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Fan Mission: Sir Talbot's Collateral by Baal & Bikerdude (15/04/2015)


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#26 Noordung

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 05:41 AM

Nice mission. Not so small and very detailed. Reading was good - not too long, lots of clues, found some of them before I read it.

Got 0 stealth score... but it was on easy. Anyway it is very good mission.

 

Maybe you could rerecord intro, sound is a bit bad, but pictures are nice.

And very nice background of city.

 

Have to play it a little more since is am still missing more than 400 loot and have to finish that optional, think I know where to find statue...



#27 Outlooker

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 10:05 AM

I'm bit in a hurry (partially because I oversplept having last night played through this).

With this mission I had more fun than with the whole Thief 4. I think that about says enough.

I really cannot find much at all that I did not like.

One of the  best things for me was that I - again like long ago in Thief - felt so much like an actual master thief, I guess because I really had to sneak, observe, hear and learn, and

my tools of the trade were limited (or rather fitting here  "optimised") for an actual thief, not a killer/KO-guy that jsut waltzes through getting rid of piles of guards.

Many missions seem to try this, but here it really fit together: The right amount of guards, realistic hiding spaces, being stealthy is rewarding; being forced to go full stealth in some missions

makes it seem like tedious work or at least a hassle, not so here - it was pure joy of gameplay and immersion.

The story binds it well together, motivating for a stealthy and "researching" approach by the "collateral" theme and the fun of getting some possible black mail material, without hurting

a future customer or his household/family.

Visually of course it was top notch. Very nice variation in environments: you really feel like being in a living city (by the well done town surroundings in the distance); then there is this nice garden, then the servants quarters,

mansion environment, sewers, cellars, secret and nicely dusty/cobwebbed attics/storage/house technical spaces, a secret lair, and the nice secret forbidden drugs-growing-greenhouse.

And everything sneak-friendly for the enterprising night-guest, without being too easy - without some thief skills one not gets far.

The size was "just right" - no danger of getting lost,yet  diverse enough to have a lot of fun exploring. Always feeling in control by having maps from the start.

Mantling and vertical spaces were very sneak-friendly: Many a time I evaded guards by sitting in the dark in the rafters or on furniture. Again a nice feeling of control here.

I could ghost the mission on epxert difficulty , having a stealth score of only 9; more use of moss-arrows would have made me even more perfect here; I am just a "saver", knowing not what awaits further in the

mission; next time I try to go perfect by dispensing all moss arrows. I got 1500 or so loot, which I see as a success; in reality, you would get most, but not all, too.

Ghosting was especially enjoyable because I could imagine being  successfully stealthy if  this environment was real, I did not use super powers or had to risk getting detected (and therefore killed) in many

places - carefully observing, listening and being patient would carry me safely through this map without being trivially easy by just  overly exploiting the light gem mechanic; i really HID and SNEAKED.

I liked the kind of newish aspect of proving your skills to a future employer, so you not just grab everything of value, but leave hints that shows you were there and could have easily stolen everything,

but didn't. Maybe because that was quite innovative and new, but anyway it felt at least a little more rewarding than just grabbing the valuables and then make oneself scarce.

While there were quite some keys, it was no lame keyhunt; most keys were clearly visibly paraded around like treats on belts, or hidden with clear hints in logical places.

I have no mapper's skilled eye, but about graphics, lighting etc.  I can see this: I never thought "bah, that looks much like it is constructed in an editor" - I went through the mission without getting

painfully remembered that it is "just" a map with textures and lights etc. - which probably means visuals were damn good.

 

The only very minor annoyance was my inabilty to get that rope arrow - I could not grab it from the garden, not by walking on the window ledge; stacking grates would maybe have helped, but seemed to much work, because

they were far away and would have needed to be transported through guard patroling space, so no rope arrow for me. Maybe I'll get that bugger in my nest playthrough.

 

This was a full-blown, exceptional  thief experience in the good old way. Many thanks for over two hours of great  enjoyment.


"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato
"When outmatched... cheat." Batman

#28 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 11:14 AM

This was a full-blown, exceptional  thief experience in the good old way. Many thanks for over two hours of great  enjoyment.

Your welcome, glad you had fun playing it.

 

Fyi some things are climable, like vines for example. And regarding a certain player tool/weapon, there is more than one of those to be found in the mission. But like the rest of the mission, this should be consider a minor/medium challenge... :ph34r:



#29 Obsttorte

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 12:07 PM

@Obsttorte

Thanks for taking the time to write all that. I'm going to reply later when I have more time.

 

But I get the impression that it could be a language problem. Did you read everything carefully? Everything is hinted at in the readables.

Spoiler

That's just my opinion, don't take it too harsh. And if it sounds so, that is definetely a language problem :D


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#30 Sir Taffsalot

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 12:43 PM

Simply a joy to play. Many thanks for all the time and effort that you put into this gentlemen.


"I believe that what doesn't kill you simply makes you... stranger"

The Joker

#31 Diego

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 03:19 PM

That was excellent! good job authors.
 
Here's some hopefully constructive criticism:
Spoiler


So thanks for the mission :) I had a blast. Don't worry about the wall of text above, I only do that when I really like something.

