Model Request: Furniture covered in sheets

Atheran · August 19, 2014

As an update I have internet access for the following week or so and I got a 15 day trial (one of 4 I can get with my mails) for Marvelous Designer. I try to learn it so I'll eventually sell clothes etc at the Daz store. This program has some great cloth physics and I thought I could help with it. I'm not sure if there are any licencing problems (not my kind of thing to try and understand law) so if any of the mods thinks it wouldn't matter I could give it a try to create some realistic sheets on the already existing furniture. After all I'll spend this week to learn how to use the program anyways and sheets on furniture are way easier than rigged clothes for characters.

But because I'm on my laptop at the moment I don't have TDM or DR in it or even a way to turn lightwave models to obj. I have Maya LT, Zbrush and PS only. So ifthe licencing is ok and you people want me to give it a try I'd need some obj files of furniture to work with. If noone can mail or dropbox the obj's then I hope I at least gave you an idea of an excelent software for that kind of job

Bikerdude · August 19, 2014

They are all on .lwo atm, can may import lightwave model files..? or do I need to convert to .obj..?

Atheran · August 19, 2014

It supports .obj/collada/.fbx for imports. And it only exports in .obj

Melan · August 19, 2014

For the immediate future, they're for Biker and Melan's mission that I'm helping with, so they're the folks that have final say.

They are quite good as they are IMO.

Bikerdude · August 19, 2014

Fair enough, maybe make this a future request then.

Atheran · August 20, 2014

I decided to post an example of what I could do. These are simple renders with no material, no texture, no normal maps no nothing. Just the sofa and the cover with no editing by me. I just generated the cover in MD imported it to Zbrush for a 1click retopo and then to Maya for the renders.

MD generated mesh is around 30k polys and the retopo'ed version is at 1.5k polys. The sofa is just an obj I grabbed for free from tf3dm.com for a quick test and not mine.

High Poly generated cover on top of the sofa.

Low Poly cover on top of sofa.

The sofa alone.

Three renders of the Low Poly cover from different angles.

This took me around 4 minutes to make the cover generate the low poly version and render. I believe that with some added work on Zbrush and by playing with the cloth attributes a bit we can get impressive results. The more polygons in the mesh created in MD the more realistic physics we can get. In this mesh I had the density of the polys at 25mm. But I also believe that there's a fine line in simulating the physics in MD and decimating in Zbrush, simply because we'll loose a ton of good physics details if we drop the polygon count from 300k to 1.5k but with the texture maps on top of it even a bad simulation of 30k polys can produce a good looking 1k-1.5k asset.

PS. I used satin as a material in the simulation. If you prefer wool or whatever tell me and I'll pm you the renders.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Atheran

**Springheel** · August 20, 2014

Cloth dynamics are pretty damn cool. Wish I could get them to work properly.

Atheran · August 20, 2014

Could give you some tutorials for maya but I highly doubt they'll help you in lightwave or blender or whatever modeling software you use

EDIT to avoid spamming posts. I tried to do it in Maya but the MD physics turn out to be WAY better by default. I got much worse results with 1.5k polygon cover in Maya nCloth. I could post a screeny from maya if anyone wants to but I don't think it's needed. Thing is that with Maya I avoid doing any decimating in Zbrush

Edited August 20, 2014 by Atheran

Bikerdude · August 20, 2014

@Atheran, if I can give you some models in .obj format can you create complementory sheet model to go over them..?

Atheran · August 20, 2014

@Atheran, if I can give you some models in .obj format can you create compmenteerly sheet model to go over them..?

Can't say I understand the bolted text but substracting that the short answer is yes.

The long answer is depends on what you want. Polycount/texture/normals/physics simulation all of those account to that. A basic sheet cover like the one I posted at around 1.5k polygons with a simple diffuse map is easy and fast. But texturing is not my strong point so if you want a specific kind of cloth with texture details in normal map is harder for me. As for simulating physics on cloths I have a dozen or so preset cloths (leather, satin, wool etc) which are all a simple click to apply to the mesh. If you want something specific that is not in this list I have some reading to do on how this cloth behaves in real world to simulate it and that requires time.

