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#1 BBrutal

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 11:20 PM

I've been caught in a compelling discussion on Reddit.  Here, I'll link it:

 

https://www.reddit.c...game_developer/

 

I'd like to donate to this project, if you'll accept it, but judging by the fact that there is no donate button on the main page you folks must be doing this for the love of it.  If you won't take my donation, please allow me to send a heartfelt thank you!

 

I've played several missions on this mod, and I've even beaten a few of them.  You folks are doing great work.  Again, thank you.



#2 Melan

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:37 AM

Thank you! We do not take donations for both ethical and practical reasons, but we always appreciate comments - whether about the mod as a whole, individual missions, or (and they sometimes get too little credit) the assets and code which make it work.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#3 Hecateus

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 01:00 AM

probably the best thing would be to get as many new programmers and animation modelers involved as possible.  These two areas seem like the parts which need the most help.



#4 BBrutal

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 02:07 AM

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If I had the relevant skills, I would be eager to contribute.  As it stands, I'm simply an adoring fan.  I played some more of this mod tonight, and I'm just blown away by what you've all accomplished.  This is truly the successor to Thief that I've been waiting for.  Thanks guys, really awesome stuff.


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#5 Springheel

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:56 AM

Thanks!  As Melan said, we don't like to bring money into the equation, but thanks are greatly appreciated.  :)



#6 Byrgius

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 08:00 AM

You are an honorable team, that's what I want to say. I hope to see this as an actual game one day or even a proper Thief series sequel not something Eidos threw at us last time, presenting this genre in a false way. Best of luck!


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#7 demagogue

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 05:24 PM

As someone once said, we don't take donations in money, but we happily accept donations of time.

There are lots of ways to contribute ... most of all making an FM, then making assets (textures, models), doing fan art or writing fan fic, or commenting and being part of the community. We consider those kinds of things as donations.
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#8 Airship Ballet

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 05:38 AM

Give me a Patreon with a livable wage and I'll make a campaign a month.  :ph34r:


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#9 Epifire

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 05:33 PM

I'm not on the dev team, but were I payed I would basically work full time on my content (because screw crappy Walmart jobs). But yeah in order to donate money/receive funds you'd have to go from mod status to Indie.

 

And that's the other thing because with an Indie you start off knowing who's on the team, as they're legally hired onto a company however small or large it is. With a mod it's basically all up in the air as you get what help you can but everyone works on the basis that it's something you do on your own time. I'm getting into work here just because I'm actually wanting to make a career out of what I do. Naturally that would be elsewhere (the career part) but this is a great mod to gain experience on and a good team to work with.  ;)


Needing dem environment models?

 

Speak to the EPI!

 

Or rummage my online mesh repository instead...  https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7q1r8him1y63d/TDM%20Repository


#10 Deadlove

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 06:34 PM

Best donation is in the form of assets. Textures, models, sounds, etc.

 

But be forewarned some senior members on the team have a very narrow idea of what TDM is supposed to look/feel/sound like. 

So expect more than not for your attempt at contributing to be shot down.

 

Sorry, just being realistic, this is what I've seen in my time with the community.


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#11 Bikerdude

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 01:47 AM

And to follow on from DL's comment, we welcome new mappers also!



#12 demagogue

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 06:15 AM

But be forewarned some senior members on the team have a very narrow idea of what TDM is supposed to look/feel/sound like. 
So expect more than not for your attempt at contributing to be shot down.

This only applies to the core mod. IMO it's actually encouraged to make alternative assets for FMs to use.
You could make assets for a ninja FM, scifi, cartoonish, contemporary, or whatever weird aesthetic you can imagine, maybe for some crazy mansion or parallel world the player teleports to.

People should do what inspires them. Where they should manage expectations is what goes into the core set, since we've always have had strict-ish QA, well, we try to. But that's what's made TDM a great game. And it applies to everything. It's not like an arbitrary rule to scare off people. (Same goes for code or features.)

People should start with FM assets and features anyway just to learn how things work & do what they want without restrictions.
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#13 Melan

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 02:50 PM

Yeah, the core mod can seem like it is slow to adapt new things and fairly conservative, but on the other hand, unlike other mod communities, TDM is not known for its horse penis mods either.

Spoiler


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#14 Deadlove

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 06:26 PM

Just to clarify, I wasn't speaking in regard to any of my attempt at contributing. 

