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Considering New Computer


Aosys

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My old HP Pavilion Slimline isn't doing so well, and it's reached the point where I'm seriously considering getting a new computer. However, I'm not really sure where to start. I'd like a powerful gaming PC that runs Windows 7 (possibly with a Linux dual-boot on the side), and I've talked with one or two people about building a custom one (it should be said, I've never done this before). However, I've also had someone tell me that custom-built computers are clunky, and it's better to buy one ready out of the box. Since I know many of the folks here are far more tech-savvy than I am, I was wondering if anyone had any advice?

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I always build my own

In that way I can get the components I want including a quiet case and fans

For example I just rebuilt mine

As the case, graphics card, power supply and hard drives were OK I only needed a motherboard, CPU, cooler and memory

The point I am making is that I selected the components I actually needed which were

An i5 4690k CPU and a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO for quiet cool running and a Z97 motherboard

It certainly isn't clunky and does just what I want and does it quietly

 

The first thing to consider is which case to get as that needs to be right to get a cool running system (at least 2 x 120mm case fans) and enough room for multiple hard drives including at least one SSD and then a good quality power supply (this is most important and is often neglected) and I prefer Corsair

For myself I like a case which has a removable motherboard tray as it makes assembly so much easier - My case is an Akasa Eclipse 62 which is no longer available but I am sure that there are others on the market

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@Bikerdude Should I PM you a screenshot, or should I post it here? Also, I think it might be worth noting that, technically speaking, the HP Pavilion isn't strictly mine. It's a family computer, so part of my rationale for buying a whole new rig is that I won't have to share it with anyone.

 

@Jaxa I had a look at the Logical Increments site, but am unsure which tier would be ideal?

 

 

In terms of what I've got worked out so far, I spoke with a friend of mine and he told me a bit about building a computer. Here's what I've got based on what he said:

 

- Case: Looking online, it seems that a full tower case might be overkill? The space I have to work with is roughly 24 cm (width) x 42.5 cm (length) x 66 cm (height), although the front and back of my desk are open so conceivably the length can be longer. My friend says he used a Cooler Master case back when he built his machine, and that proper air flow is an important consideration. Are there any cases in particular that you guys recommend?

 

- Motherboard: No idea what to do here. Completely open to suggestions.

 

- Power Supply: I've heard multiple times that a good power supply is important, so I definitely will look into getting a good one (are gold or platinum recommended?).

 

- RAM: 8 gigs seems to be the minimum for a good rig, and it's what my PC currently has, but should I go higher?

 

- Cooling System: Corsair liquid cooling was recommended to me for the CPU. Thoughts?

 

- Graphics Card: I don't currently own any really graphics-intensive games, but I'd like a setup that can handle, for example, Witcher 3, Fallout 4, and later down the road maybe Cyberpunk 2077, since these are what I see myself getting at some point or another. And of course TDM - my current machine runs most FMs just fine, but can encounter performance issues at times, which I suspect is a GPU issue?

 

- Disc Reader: Again, completely open to suggestions.

 

- CPU: Intel was recommended, in particular an i7 above 3.0 GHz. Would an i5 work? I was also told that quad core would be good to go for?

 

- Hard Drive and SSD: Would 1 TB be enough, or should I have 2 minimum? Not really sure what to do with SSD.

 

- Sound Card: My friend told me this was optional. Should I invest in one?

 

 

Ideally, I'd like to stay under 1000 USD, but I could maybe go up to 2000 if need be?

 

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- Hard Drive and SSD: Would 1 TB be enough, or should I have 2 minimum? Not really sure what to do with SSD.

 

 

I am also not a real tech savvy, but as far as I know, SSDs are much quicker than regular hard disc drives, but have the problem, that they have a limited amount of times, you can write on them. That is why they are ideal for files that are read frequently and maybe need to be read quickly (like the operating system), but are not as good for files that get changed quite often, because it reduces the lifetime of the SSD.

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@Bikerdude Should I PM you a screenshot, or should I post it here? Also, I think it might be worth noting that, technically speaking, the HP Pavilion isn't strictly mine. It's a family computer, so part of my rationale for buying a whole new rig is that I won't have to share it with anyone.

Either or mister, and what is your prefer place for computer kit? newegg, amazon or somewhere else.

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@Aosys clearly you have a wildly flexible budget if you'd like to stay under $1000 but can go to $2000.

 

Hovering over the components on Logical Increments gives you some info about them.

 

To your "custom-built computers are clunky", I say that they are easier to build now than at any point in history. There are also numerous resources available to explain everything, including step by step video guides on YouTube. PC Parts Picker also lets you know if the components you choose are going to be incompatible with each other (for example, motherboard constraints).