And as of right now I'm on my old laptop so there are some technical problems. For example I doubt I'll be able to generate a 4k normal map and from experience I know it's limit on simulating the cloth is at 3mil polygons. It won't matter for the whole modeling part but I won't be able to give you extremelly physically accurate results. More or less the end result will be like the renders posted above for the model as far as realistic physics are considered.

I'd say I'll give it a try for a couple models first and if you're satisfied with the end result you can give me more. Else I'll be able to do a much better job at it in a month or so when I get back to my pc and have much more tools and power at my disposal.

Bikerdude · August 20, 2014

Sorry, meant to type "complementory" and if your sheet models above are anything to go by its all good.

Atheran · August 20, 2014

Well then... PM a dropbox link or something with the obj's and I'll try to get 'em done asap (if any specific requests on cloth type or textures etc tell me)

Atheran · August 21, 2014

Well I found a way to turn lwo formats to obj. Or well... I think so. Thing is there are half a dozen different obj types. I used the commonly known Wavefront obj. I hope I didn't loose much info.

I tried exporting a model from tdm_models01.pk4 to try the whole procedure to turn it to obj, generate the cloth,decimate it, some quick renders. I used armchair01 model for it. Below are some of the renders (this time as attachments to avoid slowing down the thread loading). Problem I found is that the curves generated in the cloth were too many in this model and decimating to 1.3k destroys the quality

If someone can test it (I can't) tell me to turn it to lwo again and dropbox it to you to see how it works in DR.

I also added a render of the high poly mesh for comparison.

Bikerdude · August 21, 2014

They look awesone, but -

could you reduce the amount of ripples/creases...?
and reduce the size of the sheet so hardly any of it is drapoped on the floor..?

If you can link me .LWO version of the models with the full material(darkmod) path I can test them in DR/TDM for you ^_^

Atheran · August 21, 2014

Theoretically I could by changing the cloth parameters but I can't increase/decrease them in real time. I could try but not sure if the laptop can handle it. What you mean about the material? How do you want it? I don't see any .mtl or any other material related ones in my pk4. Could you give me an example to see how you want this material/textures etc?

As for the sheet draping on the floor there are two ways I can do it. The fast one is simply resizing it and the more detailed one is changing it's layout. Right now is simply a squished square over the chair

Edited August 21, 2014 by Atheran

Bikerdude · August 21, 2014

Theoretically I could by changing the cloth parameters but I can't increase/decrease them in real time. I could try but not sure if the laptop can handle it.
What you mean about the material? How do you want it? I don't see any .mtl or any other material related ones in my pk4. Could you give me an example to see how you want this material/textures etc?

At a guess if we look at RL, if a fabric is slightly thicker and less flexable it would would theoretically have less ripples/creases..?
for the purpoises of just having the right texture so the model can be used in the darkmod, we can just deal with the texture paths and these textures are in the "tdm_textures_fabric01.pk4" file.

- textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/cloth_plain_creased_white_dull

or

- textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/cloth_plain_grey_light

but if you wanted to use a new sheet texture we would have to make a material definition for it, eg -

The path for the sheet texture above -


Would be change to -

[code]
textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/my_custom_sheet_texture
{

surftype15
description "cloth"
forceShadows

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_ed
diffusemap	  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
bumpmap	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_local
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   gl_dst_color, gl_one
	map		 _white
	rgb		 0.40 * parm11
}
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   add
	map		  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
	rgb		 0.15 * parm11
}
// TDM Ambient Method Related
{	  
 if (global5 == 1)
 blend add  
 map	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
 scale   1, 1
 red	global2
 green   global3
 blue   global4
}	  
{	  
 if (global5 == 2)
 blend add  
 program ambientEnvironment.vfp
 vertexParm  0  1, 1, 1, 1  // UV Scales for Diffuse and Bump
 vertexParm  1  1, 1, 1, 1 // (X,Y) UV Scale for specular
 vertexParm  2  global2, global3, global4, 1

 fragmentMap  0  cubeMap env/gen1  
 fragmentMap  1  textures/darkmod/fabric/cloth_plain_creased_local   // Bump  
 fragmentMap  2  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture   // Diffuse  
 fragmentMap  3  _black																		// Specular  ('_black' is used because in this instance sheets dont normally have any specular)
}

