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#26 demagogue

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 11:03 PM

I mean if you think the treatment of contributors is harsh, they pale in comparison to how harsh the team is on itself and some of the epic squabbles that have happened. Working on big projects generates a lot of creative friction. It's the nature of the beast. It's actually a good sign because it means people really care. There's more to worry about when people stop caring and just shrug and let anything go.

It's true there's also a "democracy ethos" as another way. T2X had that. It wanted to let everyone participate, and it's another valid model and has its virtues which were on display in that. But it also suffers for it in other ways, quality, consistency, and there's still interpersonal friction. But anyway it isn't our model, at least for the core stuff. We just picked a more closed model from the start and stuck to it. We're very democratic when it comes to FMs though.

And I think people that want to enter any creative endeavor seriously should learn to grow thick skin, because you don't get better unless your work is subjected to the cruel light of day under a microscope, keeping in mind the real world limitations. And as I said before, skepticism is almost the reflexive first reaction if someone expects something to go in, but it forces you to expect high standards. My first project was the ambient sound system, and I got skepticism and pushback. But it was good because it forced me to make the system as perfect as I could. 'I'll show them!' It wouldn't have gotten to a workable state without that push. And in the end, I'm proud that it's used a lot.

But anyway, all of this assumes there's no safe place for newbies to make stuff just for fun with no pressure. There is a place for that in FMs, and we can find examples in the forums all the time.

 

Edit: We're friendly towards newbie mappers with FM contests. We could have an asset contest or contribution drive friendly for newbies for our "Fan Contribution Depository" too. That might be a good way to give some attention to it and make a depository actually work & get maintained. And just generally, it might be constructive to treat fan assets like fan-missions. There's a valid point to be made that fans should have encouraging & newbie-friendly outlets to contribute to the game.


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#27 demagogue

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 08:25 AM

That last point gives me another idea. You know how there's a Starter's Map with all the map essentials in it? Someone could make a Custom Asset map that features all the playable custom assets (along with the Starter Map stuff) in one handy place already made game ready, and mappers can just build right off that map or just copy things to their own map. And it can be periodically updated with new in-coming fan assets. And then it gives newbies something to aim for, making something to go in the next version. And maybe we havea pipeline to consider taking things for the mod from that map, no promises, but mappers can always use it. It sets up healthy expectations.
How does that sound?
Would anyone volunteer to make something like that?
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#28 VanishedOne

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 10:34 AM

I'd favour a series of small assets-demo maps over one big one. They'll load faster and it'll be easier to find the asset files you want.


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#29 demagogue

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 09:19 PM

Then they'll be split up too.
I don't think even one map is going to be any bigger than a small contest FM.
And the map can have signs pointing the way to things by category and what's new.
And the main purpose is people can pilfer straight from the asset folders, where one is handier.
So one getting updated is still my vote.
Multiple maps for anything just feels bloaty to me.
(Even with multiple, they should be packaged together at least.)
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#30 Melan

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 02:31 AM

In its time, Dromed Deluxe had a huge "exhibit hall" showcasing all the extra items and AI that came with it, so the idea works.


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#31 Airship Ballet

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 04:06 AM

I'd enjoy putting that together. Would be difficult to find everybody's stuff, though.
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#32 Deadlove

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 07:03 PM

Hell yeh Airship! Thanks for stepping up. :)

 

It would be TDM theme park / zoo / to explore. 

 

Mommy, I want to see the female human mantis model exhibit!! You guys remember that one? 

 

Or let's see the fire elemental float around!

 

The Werebeast! 

 

The Shaman!

 

:-)


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#33 Springheel

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 07:28 PM

Or let's see the fire elemental float around!

 

The Werebeast! 

 

 

 

 

The fire elemental and werebeast are both core assets.  It would be great if someone had the time and energy to get them working.  It will be at least another six months before I could look at either one of them (though I had that fire elemental 90% working at one point). 


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#34 Melan

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 03:22 AM

I could very much use the fire elemental. Not in my current mission, but the one I expect to complete in the second half of the next year.


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#35 DevAnj

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 10:44 AM

Personally, all I'm going to say is that I'm glad the Dark Mod has content managers who do their job. Too many mods often die out or end up being subpar because they don't have any proper management of time, content or such.

