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TTlg: they still need reminding...


Bikerdude

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Bikerdude, TDM missions don't belong in TTLG forums because they are not Thief FMs. TDM missions are TDM missions, and all discussion about them should be in TDM forums. Thief FMs are Thief FMs and should be discussed in the (TTLG) Thief FM forums.

Er...this comment just validates this thread's existance...

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I tried to be "nice" in these forums. I was wrong to assume so.

 

Bikerdude, TDM missions don't belong in TTLG forums because they are not Thief FMs. TDM missions are TDM missions, and all discussion about them should be in TDM forums. Thief FMs are Thief FMs and should be discussed in the (TTLG) Thief FM forums.

 

How can you NOT get that?

 

Yeah, I'm out now. Hate all you want, haters.

 

Well, the admins at TTLG don't feel that way. TDM missions belong wherever the admins feel they belong.

 

We had originally asked to have our own sub-forum for TDM missions at TTLG, but as it turns out the majority of forum users expected our missions to be in the Thief FM's forum. So the admins merged them back.

 

Don't know what the haters comment is about, because nobody is hating on anyone.

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I tried to be "nice" in these forums. I was wrong to assume so.

 

Bikerdude, TDM missions don't belong in TTLG forums because they are not Thief FMs. TDM missions are TDM missions, and all discussion about them should be in TDM forums. Thief FMs are Thief FMs and should be discussed in the (TTLG) Thief FM forums.

 

How can you NOT get that?

 

Yeah, I'm out now. Hate all you want, haters.

 

I'm not sure where the haters response is coming from either. All I can say is that I have an abiding suspicion that some of the negativity

that crops up from time to time happens too coincidentally to when TDM and TDS are compared. I'll say again that I suspect shills in these

cases since any TDP\TMA fan mission player would be crazy to "hate" what this project offers.

 

I do agree, however, that there should be a TDM specific subsection at TTLG and I would argue that T1, T2, T3, and T4 should all be separate.

It's just easier to get to the content you want by having more classification.

 

The problems there are twofold:

 

1) Mission authors like to post where the action is happening so leaving the T2 forums would be a little disheartening.

2) The smaller number of posts in the other forums would make TTLG itself look more like a ghost-town.

 

So it's mostly about emotional impact and promotion rather than practicality. I think reddit solves this sort of thing

by allowing you to customize views of new posts so that all the stuff you want just shows up as your default view then

you can always go to sub-reddits where deeper exploration of a sub-topic can take place. The problem with reddit

being the turf wars over views and votes leads to a lot of gaming thread popularity so you often lose valuable content

to reposts and nonsense.

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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I think even if the TTLG threads aren't getting comments, which are dominated first by questions on how to make progress that people would logically expect to find on our threads here before TTLG, they anyway serve the useful purpose of bringing the silent mass of players' attention to the releases so they can download them. That's reason enough to be content with the TTLG announcement threads, quiet though they are compared to here.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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The problem with reddit

being the turf wars over views and votes leads to a lot of gaming thread popularity so you often lose valuable content

to reposts and nonsense.

Also it's hard to find stuff that has been posted in the past because reddit's search function is shit. Not to mention terrible, terrible reddit culture. Pun threads galore.

You can call me Phi, Numbers, Digits, Ratio, 16, 1618, or whatever really, as long as it's not Phil.

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"Haters"?? I can't find anything even "mildly antagonistic".

 

Don't know what the haters comment is about, because nobody is hating on anyone.

 

I think what he means is "I'm buggering off now so you can post angry replies if you want but I won't be around to read them".

 

But I could be wrong. The word "hate" is thrown around so meaninglessly these days that it could refer to almost anything.

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It's interesting that he felt he had to "try" to be nice on these forums. As if it was a struggle. It indicates there was acrimony before he even logged on. Some people are gonna be like that, I guess, but I still say the larger majority of Thief fans are absolutely 100% on board with everything TDM.

Edited by brethren
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It's interesting that he felt he had to "try" to be nice on these forums.

That's the important part to pick up on. You get this a lot: someone acts as if they're extending an olive branch by mingling with another community. People who get very into whatever community they belong to can, with a certain type of brain chemistry, see animosity where it doesn't exist. They then go back to their forum and are like "ohhhh, those guys over at X forums, what a bunch of bastards, I tried to reason with them but they just wouldn't have it." It seems logical to them because they've been assuming hostility for ages, and then mistake the first straw for the final one and go off in a huff claiming that they tried their best to communicate with the savages.

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Some people are gonna be like that, I guess, but I still say the larger majority of Thief fans are absolutely 100% on board with everything TDM.

Admittedly i haven't been on TTLG for a while, but the way it used to be, quite a few people there weren't ok with anything except Thief 1 & 2. And in the case of Thief 2 even with exceptions, as it featured a lot of stuff, like the setting, which seemed to differ too much to what those people felt was a decent "Thief experience". What i never will understood about that kind of "cult" thing is why every slight change will break something for these people. Especially considering there's a lot about the original Thief games which seems very dated nowadays... and what stuff like TDM does a holy lot better. But again, it's different, so... :P

 

That said IMO, Thief 1 & 2 have a unique atmosphere which even TDM can hardly capture. Neither can TDS, but like TDM, it's nice in its own right.