}

Would then change to -

textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/my_custom_sheet_texture
{

surftype15
description "cloth"
forceShadows

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_ed
diffusemap	  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
bumpmap	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_local
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   gl_dst_color, gl_one
	map		 _white
	rgb		 0.40 * parm11
}
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   add
	map		  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
	rgb		 0.15 * parm11
}
// TDM Ambient Method Related
{	  
 if (global5 == 1)
 blend add  
 map	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
 scale   1, 1
 red	global2
 green   global3
 blue   global4
}	  
{	  
 if (global5 == 2)
 blend add  
 program ambientEnvironment.vfp
 vertexParm  0  1, 1, 1, 1  // UV Scales for Diffuse and Bump
 vertexParm  1  1, 1, 1, 1 // (X,Y) UV Scale for specular
 vertexParm  2  global2, global3, global4, 1

 fragmentMap  0  cubeMap env/gen1  
 fragmentMap  1  textures/darkmod/fabric/cloth_plain_creased_local  // Bump  
 fragmentMap  2  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture   // Diffuse  
 fragmentMap  3  _black			 // Specular  ('_black' is used because in this instance sheets dont normally have any specular)
}

}

Atheran · August 21, 2014

And these are premade texture files? Or materials? Wish we had a chat button in these forums

While I do have some basic understanding of coding I'm too afraid to play with it here. I'd better leave it to someone else I guess

Let me play a bit with cloth properties to get something good looking and I'll use a premade texture/material. If someone wants to change that feel free to do so. Do you want me to simply give you the texture's name or the files in the correct path?

By the way I have to ask. Do we use triangles or quads?

EDIT: This one used leather as a material for simulation purposes. Not really physically accurate as the covers would be either satin or cotton depending on the family riches but it achieved less folds on the cloth. The mesh is in triangles. Also the sheet is not a square anymore to avoid drapping on the floor and ALSO avoid half the chair not covered by it as it happened when I simply shrunk the square cloth I had before.

EDIT AGAIN!: Seems like I'm missing the whole path to those textures you mention. I don't have a shadowable subfolder.

tdm_textures_fabric01.pk4\textures\darkmod\fabric\ this is what I have. Insinde the fabric folder I have only textures. I have the cloth_plain_creased_white_dull and cloth_plain_creased_grey_light but not the shadowable folder.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Atheran

Bikerdude · August 21, 2014

I'll drop you a PM.

Atheran · August 21, 2014

That's the last one I made trying to get bigger and less folds than before. Thing is... I don't like it

Alright I stop now until I get things settled with Biker. Hopefully then I'll know what I'm doing

At 6k polys it looks awsome. No matter what I do at 1.4k polys it's ugly.

**Springheel** · August 21, 2014

Are you using the high poly model to make a normal map? There's no way to make something like this look good without one.

Atheran · August 21, 2014

Not yet. And while it'll sure make a difference I doubt it'll be able to hide those ugly edges successfully. Gonna try it right now tho' and will post the results

Atheran · August 21, 2014

I don't know what happened but besides a huge headache thanks to Springheel (I hate working with normals) I got these renders from the low poly model.

I either did someething by mistake or MD provides normals as well (which would be awsome). After an hour of cursing I just flipped the normals of my low poly and everything looked awsome

Now I just have to find a friggin' way to export those maps

Bikerdude · August 21, 2014

Ah now thats more like it mister, that was what I was refering to earlier - perfect! If you can export these for me to try out that woykd be most welcome!