 

Regarding custom models, people are free to make any models they want. However, it makes sense not to place them in the core if they don't fit in with Dark Mod's other assets. I would suggest that for such models, they could be placed under a miscellaneous category and be picked from there. Something like the Thief Object Repository for Dark Mod objects would be good too, if someone could maintain it well enough.

 

Thief Object Repository: http://www.spirited-tech.com/thief/ 


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#36 Capela

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 03:18 PM

 

The fire elemental and werebeast are both core assets.  It would be great if someone had the time and energy to get them working.  It will be at least another six months before I could look at either one of them (though I had that fire elemental 90% working at one point). 

I really like to see that 2 models around, i think the fire elemental would be more easy to make than the...elemental "tree".  I know thats a topic about given money to the persons, but way not contribute with money to buy this models to use in TDM the project!!!, if we dont have an official modeler right now that can make this models and others, we could try to buy someones works that fits the lore... im really glad to contribute with some money....after all "time is money".  


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#37 Deadlove

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 03:30 PM

 
The fire elemental and werebeast are both core assets.  It would be great if someone had the time and energy to get them working.  It will be at least another six months before I could look at either one of them (though I had that fire elemental 90% working at one point). 


This is one of the points I'm making. If a modeler (or other skills) comes along, offer them to help finish for the intended core assets that are currently incomplete.

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#38 Springheel

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 03:59 PM

This is one of the points I'm making. If a modeler (or other skills) comes along, offer them to help finish for the intended core assets that are currently incomplete.

 

 

Do you think we don't do that?

 

Finishing those assets requires specialized knowledge that not many people have (if they did it would be done already).   And people with the right skillset are rarely enthusiastic about trying to finish someone else's incomplete project.  We can't force people to work on the things we want to see done.


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#39 SeriousToni

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 06:14 PM

FYI theres also a nice thread here ;)
http://forums.thedar...-help/?p=282387


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#40 Obsttorte

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 03:34 AM

This is one of the points I'm making. If a modeler (or other skills) comes along, offer them to help finish for the intended core assets that are currently incomplete.

Mista, I've stepped up a while ago getting the werebeast (created by Diego) into the game. But guess what, it is more complicated as you may think and I didn't had the time to get it done right now (although it is on my to do list).

 

I know I'm late to the party but I have to say that I'm always amused about this kind of discussions. In fact there is only a very small amount of contributors for TDM, so it is not like we are dismissing 10 contributions per day. And if something does not fit the quality standards, noone is going to tell a possible contributor that it's work isn't worth beeing added, but instead everyone who can is trying to help the person improving his work by giving him advices or offering help. This counts for Springheel, too. So I really don't see the point in you attacking him. Especially considering that he is much more critical in regards to his own work (which is quite a lot) as towards the work of others.

 

But yes, he is the quality officer and as such it is his duty to ensure a certain standard. And this includes constructive criticism. The latter is the base of each collaborative work. So if you can't deal with it, than this is an issue with you, not with the community.

 

And btw., your critics were NOT constructive.


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#41 Deadlove

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:11 AM

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I'd like to apologize to the whole community for my recent rantings. I am not one to be making decisions on what is fitting to the core mod, not an I educated enough to know the amount of work required to bring certain aspects of the program to life. I have just as much of a desire to see this game to be perfected, and instead of venting I should be educating myself so I can contribute more to raise the level of quality for all to enjoy.

I was just speaking my mind. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes or undermine their work. Especially when it comes to people like SH, who there is no comparison that his devotion to TDM is far more dedicated than my own, and his work on the mod proves it. That goes same for you Obs.

I don't want people dismissing what I have to say because I sound like a Debbie Downer. I guess I'm just frustrated more people aren't as passionate about seeing the game blossom. I wish I had skills to contribute in more areas than sound design, testing and storylines/continuity.

My ego got the better of me and I shot my mouth off. Thanks for putting me back in my place and reminding me of the big picture. You guys deserve a lot of praise for the work, and I have lots of praise too, I generally don't mention those things because I already view them as exceptional, so for some reason I don't feel it's necessary to talk of things I adore.

From now on I will make a stronger effort to express my satisfactions as well as disappointments. I know first hand how much negative criticism can get under someone's skin, just as positive criticisms can really help make someone feel great. And positive reinforcements are much more driving to fuel creativity and additional work than negative.

Cheers guys.
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#42 Bikerdude

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:56 AM

And to add to that list, just relax and go and have a go at some mapping, we all had to learn some where.






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