how emblematic it is of the AAA crowd. It's such simple gorbij, yet it was hailed as the dawn of a new age of narrative, same for BS1. All that had was a plot twist and binary morality, seriously no idea why it wowed so many. Not only that, but Levine's gone off to focus specifically on narrative-driven games now. Eurgh.[/quote]
Bioshock and particularly Infinite's critical reception is solid proof about the massively lowered expectations of the game industry. These games have high-concept settings which grant them a thin veneer of intellectualism, but fail due to have plots which collapse under even light scrutiny, simplified gameplay that simultaneously manages to be immersion-breaking and deeply dissatisfying as a shooter, rollercoaster-style linearity, and narratives that are hammered into the player's head without an ounce of subtlety. I have tried to watch Dishonored on Youtube, but it was painful even as a spectator. These games represent a massive decline of standards in comparison with the Thief - Deus Ex - System Shock 2 generation of games.

[quote name='7upMan' timestamp='1397473120' post='343406']So when choosing between Dishonored and Bioshock: Infinite, which game would you recommend?[/quote]
Dishonored all the way. It has a fairly simple revenge plot, but it is a game that actually cares about its own setting, features nonlinear level design with actual choices, has a layer of moral ambiguity, and actually manages to innovate in stealth gameplay. Also check out the DLC, which is excellent, and improves on the basic game. Edited April 14, 2014 by Melan

[Airship Ballet]

[Wall of Text]

 

I'd rather pick neither, but if you told me at gunpoint that I had to pick up and finish either Dishonored or Bioshock Infinite, I'd pick the latter. I still think it's a superficial, immersionless sign of the times with repetitive, broken on-rails gameplay and paper-thin narrative but it's the thought of it. I'm sick to the back teeth of dreary, oppressed, plague-ridden industrial Victorian England city X. I can't even think of that many games that have done it, but after playing Dishonored and Thiaf I'd had enough of it. It's so simple to do, jumping from trope to trope and claiming that the mind-numbing visuals are a feature. While Infinite's only succeeded at face value, and everything drawn from what you see is uninspired and riddled with holes at best, it was nice to look at. It was an inventive place, it was somewhere I've never seen before. All the symbolism was so unsubtle and patronising that I was about ready to blow my brains out but it was sunny, it was pretty and it was pleasantly fantastical. While Dishonored was fun to play the first time, I really can't bring myself to spend another few hours trapsing around in sunny old Dunwall. It really was miserable. If you think about it, Half Life 2 went for the same aesthetic with the struggling industrial city augmented by near-future technology made and installed purely to perpetuate control over the people. That wasn't boring to look at, in fact I think the only difference is the smothering particle effects and the dreary post-processing.

 

 

On a narrative level, Dishonored's aesthetic succeeds, but just to look at for extended periods of time, Dunwall really put me to sleep. It may be superficial and mildly hypocritical of me, but right now I'd prefer sunny shootbangs in Columbia to depressing supersneaks in Dunwall.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Airship Ballet

[wesp5]

Nahh, never really been impressed by any Bioshock games. It's more like bemused frustration that such crappy writing can be considered decent because it isn't another 'Murica Vs The World story. Besides, it's not severe, just critical. You can shine an ounce of common sense on it and see how riddled the narrative is. I think what makes it particularly frustrating is how emblematic it is of the AAA crowd. It's such simple gorbij, yet it was hailed as the dawn of a new age of narrative, same for BS1. All that had was a plot twist and binary morality, seriously no idea why it wowed so many.

 

I couldn't have wrote that better and I agree to your other postings as well! The whole multiverse stuff is a joke and the game would have been a whole lot better if it had ended when they crashed near the Rapture entrance. Also I agree with Lux that Columbia including its NPCs is just a lifeless static stage play backdrop for the strange narrative told through short sequences and optional audios between endless repeating fire fights. Even the empty city of nuThief appears more real than Columbia-Disney-Land and almost ten years ago games like Bloodlines could already represent a living world better! It also seems to me that Levine used the same twist of the "good" guy turning out to be the bad one in all of his games. Topping it of in Bioshock Infinite where the player is it himself!

