Mission Difficulty

[walkfar60]

Hey folks!

 

Would it be possible to add a difficulty level to the missions as being a novice it would be useful to know before downloading a mission.

 

 

[nbohr1more]

I could add a row to the Missions wiki.

 

I would need to get authors on-board with the designations though.

 

I would guess that Sotha would approve listing his missions as challenging...

[Sotha]

I could add a row to the Missions wiki.

 

I would need to get authors on-board with the designations though.

 

I would guess that Sotha would approve listing his missions as challenging...

 

Howsabout a simple three step difficulty designation: Easy, Medium and Hard. The evaluation is quite subjective. Here is evalutions for my missions. I am sure someone will disagree.

 

The Golden Skull: Easy.

 

Ulysses: Genesis: Medium.

Ulysses 2: Protecting the Flock: Medium.

 

Mandrasola: Medium.

Knighton Manor: Medium.

Beleaguered Fence: Hard.

Glenham Tower: Medium.

The Transaction: Hard.

The Phrase Book: Medium.

The Lich Queen's Demise: Hard.

[nbohr1more]

I love your "subjective" take on this Sotha.

 

I'm sure AluminumHaste will shortly arrive to say that all missions are "extremely easy" so there's no need for a difficulty listing yet

[Springheel]

There's really no way to know whether a mission is easy or hard. It matters who is playing, and what difficulty level they choose for the mission.

 

Ideally, each mission would be easy on Easy and hard on Hard. But in practice difficulty levels are underused.

[nbohr1more]

Yeah, the only measuring stick we have is the authors word unless they grant permission to vote on the official difficulty.

I believe there has been chatter about adding voting features to the mission download interface before so that's probably a moot topic until someone makes

an example implementation.

[Sotha]

Or could we add a "Novice-friendly" tag on the easy missions so that newbies get to play the easy ones first?

 

Separating Medium from Hard is difficult as Spring said, but True Easy missions are Easy, and thus novice friendly.

 

Easy mission is identified with these: short&straightforward mission (not necessarily linear), simple predictable AI patrols, plenty of hiding spots, often lots of gear, AI don't relight lights much.

 

Some examples of such missions:

Thief's Remorse

Trapped!

Too Late

Outpost

 

Which gives me an idea for the next contest: howsabout a Novice Mission Contest: easy, simple, straightforward missions with good gameplay and pleasing aesthetics? Clearly we need more missions for the novices to get hooked?

[VanishedOne]

Easy mission is identified with these: short&straightforward mission (not necessarily linear), simple predictable AI patrols, plenty of hiding spots, often lots of gear, AI don't relight lights much.

Other possible criteria: no or simple puzzles, no loot goal or plenty of unconcealed loot, no or few killing or blackjack restrictions (at least on Normal), few or no elite guards, no Gatehouse-style jumping/time-sensitive challenges...

[nbohr1more]

I would add:

 

Mad's Mountain

Closemouthed Shadows

The Parcel

 

to your list Sotha, though Trapped! might be pushing it.

[rich_is_bored]

This is one of those cases where collecting data from players would be useful. Mission statistics come to mind. You can use averages, minimums, and maximums to make some reasonable assumptions about the nature of a mission.

[Bienie]

These are all great ideas, although as said before actually estimating difficulty is quite hard. Different people will struggle with different things. Some will struggle with puzzles, others with forced combat, while a third person will struggle with understanding the English in readables/conversations. I think it is reasonably easy to identify novice friendly missions, and having a tag system in the download menu would certainly benefit newcomers.

I also like your idea rich_is_bored, using result screens is perhaps the most objective way to estimate difficulty, at least with regards to mission length, AI difficulty and loot difficulty. This would have to be something actively submitted by players though. Adding some function where TDM calls home and sends result screens in the background would be... dubious at best. I guess a tick box in the menu (which you have to manually select) would be an acceptable middle ground.

[AluminumHaste]

I love your "subjective" take on this Sotha.