 

I remember some guy made a model for a monster for TDM and a lot of board members liked it, but someone who has a lot of pull and has been here a long time thought it didn't fit TDM and shot the guy down. He got disgruntled and left. Basically, there was a potential modeler, who knows how to model, spent time and energy creating something and instead of adopting his model to the core mod and letting authors use it or disregard it.

 

That was a skilled modeler who would've and could've helped in plenty of places that needed it, if the community gave him a little appreciation for his attempt at contributing, and helped point him in the right direction. I'm sure SH would like a hand with modeling, and it would greatly benefit the mod. Telling people who are enthusiastic that there contribution is of no worth is throwing away people with talent begging to help. Because of ego of what the mod is supposed to live up to being? 

 

Here is what thugs used to look like:

308792_188648157872921_709442223_n.jpg?o

 

When this project first started, the team was excited to gather assets no matter how shitty, we just wanted a game to play. Now the mod is a little too big for its britches and people are shunning what once would have been accepted in the original spirit or the project. We're still missing Pagan models. I'd be willing to bet if someone showed up and offered three Pagan models that were of the quality of the original thug model, they'd get rejected. IMO, that's so stupid! Here you have someone who is familiar with modeling, interested in it, and only going to get better and instead of bringing their skills and helping them create a more fitting model they get shunned. Do you think someone is going to come back and invest more time and energy into attempting to make more models for TDM? HELL NO. That's just another potential addition to helping the mod and taking some of the load off of the ones who are shouldering the majority of the burden. Not wise choice of way to grow an independent project.  

 

I'll be critical, the voice acting in TDM is fucking HORRIBLE. The acting is completely unbelievable. Like, TERRIBLE. It's the only thing that grounds the game from being extremely sick and twisted is the absolutely campy characters. But it's funny, and over time it has a charm to it. It's part of what makes TDM to be TDM. And I will agree with the TTLG folks that TDM AI spit out barks way too often. Once a minute is enough, I feel like every 10 seconds an AI is mumbly about something. 

 

When the PC Gamer Mod Of The Year was given to TDM the board got hit with so many spambots SH disabled the forum registration. I don't know about you guys, I'd rather spend a day deleting 500 spambots for the sake of 1000 new members than lose 1000 new members because someone didn't feel like dealing with the spam. What the fuck was the point all the publicity and attention to the mod received if the community didn't grow because of it? It was in vain, save for the ego trip some of the long time members must've felt. 

 

That's really what this board is, a bunch of lurkers, a bunch of really interested folk who fade out, and about 50 dedicated members who are active developers or mappers, etc. TDM is never going to be much more than that because of the mindset of the team. And if that's what you guys are about, more power to you. I'm just being a realist. 

 

Why did I sign up for the forum? To ask for help with walk through / FM help so I could complete a mission. It's probably the main reason any of us signed up who don't have skills with programming, modeling, textures, etc. And I will say it's an awesome community that is very friendly, down to earth and responds well in a debate situation, debating the idea, and not attacking the person (which MANY forums fail at). It makes a really nice experience to be part of this community and I'm happy it's here. It's not perfect, but nothing is. 

 

I've been watching for a while, and holding back a while. Now seemed like a good thread and time to vent my collective experience on TDM. Noone get there panties in a twist, these are just my opinions. 


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#15 Springheel

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 08:00 PM

It really tickles my irony meter to be lectured about being too critical of people's contributions and then have that person turn around and tell the people who have contributed vocals that their work is "fucking horrible".  Well done.  :rolleyes:
 
And if you're going to "vent", I'd highly recommend getting your facts straight:
 
 

And I will agree with the TTLG folks that TDM AI spit out barks way too often. Once a minute is enough, I feel like every 10 seconds an AI is mumbly about something.

 
The idle_bark interval is a random number between 30-90 seconds, which means the average will be exactly "once a minute".

 

SH disabled the forum registration

 
Registration was not disabled.

 

When this project first started, the team was excited to gather assets no matter how shitty, we just wanted a game to play.

 
 
I don't know where you got that idea.  One of the first things we did when the project started was vote in an art director to be in charge of quality control of models and textures.  That person (me) still performs that job, as well as putting untold hours of work into creating models and textures himself.
 

We're still missing Pagan models

 
We have a pagan model in game already.  We have another one that just needs to be rigged.  We're missing pagan VOCALS.  You know, the stuff contributed by the people whose efforts you just insulted?

 

Telling people who are enthusiastic that there contribution is of no worth

 
Please point out where someone was told that their contribution was "of no worth".  Certain assets are not going to be appropriate for the core mod, as others have already explained above.  But they can always be used by individual mappers, and that fact is generally put forward rather clearly.