 

But I disagree with everyone here glorifiying SS2 and DX. In my opinion both are a little bit overrated! Maybe people who played SS1 just had to love SS2, but coming from HL, to me it was a fake world with disintegrating weapons, ammo dispensers, endless spawning enemies, unrealistic maze like levels, endless backtracking and no alive NPC to meet, which got old very fast! And while the multiple-approach-dogma of DX was great, the narrative was almost as confusing as that of Bioshock and many maps were just too obviously constructed for the gameplay with always a vent where you need one. To me it is obvious that nuThief was developed by the same studio that created the recent DX games. If you want to sneak around most easily, just look for a convenient vent nearby!

Edited April 14, 2014 by wesp5

[Melan]

System Shock 2's problems were wide-ranging and glaringly obvious, and Deus Ex was also far from the flawless masterpiece it is sometimes elevated to. Even more disappointing, then, that instead of improving on the recipe, modern games have regressed in their design, or produced half-hearted compromises.

[Airship Ballet]

I was never too hot on either. My main issue with SS was the endless enemies and the ridiculous level design. With Deus Ex, it was the skill system that gave you a gun before you knew how to fire it anywhere other than your own face. I can't appreciate System Shock as fully as it deserves thanks to memories of running around in circles and having my heart sink when I realised I was back where I started. Strangely I didn't have that problem with Silent Hill despite spending far, far longer doing just that. I suppose SS is lacking something SH isn't, in that case. Deus Ex gave you sweet, sweet freedom yet made you a complete incompetent to make up for it. As well as that it was really lacking feedback. I remember aggroing a building full of friendly NPCs without ever touching a gun. That, as well as sneaking through some air vents to the other side, only to find every enemy in the building with guns trained on the opening. I would've loved to know why but, due to its nature, it's really unresponsive.

 

[Merry's Slightly Tangential and Highly Redundant Wall of Text™]

Still, quirks like those add to the charm and make them what they are. Neither Dishonored nor Bioshock Infinite had any semblance of charm or personality for me. I think it's the huge tooltips and other blaring meta elements that always took me out of it. I get a sort of nostalgic satisfaction when I think of most old games, but some very recent games have been able to pack themselves with character. They don't have to be moody either, because while Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma had their own distinct flavors in my mind, so does Metal Gear Rising, and that was hardly trying to immerse the player. I haven't been able to consider any AAA release as anything other than a game for a long time, and that seriously sucks. It's safe to say they're no longer interested in making games people will remember as having an atmosphere and a personality to them, but rather want to make it as accessible as possible. Their games will be inoffensive and unadventurous, and at the same time break what little immersion they manage at every other corner with tooltips reminding me of bog-standard keyboard and mouse controls.

 

Edited April 14, 2014 by Airship Ballet

[wesp5]

Neither Dishonored nor Bioshock Infinite had any semblance of charm or personality for me. I think it's the huge tooltips and other blaring meta elements that always took me out of it.

 

I agree with you again, worst of all for me is the UI of nuThief which doesn't at all fit into the gameworld atmosphere with its modern minimalistic design! And I won't switch it off because otherwise I'll be jumping all over the place to find the one location where I can climb something or I'll get lost in a big grey city where everything looks much too similar to me as well. TDM does this much better, especially how the readables are implemented to keep the player inside the world without need to switch to some modern journal.

Edited April 14, 2014 by wesp5

[Airship Ballet]

I'm just amazed that Scaleform isn't industry standard yet.

[Lux]

I'm trying to get through Bioshock 2 now but the game is randomly crashing ~10-15 minutes. Sometimes it occurs when I quicksave so I've been using the Menu Save which seems to have alleviated that. Other times it crashes when I play an unread audio log. Other times it crashes the instant a door opens. There's always/usually some triggered event that just starts occuring when it crashes. Its pretty f*cking annoying.

 

Playing via Steam so should be the latest patched version. Not using old saves, started a new game. The Windows LIVE stuff is no longer present so its not that.

 

Tried running Game in Vista compat mode, have disabled all unused audio devices. Tried turning texture detail to Medium. Have not tried the "-dx9" launch flag yet. Disabled new "Reverb" option in Game Audio settings.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Win 7x64, 8GB ram, gtx780 w/334.89 drivers 4x MSAA forced in game, creative Z series with latest drivers, 5.1 audio in game (tried Prologic setting too).

 

The crashes "seem" related to audio but there's no real way to know. Seems like its always a triggered event, door opening, unread audio log, just before the sound clip plays for the event, crash.

 

Last crash was during a fight with a Big Daddy.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Lux