Thanks again for doing this.

Atheran · August 21, 2014

I'm on mobile now so I'll edit this later.

That last render uses no texture or normal maps. I just tweaked the polygon normals so it looks like that on low poly. I know that obj retains this info and works on most engines like UDK or Unity bit I don't know if converting obj to lwo will retain this info or even if DR can use it on rendering objects.

I'll send you the model converted in lightwave when I get back home so you see if it works. If Not I have lots of work to do with the dreaded normal maps.

Obsttorte · August 22, 2014

At a guess if we look at RL, if a fabric is slightly thicker and less flexable it would would theoretically have less ripples/creases..?
for the purpoises of just having the right texture so the model can be used in the darkmod, we can just deal with the texture paths and these textures are in the "tdm_textures_fabric01.pk4" file.

- textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/cloth_plain_creased_white_dull

or

- textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/cloth_plain_grey_light

but if you wanted to use a new sheet texture we would have to make a material definition for it, eg -

The path for the sheet texture above -


Would be change to -

[code]
textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/my_custom_sheet_texture
{

surftype15
description "cloth"
forceShadows

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_ed
diffusemap	  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
bumpmap	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_local
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   gl_dst_color, gl_one
	map		 _white
	rgb		 0.40 * parm11
}
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   add
	map		  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
	rgb		 0.15 * parm11
}
// TDM Ambient Method Related
{	  
 if (global5 == 1)
 blend add  
 map	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
 scale   1, 1
 red	global2
 green   global3
 blue   global4
}	  
{	  
 if (global5 == 2)
 blend add  
 program ambientEnvironment.vfp
 vertexParm  0  1, 1, 1, 1  // UV Scales for Diffuse and Bump
 vertexParm  1  1, 1, 1, 1 // (X,Y) UV Scale for specular
 vertexParm  2  global2, global3, global4, 1

 fragmentMap  0  cubeMap env/gen1  
 fragmentMap  1  textures/darkmod/fabric/cloth_plain_creased_local   // Bump  
 fragmentMap  2  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture   // Diffuse  
 fragmentMap  3  _black																		// Specular  ('_black' is used because in this instance sheets dont normally have any specular)
}

}

Would then change to -

textures/darkmod/fabric/shadowable/my_custom_sheet_texture
{

surftype15
description "cloth"
forceShadows

qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_ed
diffusemap	  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
bumpmap	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture_local
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   gl_dst_color, gl_one
	map		 _white
	rgb		 0.40 * parm11
}
{
	if ( parm11 > 0 )
	blend	   add
	map		  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
	rgb		 0.15 * parm11
}
// TDM Ambient Method Related
{	  
 if (global5 == 1)
 blend add  
 map	textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture
 scale   1, 1
 red	global2
 green   global3
 blue   global4
}	  
{	  
 if (global5 == 2)
 blend add  
 program ambientEnvironment.vfp
 vertexParm  0  1, 1, 1, 1  // UV Scales for Diffuse and Bump
 vertexParm  1  1, 1, 1, 1 // (X,Y) UV Scale for specular
 vertexParm  2  global2, global3, global4, 1

 fragmentMap  0  cubeMap env/gen1  
 fragmentMap  1  textures/darkmod/fabric/cloth_plain_creased_local  // Bump  
 fragmentMap  2  textures/darkmod/fabric/my_custom_sheet_texture   // Diffuse  
 fragmentMap  3  _black			 // Specular  ('_black' is used because in this instance sheets dont normally have any specular)
}

}

Just to make you aware of this biker, but the enviromental lighting method corresponding to global5==2 (the last part of the material definition using the shader program) is not used in TDM anymore.

@ Atheran: I may get you wrong, bu if you are talking about physics, would you be able to create hanging curtains that can be moved, for example if an AI or the player walks through it? I'm speaking of ragdolls/articulated figures to be more precise.

Model Request: Furniture covered in sheets

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