 

I'm sure AluminumHaste will shortly arrive to say that all missions are "extremely easy" so there's no need for a difficulty listing yet

 

OMG hahahaha, I don't do THAT!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Do I?

 

 

 

 

 

Well they ARE easy

[Deadlove]

This is what has happened over the years of the core community members got so good at TDM that they invented a guard you cannot blackjack.

 

Easy to hard is difficult to define depending on the skill of players.

 

Best advice is to tweak the settings to make the combat easier, guards nearly deaf/nearly blind, auto lock picking to make the game easier for the new player, while they learn how the game world and player were designed to interact.

 

This thread got me thinking though, the community should vote on/create a list of which missions are the ABSOLUTE top, cream of the crop for TDM and make sure new players experience those missions first.

 

It could be a "TDM community choice award" or something for missions like Requiem, In the North, or All The Way Up that are some of the best TDM currently has to offer.

 

Out of the about 70 missions available, imagine someone plays "St Lucia", wants another great experience and accidentally downloads a LAME mission, or two. Yes, I won't name any, but TDM has its fair share of lousy FMs. It will turn a potential fan away from the game.

[Springheel]

A bit out of date, but if someone wanted to start a new one:

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/13323-pick-your-top-5-tdm-missions/

[Deadlove]

We should probably start a new thread, there's about 40 new missions added since December 2011.

[Melan]

It is subjective since people have different skills and approaches - they have different skills including avoiding AI, solving puzzles or just finding things in a switch/keyhunt. But there are a few approaches that could work.

 

Or could we add a "Novice-friendly" tag on the easy missions so that newbies get to play the easy ones first?

I like this one, sounds like a good idea. Also, a few "if you are new, start here" missions.

 

 

Well they ARE easy

Even PD2: All the Way Up? ...My life has been in vain!

 

 

[wesp5]

This is what has happened over the years of the core community members got so good at TDM that they invented a guard you cannot blackjack.

I guess this is one reason why every feature suggestion that could make the game easier is normally rejected, as it's too easy for the core members and developers anyway ! But regarding marking some missions or selecting the best ones, isn't there a team working on a new map list? There could be a symbol added to the missions in that, like a star for a top mission, something else for a beginners mission and something other for a campaign mission.

[AluminumHaste]

 

 

Even PD2: All the Way Up? ...My life has been in vain!

 

 

 

 

Easy? Yeah, they all are.

That mission just required EXTREME patience to learn and manipulate patrol routes. Especially when you go to the key makers house. That took just 20 minutes of waiting.

 

The problem is that all maps are combinations of patrol timings and enemy placement. There's very rarely environmental obstacles that get in the way. So really all you're doing is timing patrol routes and exploiting AI behaviour. That doesn't mean I don't find these maps challenging. I am a quicksave whore so that has a lot to do with my forward progression being constant.

If I had to give up QS/QL, there are many people on this forum who are way better than me.

[walkfar60]

Hey fellow jackdaws!

 

I played Sotha - The Golden Skull and must say as for a novice was great fun! I left my dear departed one wreaking havoc while I stole the skull!

 

As for another mission called 'Poets and Peasants' by Digi, I'm at a loss! I got the rope-arrows got the loot from the thieving novice as well as stealing everything from the house with the 2 guards standing outside, but I;m blessed what to do next? Tried using the rope-arrows elsewhere but can't find any solutions.

[Oldjim]

Did you try leaving the way you came in - in other words go back to the door which was behind you at the start

[V-Man339]

I think two things you're all ignoring is that the obvious thing to remember is aside from an obvious tag system, certain players are far more privy to find difficulty where others might not.

I know missions many would find easy I didn't simply because I abstain from items unless I absolutely need to use them. Sotha's missions, as a result, are among the hardest I've ever played as a direct result of this.

Aside from this? I can safely say a direct factor in how easy it is to do an all loot run is just how privy the AI is to changes in the environment, such as missing loot or opened doors (both of which made Tears of St. Lucia much harder than it might be otherwise), not to mention optional objectives only for people who want a challenge.