 

and only going to get better and instead of bringing their skills and helping them create a more fitting model they get shunned.

 
Again, please point out where a contributor has been "shunned".  Anyone who is truly "begging to help" gets a very good reception here, complete with plenty of help, critiques, and tutorials. 

 

I don't know about you guys, I'd rather spend a day deleting 500 spambots for the sake of 1000 new members than lose 1000 new members because someone didn't feel like dealing with the spam.

 
It's awfully easy to volunteer other people's time, isn't it?  The people actually having to do the work didn't agree with you.

 

That's really what this board is, a bunch of lurkers, a bunch of really interested folk who fade out, and about 50 dedicated members who are active developers or mappers, etc.

 

 

And as a "realist", what exactly would you expect?  Most fan projects are lucky if they can claim that.


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#16 Deadlove

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 09:26 PM

Noone get there panties in a twist, these are just my opinions. 


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#17 Deadlove

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:05 PM

I started recording a batch Pagan vocals, made them public on the forum and it was you Springs, who told me that my voice didn't fit because you didn't think that it sounded like what a TDM pagan should sound like, it sounded too much like a Thief pagan. Now what were you saying again about having someone's contributions getting shot down when they are enthusiastic to help? 

 

In regarding to begging to help, I put in days upon days of hours working revamping every vocal set adding reverb as a temporary solution to the number of people wanting reverb in TDM. The response was I did a good job but instead of including it, the powers that be decided it was best option is to wait for A3D. That was over two years ago. 

 

Shooting down a modeler (or a sound designer) cuz their work doesn't fit the core mod themes and telling them to go put in untold hours of learning DR and creating a mission themselves to include their custom sound or custom model, (when that is not their area of expertise) is not going to help, and it sure isn't the best way inspire creativity and working comradery. 

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. I would have gladly pruned 500 spambots. Noone asked for help from community when the issue arose. It was done via executive decision behind closed doors. So don't tell me I'm volunteering someone else's time, cuz you're twisting my words. The exact phrase I used was "I'd rather spend a day deleting 500 spambots." That wasn't volunteering someone else, that was me asking for responsibility, not delegating it.

 

Don't put words in my mouth regarding the voice acting either. It is poorly, executed, that is a fact. But I stated that it gives TDM a certain charm with the bad voice acting, so don't try to make me out that I'm writing off the work that everyone put in voice acting. 

 

Calm down, have a xanax. Sure you've been around here probably the longest and this project is like a baby to you, but at this point of years doing it someone would think you've dealt with enough grievances to not respond sounding like a baby yourself. 

 

The shame of it is that I mentioned in my original post that members the board was usually good at debating the idea and not attacking the individual with the idea. You, as a long standing member around here should set a better fucking example. 

 

With leaders who think and lead like that, it's no wonder we still don't have a vocal set for the Pagan model. Sorry, the last bit was a bit was a low blow, but I would be doing myself a disservice and every member of this board a disservice if I didn't speak my mind completely. I am not at all ashamed to admit I am wrong, and it is in learning I am not the be all and end all that I can learn more myself. I'm not sorry to be making public my grievances, ad if anything people should be praised for this type of thing instead of worrying about a hatchet coming down on them or a lynching because they know TDM is great, but it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

It's a fucking opinion. It's not gospel. 


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#18 Deadlove

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:53 PM

On a more positive and helpful note, perhaps there can be an assets folder added to the core mod for all textures, models, sounds that are created but don't fit the context for the core mod, but still can have a place so others can decide if it would work well in their own FM.


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#19 Melan

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 05:17 AM

Two steps back, both of you gentlemen. Count to ten. Now resume if you still insist. Thanks!


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Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#20 Springheel

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 09:10 AM

it was you Springs, who told me that my voice didn't fit because you didn't think that it sounded like what a TDM pagan should sound like, it sounded too much like a Thief pagan. Now what were you saying again about having someone's contributions getting shot down when they are enthusiastic to help?

 
So what is your point?  That we should accept things that don't fit into the TDM universe just to avoid hurting someone's feelings?

  

In regarding to begging to help, I put in days upon days of hours working revamping every vocal set adding reverb as a temporary solution to the number of people wanting reverb in TDM. The response was I did a good job but instead of including it, the powers that be decided it was best option is to wait for A3D. That was over two years ago.