#32 Baal

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 03:43 AM

Thanks again to everyone giving criticism, positive or negative. We can take it.

 

@Obsttorte

Always complaining, that's typisch deutsch. :) But don't worry, we don't mind. I agree with some of your points. I am not entirely happy with the readables myself and the evidence pieces are indeed somewhat randomly (from the players point of view) placed. The mission requires the player to be observant, and not just for the side objectives. That's an important part of the gameplay that most people, not everybody, seem to like.

 

I don't agree to or understand your problems with the lighting. That's an aspect into which I put a lot of thought and effort. The harsh transitions between light and dark are fully intentional. I tried to make hiding spots clearly disinguishable and believable. You should always be able to judge visibility by the surrounding walls and floor. I thought we achieved this readability of the environment well enough.

 

@Diego

I like backtracking. But you are right in that an area can get tedious if you have to repeat it too often. But the map is pretty open and you have more than one way of proceeding most of the time.



#33 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 04:21 AM

I like backtracking. But you are right in that an area can get tedious if you have to repeat it too often. But the map is pretty open and you have more than one way of proceeding most of the time.

And I bet most of the players who have played so far havent found 'all' the nooks and cranies we built into this mission...



#34 id3839315

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 04:25 AM

Thank you for this excellent mission.

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm still wondering which ...

Spoiler


Edited by id3839315, 18 April 2015 - 04:26 AM.


#35 Noordung

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 04:51 AM

Thank you for this excellent mission.

Spoiler

I'm still wondering which ...

Spoiler

Spoiler



#36 DeusXIncognita

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 06:26 AM

Thanks for this mission.

Loaded it, because I somehow thought it was a small city mission (That screenshot on the main page was a bit misleading with all those houses visible), but besides that I wasn't disappointed at all.

 

The visuals are great, and every room forms a single small scene, thats great to watch and take in and explore.

 

Its also a nice change of pace, with a more realistic number of guards and inhabitants (Before that I played a mission that felt way too overcrowded), that make it challenging, but not trial and error hard to sneak around.

 

Nice objectives, different ways to plan your way around, i am quite pleased.

 

Some issues:

Spoiler

 

Overall a very satisfying experience


Edited by DeusXIncognita, 18 April 2015 - 06:27 AM.


#37 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:04 AM

Glad you guys like it.

 

On a different note, who ever voted for tolerable on gameplay needs their head examined...



#38 Atomic

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:16 AM

.


Edited by Atomic, 27 April 2015 - 07:19 PM.


#39 Baal

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:21 AM

Good to hear. Thank you.

 

On a different note, who ever voted for tolerable on gameplay needs their head examined...

Hey, I just wrote that we can take criticism. ;) But I'd like to hear what it was, that he/she didn't enjoy, too. Don't be shy.



#40 Oldjim

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:22 AM

@ DeusXIncognita

Alert

Spoiler



#41 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 12:18 PM

Hey, I just wrote that we can take criticism. ;) But I'd like to hear what it was, that he/she didn't enjoy, too. Don't be shy.

Im not being harsh, just more matter of fact. Ive seen T1/2/3 mission's with noticably worse gameplay that got a min of good. The gameplay in our mission is pure/classic thief, the best kind :-)



#42 161803398874989

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 01:03 PM

Im not being harsh, just more matter of fact

That's ridiculous. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


You can call me Phi, Numbers, Digits, Ratio, 16, 1618, or whatever really, as long as it's not Phil.

#43 Airship Ballet

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 01:20 PM

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

It's okay Biker: I think you're pretty.


Edited by Airship Ballet, 18 April 2015 - 01:20 PM.


#44 athalle

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 01:23 PM

Congrats to you both. I've spend a great time with your mission. I'm not gifted for criticism insofar as I frankly enjoy all the missions that I always receive as a gift.



#45 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 01:40 PM

That's ridiculous. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Eh? we are talking about gameplay, not visuals.

 



#46 Obsttorte

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 04:56 PM

But figuratively he is true ;)


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
My wiki articles: Obstipedia
Let's Map TDM YouTube playlist: ObstlerTube
Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

End of shameless self promotion.

#47 pwl

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 08:34 PM

I just finished man you guys made a GEM loved the story, visuals, and gameplay!! 

 

Had a couple of items that I picked up thinking they were loot and dropped them they then went through the shelf ?



#48 garette

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 12:28 AM

Where is the key to the chest in the "attic" above the library? I tried all the keys I had and the lock-picks, but could not open it.



#49 Baal

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 01:19 AM

Had a couple of items that I picked up thinking they were loot and dropped them they then went through the shelf ?

I'm not sure what's the best way to fix that. Maybe the moveables in question are too close to the surface they clip through when you frob them and the physics become active.

 

Where is the key to the chest in the "attic" above the library? I tried all the keys I had and the lock-picks, but could not open it.

Slight hint:

Spoiler

More:

Spoiler



#50 Bikerdude

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 03:54 AM

Had a couple of items that I picked up thinking they were loot and dropped them they then went through the shelf ?

Got a screenshot?






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