Secret doors

[esme]

OK I know they are secret and therefore should be hidden, but there ought to be some clue that they are there, especially if they don't frob and are switch activated.

 

Wear marks on the floor from opening/closing, slight changes in colour, a break in the pattern, a seam round the edge, a footprint in the dust, something.

 

I've noticed in a couple of missions that secret doors blend seamlessly into the wall which is ok if it's following the pattern of the bricks or the seam coincides with a natural edge but in at least one I've seen a hidden door blends into solid stone without leaving any kind of seam or edge, sorry I can't remember which one.

 

Now I'm sorry, I don't care how good the architects of these places are supposed to be, if you have two pieces of stone, wood or metal there's going to be a boundary between them that can be seen, it might be faint but it'll be there and the player should be able to see it if they are paying attention.

 

Ok whining over, let the flaming commence.

[Bikerdude]

We don't do flaming here, but rather considered discussion instead.

[Melan]

This is sensible advice, so listen and plan accordingly.

[Baal]

I agree with the OP. Secrets of all kinds need to be hinted at, without being obvious. So you can figure them out for yourself instead of stumbling into them by pure luck (or not finding them at all).

[Sotha]

This is correct. Hidden doors should always have a clue. Either a local one (seams on wall, scratch, sound of breeze, AI uses it); or a remote one ( a readable, a conversation.)

 

The clue can be as obscure as the mapper likes, but it has to be there.

[grayman]

Secret doors that are meant to be found and used by the player ought to have some hint on each side from which they can be opened.

 

There are secret doors in one of my missions that can't be opened from one side, and I feel no obligation to provide a hint that there's a door there.

 

In real life, artisans down through the ages have learned how to blend secret doors into their surroundings so only those in the know understand how to open them.

 

Gameplay, however, trumps real life.

 

But if you can only open the door from the other side, there's no reason to provide hints on this side. (Which doesn't mean you shouldn't, just that there's no obligation to do so. The decision is up to the mapper and the needs of the mission.)

[Springheel]

I would say that secret doors that are necessary to complete the mission need clues. Easter egg areas, not necessarily.

[demagogue]

T2 gave away secret doors automatically because objects and brushwork are lit differently, and maybe texture differently I don't know, but in Darkmod everything is lit & textured the same way. So it'd actually take some work for a mapper to make it shaded slightly different. I can't think how offhand.

 

FWIW, my secret was a moving bookshelf where you could see the safe behind it if you looked carefully enough. That's how I dealt with it.

[Obsttorte]

I would say that secret doors that are necessary to complete the mission need clues. Easter egg areas, not necessarily.

+1

 

Only secret doors which need to be opened to finish the mission need to be hinted. On all other doors, I would leave this up to the mapper. If you don't need to get to the place behind the door, it does no harm if you don't get there.

[Tr00pertj]

I had two in solarescape and I think bikerdude or someone else (sorry can't remember) in beta testing brought the issue of one door not having any indication or clue and suggested a dirty decal to show moisture entry. This worked really well. I think though that there should always be a clue somewhere in the mission if it's essential for an objective. In the end it's up to the mapper.

 

It was probably my mission that esme was referring to as I remember even with the decal it was hard to see without using the lantern.

[Bikerdude]

I think bikerdude or someone else (sorry can't remember) in beta testing brought the issue of one door not having any indication or clue and suggested a dirty decal to show moisture entry.

Probably me

[esme]

We don't do flaming here, but rather considered discussion instead.

I have to agree with this, TDM is definitely one of the more civilised forums I visit, please accept my apologies for the suggestion

 

And I honestly can't remember which mission it was so please don't assume it was yours, I've played most of the available ones and while some weren't quite to my taste, they were all damn good.

 

I take the point that IRL generations of artisans have become very good at hiding doors, but IRL we have tools for locating them we can touch them to feel for temperature differences, knock on the wall listening for the hollow sound or these days we use scanners, these things aren't usually available in a game world^* so some other technique needs to be available.

 

No problem with not providing an indication if the door can't be opened from this side, it stops the player wasting hours looking for the control to open it for a start.

 

Thank you to all the mappers for the missions to date, I really must get my finger out and have a go myself

 

^* - I have used the knock on walls trick in Thief to check if people hid doors as the entire surface of the wall & found a few secrets this way, doors make a noise, walls are silent

[Springheel]

I've never tried this, but I wonder if you could tell a secret door by listening? Leaning into a wall doesn't do anything, but leaning into a door allows you to hear beyond it. Even if there's no sound beyond the door, you still should notice a shift in sound if there is any noise around you.

[Obsttorte]

But this would only be of help if you have at least an idea where the secret door may be (and that there is one).

[Springheel]

True, I was just trying to come up with a TDM equivalent to the knock on walls trick.