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I can relate. I am still not fully OK with Thief 2. ;)

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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I was not stone cold serious, but...

 

I think aesthetics, story and level design were all below the standards set by Thief 1. Thief 1 is a game where everything came together perfectly; the sequel is still an excellent game, but it doesn't quite capture The Dark Project's iconic status. Thief 2 grew into its own through the efforts of the community, but as its own thing, it has a lot of flaws which bring it down a notch.

 

The real issue, though, is that gaming went into a nosedive in the 2000s, and games like Thief, Deus Ex and System Shock were not a stage to something even greater, but a sort of wave that came and went. The state of gaming is such that we are happy if we get half-hearted compromises.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Well, as far as i read, Deus Ex was quite exceptional in the meaning that basically, the dev's weren't at all under time, or budget pressure, and could just do "their thing". Which should be why it's such a great game, because if you can do what you like to do, and have all freedom in development, and you're talented, the outcome is pretty sure to be good. :) I think pretty much any other project has got to live with the compromises you talked about. Especially nowadays where financing a game project isn't an easy task really as it seems... that's why we see all those more or less sure to be a financial success stuff with only half heart and half creativity put in it. I see many parallels with hollywood flicks where the lack of ideas is even more obvious. Still, there are some pearls nowadays like Dishonored, and some more commercialls successful stuff like Elder Scrolls and GTA, where every part is sure to be a success, and the devs probably can work under less pressure to be succesful.

Edited by chakkman
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Yes, that kind of artistic freedom is what creates things like Deus Ex... and Daikatana. One of the most beloved and one of the most mocked games -- same company, same time period. :)

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, as far as i read, Deus Ex was quite exceptional in the meaning that basically, the dev's weren't at all under time, or budget pressure, and could just do "their thing". Which should be why it's such a great game, because if you can do what you like to do, and have all freedom in development, and you're talented, the outcome is pretty sure to be good. :) I think pretty much any other project has got to live with the compromises you talked about. Especially nowadays where financing a game project isn't an easy task really as it seems... that's why we see all those more or less sure to be a financial success stuff with only half heart and half creativity put in it. I see many parallels with hollywood flicks where the lack of ideas is even more obvious. Still, there are some pearls nowadays like Dishonored, and some more commercialls successful stuff like Elder Scrolls and GTA, where every part is sure to be a success, and the devs probably can work under less pressure to be succesful.

 

Exactly.

 

This is why TDM is fantastic and will only get better and why I LOVE it. Because the developers and mappers are doing it because they LOVE doing it and there are no real time frames or hidden agendas (only in the missions)hehe, Meaning only those things in life that we are passionate about have our true interest of time.

 

I played thief 2 TMA way before I played thief 1 TDP although I seem to recall a demo I may have played, and I have to say I prefer T2 over T1 only because of the engine enhancements enabling larger environments and better graphics and the more sandbox type feel of T2, Having said that I think the plots and stories in T1 are better realised in the story telling.

 

All in all T2 is still my #1 game of all time except for DeusX and Carmageddon and Leisure suit Larry LFS and .....Sorry Melan still not fully ok with T2 What tha da bcvh ##@^ mmmmah oh ok.

Edited by Tr00pertj

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  • 4 weeks later...

The thief side of that forum is dying a slow death, the last batch of T1/2 FMs were basic in the extreme and masters like DrK have pretty much put their projects on hold.That and there were only 6 replies to the Talbot thread and I then recently getting told to stop mentioning people should try Darkradiant, mean't its time for me atleast, to cut ties and move on.

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I can fully understand that experienced mappers don't want to switch to another toolset and learn everything again from scratch. There is not that much of a benefit in doing that. The Dark Mod is not clearly superiour to Thief; it's better in some ways, but Thief beats it in others. I'm not sure which is more popular now but I get the impression that it is Thief.

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For my part I'm glad there are mappers for both TDM and still for Thief.

 

Both games have the same roots and about stealth, but are different in various aspects. With different I do not mean 'better' or 'worse'. One may enjoy the things better in TDM. Others still like some benefits of Thief. That'S true for mappers and players alike. And also just a matter of taste. For anyone into both it's a bless.

 

I agree with Baal why veteran Thief mappers are reluctant to switch toolset. To add to that most of the still active Thief veteran mappers like DrK, Yandros or Lady Rowena are years into dromed working of their magnus opus. I have the imprerssion they will be burned and retire if they manage to finish their WIPs. Not that I would like to see that. Many of the other experienced and legendary Thief authors moved on long time ago or got professional ...

 

So as a player it's great both games have dedicated mappers. As a mapper I made my choice using DR for some reasons. But I see why most Thief mappers are still comfortable using dromed now newDark exist. I think it is rather a loss if excellent Thief FM's releases seam to become rare. And I'm glad that people like Skacky still carrying the torch of Thief Gold FM's. Even it meant he did cease mapping for TDM.

 

Regard TDM FM's I see really no problem most Thief mappers stick to dromed. We have plenty excellent TDM mappers on board. Both veterans and people learning the bells and whistles of DR. What is not to like If TDM see 4-6 maps in the quality of the last years :-)

 

 

 

"To rush is without doubt the most important enemy of joy" ~ Thieves Saying

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