 
Ok...again, I don't know what your point is.  Did you disagree with the reasoning behind that decision? 

 

Don't put words in my mouth regarding the voice acting either.

 
I didn't "put words in your mouth".  I quoted your exact words:  "the voice acting in TDM is fucking HORRIBLE. The acting is completely unbelievable. Like, TERRIBLE."  The fact that you find that "charming" doesn't change anything, nor would it, I suspect, make the actors who did the work feel better. 

 

 you've dealt with enough grievances to not respond sounding like a baby yourself.

 
Remember the part about "not attacking the person" that you lauded earlier?  That goes both ways.

 

not attacking the individual with the idea. You, as a long standing member around here should set a better fucking example.

 
Uh, please point to a SINGLE instance where I "attacked the individual" in that post. 

 

I would be doing myself a disservice and every member of this board a disservice if I didn't speak my mind completely.

 
You may want to reexamine that notion.
 
 

It's a fucking opinion.


Obviously.  What is that supposed to mean, that you get to say what you like and other people can't respond?  You can't call people's work "fucking horrible" and expect to hide behind "just my opinion". 

 

So other than venting your frustrations, throwing around insults, and burning through some social capital, what exactly was the point of these posts?  You think we're too harsh with new contributors?  You want us to stop caring about what the mod looks like just and accept whatever people offer?  That somehow putting out poorer quality assets will make us more popular?  If those are actually your claims, you need to provide some good arguments to support them, because none of them are immediately obvious.

 

 

Calm down, have a xanax.

 

 

Good advice.


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#21 SeriousToni

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 09:16 AM

On a more positive and helpful note, perhaps there can be an assets folder added to the core mod for all textures, models, sounds that are created but don't fit the context for the core mod, but still can have a place so others can decide if it would work well in their own FM.

 

Maybe a better option would be a section on  the website or right here in the forums, where you can download fully released additional things like models or sounds, who don't make it in the core mod. To put everything into the mod that was created once but doesn't have a certain level of quality means to blow it up and make it bigger than it should be.


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

#22 Springheel

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 09:39 AM

That's not a new idea: http://forums.thedar...any-other-help/

 

Unfortunately no one seems to have time to maintain it.



#23 SeriousToni

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 10:01 AM

Hm yes - well I think putting it all in one thread is not the best for organisation and overview. Maybe a subforum just for full releases of such "addon packages" would be better. Then every thread could have a convention like "[SOUND] Project Title", like [MODEL] Pagan with horns.

 

The next question would be: are there really any full releases yet, who can be put there. I remember me making an alternative foot sound package but I never got it fully done (nor was I satisfied). From the top of my head, there are not that many optional contributions, which are fully working, atm. :mellow:


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#24 VanishedOne

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 10:48 AM

That's not a new idea: http://forums.thedar...any-other-help/

 

Unfortunately no one seems to have time to maintain it.

Also http://forums.thedar...refab-database/-- ditto.


Some things I'm repeatedly thinking about...

- louder scream when you're dying


#25 Deadlove

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:51 PM

  

I didn't "put words in your mouth".  I quoted your exact words:  "the voice acting in TDM is fucking HORRIBLE. The acting is completely unbelievable. Like, TERRIBLE."  The fact that you find that "charming" doesn't change anything, nor would it, I suspect, make the actors who did the work feel better. 

 

 

If someone was looking for me, and I was in a place that I wasn't supposed to be, and their intent was to kill me, then yes, the voice acting in TDM is terrible, horrible, whatever have you. Horrible, as in not realistic to the situation. Which, from the way I've come to understand things, TDM strives to be a realistic immersion simulation. There is no fear instilled or intimidation. It's campy, and has more of a Benny Hill or Monty Python comic feel to it. Which, is why it makes it charming, or cute. Bridgeport doesn't remind me of a charming or cute place, but the voices of the AI sure do. 

 

That's not a knock on the voice actors, that's a knock on my suspension of disbelief being disrupted based on my perception of trespassing and stealing, and what the tone of a verbal response would be if I was suspected or being there or caught. 

 

I just don't want you making a point of deciding for me and announcing to the forum that I find the voice actors contributions as not worth it. If I thought it was trash, I wouldn't have taken the time to edit the around 7000 or so barks adding reverb to all of them. If I thought they were so horrible, I wouldn't be able to maintain playing TDM. Which, it should be obvious I find as an exciting and fun game despite its shortcomings. 


Edited by Deadlove, 29 November 2015 - 08:01 PM.

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