Bounce lights and the light gem:

[Bikerdude]

Myself and Baal have extensively used BounceLights in our WIP, the problem is that while they create superior lighting mood they effect the LG when we would rather they didn't.

 

So my question is: Is there an arg or a script that can be applied to these BL's to stop them effecting the lightgem..?

[nbohr1more]

The lightgem is a specialized screenshot so anything that lights the player model will have an effect on it. The only workaround I can see is projecting

the bounce lights from behind the wall instead of in front of it so that the radius doesn't extend too far beyond the surface they affect.

 

I guess you could use the lightgem modifier to lower the overall light level perceived by the gem.

[Bikerdude]

I guess you could use the lightgem modifier to lower the overall light level perceived by the gem.

Nice idea, but maybe be fiddly to setup.

[SteveL]

I can't see any convenient hacks in the current code. It would be an easy spawnarg to add for 2.04 if you think it'd be useful.

[Bikerdude]

It would be an easy spawnarg to add for 2.04 if you think it'd be useful.

Yes please, because BL's when placed correctly (NS, touching only some surfaces) really add atmosphere to a scene for next to nothing perf hit.

[HMart]

 

 

I guess you could use the lightgem modifier to lower the overall light level perceived by the gem.

 

Will not that affect too much the gameplay? Has it the potential to make us invisible to the guards even tho we are on a light?

[Baal]

It is ok if they ffect the lightgem, but the player should be able to judge how much by the effect on the environment. A constant or linear falloff could work with that, so that the center isn't much brighter than the lit surfaces.

[Bikerdude]

A constant or linear falloff could work with that, so that the center isn't much brighter than the lit surfaces.

Are you saying we can do that or you 'would' like that..?

[nbohr1more]

You could change the LightFalloffImage texture to something that has a linear falloff in the material def, I think he means?

[Baal]

Yes. Never tried that, though.

[Bikerdude]

You could change the LightFalloffImage texture to something that has a linear falloff in the material def, I think he means?

Yes. Never tried that, though.

Ah yes a quick and dirty work around for now.

[New Horizon]

 

Will not that affect too much the gameplay? Has it the potential to make us invisible to the guards even tho we are on a light?

 

Only if the mapper used an insanely high setting. I had suggested a spawnarg to allow for additional lights like this to be adjusted since situations like this came up in the original Thief games too. The mappers in T3 for example were able to give some of their ambient lights use for set dressing a 'weight' on the light gem. So if needed, they could turn a light up slightly and then dial back it's effect on the lightgem...just so a particular area wouldn't be too hard.

[Springheel]

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a "BounceLight" is?

[nbohr1more]

Just an ambient light that simulates the look of light bouncing from another light source.

[Bikerdude]

bouncing from another light source.

Primarily another from a surface that another light source is hitting, eg moonlight on a floor would create a glow on a nearby wall or furniture. And secondarily from something like a fireplace where some objects would have some slight specular or diffuse from said fireplace.

[grayman]

Why would you expect bounce lights to not affect the LG?

 

If they're strong enough to contribute a glow to a chair or a wall or floor, why wouldn't they add the same glow to the player's surfaces?

[Baal]

They should, but with the way the lights work in the doom engine, they are very bright at their center but decrease in intensity outwards. This leads to situations where the lightgem lights up but every surrounding surface is dark.

[grayman]

Have you tried setting your bounce lights to be 'ambient'?

 

Ambient lights should contribute a consistent illumination value regardless of how far away they are from the light source.

 

Set the spawnarg on the light and see if it makes a difference:

 

"texture" "lights/ambientlightnfo"

[Baal]

It wouldn't look as good without the specular portion. And we already use zone ambient.

 

The whole issue is not THAT important though. It's fine in most cases and you can get by without it. But where we use it, it looks damn good.

[AluminumHaste]

I really didn't have any issue finding dark spots to hide in, I don't think in this mission it's necessary.

[Springheel]

They should, but with the way the lights work in the doom engine, they are very bright at their center but decrease in intensity outwards.

 

Depends on the light texture you use. There are light textures with little or no falloff.

[demagogue]

I think it's a good idea to add a spawnarg to lights that make them not apply to the lightgem. Mappers are often trying to tune both gameplay and aesthetics, and since light affects both things, it'd be convenient to be able to put lights in for good aesthetics that didn't hit the LG for gameplay reasons.

[Baal]

Depends on the light texture you use. There are light textures with little or no falloff.

Yes, but there is another falloff from the center to the boundaries of the light volume. The projected light texture decreases in brightness the further away from the center it hits a surface.

[nbohr1more]

This is why I wish there were a 3d representation of the contents of a light volume that you could preview in Dark Radiant. Then you could clearly see each falloff type and precisely tune the location of the volume and light_center.

[SteveL]

I've added a tracker for the spawnarg: http://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=4128

 

This should probably be a yes/no flag rather than a scaling factor. There are already similar flags to stop weapons being drawn during the lightgem render pass, for example. We can add a corresponding one for lights.

 

EDIT: Looking over the thread again I see opinion on the spawnarg isn't unanimous. But it'll be trivial to add and won't complicate the setup, even if it's only useful to some.