 

I am not building systems myself, but I have written down example configurations out of curiosity. Here is one I wrote down in 2013:

 

$180 Intel Core i5-3350P CPU

$250 Nvidia GeForce GTX 760 GPU

$90 ASRock Z77 Pro3: LGA 1155, Intel Z77 Express Motherboard

$40 8 GB RAM

$120 240 GB SSD Primary storage

$55 Antec Neo Eco 520C Power/PSU

$15 DVD drive

$45 Rosewill Redbone U3 Case

$30 Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 CPU cooler

$825 TOTAL

 

For you I would say get a middle of the line Intel Core i5 chip. i7 is overkill for most gaming machines -- the GPU is more important than the CPU. I like the look of Nvidia over AMD, but Bikerdude can help you pick the card best for TDM. How well it can run Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 will depend on the screen resolution you want, so it's best to bring the display into this discussion.

 

Best CPUs

 

Intel Core i5-6500 looks good. $205 according to the page, but it can be found for around $165-190.

 

Best Graphics Cards For The Money

 

GTX 970 is probably a good choice from Nvidia. That's listed around $280.

 

8 GB of RAM is likely sufficient, but 16 GB DDR3 kits are cheaper than they used to be. For example, here is one on sale for $58. 1600 MHz and 1.5 V is reasonable.

 

On storage, I recommend getting a 240-256 GB SSD. They have dropped significantly in price. Amazon has the 850 EVO 250 GB for $78. You could install your OS and most games on the SSD and add an internal 1 TB hard disk drive for videos and other stuff for maybe $40. But you could just as easily keep an external hard drive near the computer. If you are feeling like spending a little more and keeping more on the SSD, consider a 512 GB SSD. The SSD issues Destined mentioned above probably aren't applicable to 2015's well-reviewed SSDs.

 

No sound card needed.

 

A normal DVD read/write optical drive can be found for $15.

 

If I got anything in this post wrong, Bikerdude should be able to shoot it down.

Edited by jaxa
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I threw this build together on pc parts picker: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/usertests/saved/cMPp99

 

Basically $1000 after some mail-in rebates, without even trying hard to hit that price point. If you set the preferred merchants to just Newegg and Amazon, it's $1053.07 - $40 mail-in rebates.

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/bwmXD3
CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($204.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus B150-PLUS D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Team Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($147.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.16 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($314.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($19.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1013.07
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-04 16:27 EST-0500
Just run it by Bikerdude before you act on my suggestions.
Edited by jaxa
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Slightly off topic but perhaps relevant

I don't know what the return policies are like in the states - New Egg for example but in the UK the highest rated site is Scan and the horror stories in their forums about return problems is why I bought my last CPU, Motherboard and Monitor from Amazon as their no quibble return policy is superb

I always buy my memory direct from Crucial for exactly the same reason

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Re the CPU and cooler

I wasn't aware that the i5 was now available in Skylake as opposed to Haswell K (that is what I bought) so I have no idea which is better bang for your buck but I would check it

This was one comparison I saw https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Haswell-vs-Skylake-S-i7-4790K-vs-i7-6700K-641/

For a cooler unless you are going to heavily overclock I wouldn't bother with water cooling just a decent air cooler

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  • CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($204.99 @ Newegg)
  • CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
  • Motherboard: Asus B150-PLUS D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
  • Memory: Team Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
  • Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($147.99 @ Amazon)
  • Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.16 @ Amazon)
  • Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($314.99 @ Amazon)
  • Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
  • Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)
  • Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($19.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1013.07

Following on from this, Aosys sent me the specs of his current PC. Its so old that he will need to replace everythign including the monitor, so that means changging a few of the items in the above list.

  • Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (amazon $78)
  • Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 4GB EVGA Video Card (amazon $210)

This should leave $175 in the budget for a replacement 22-24" monitor -

  • Dell SE2216H 22 - good middle of the road IPS monitor (amazon $126)

And lastly if you can re-use your Win7 licence from your Old pc (assuming your not giving to a reletive) otherwise Win7/8.1 pro 64bit can be found on ebay for $40-50

 

And vert lastly hunt around on amazon for all the above parts as I would able to find the same Asus mobo at $89, saving you $5 for example...

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Here is the updated build list based on Biker's suggestions:

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/L2qc8d

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($204.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus B150-PLUS D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Team Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($77.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.16 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 4GB EVGA Video Card ($264.00 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)

Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($19.99 @ Amazon)

Monitor: Dell SE2216H 60Hz 21.5" Monitor ($129.99 @ Amazon)

TOTAL: $1022.07

 

Does this look right?

 

 

I may have a Windows 7 Professional SP1 disc lying around somewhere, but I'll have to go check (it's what's currently installed on my laptop). I do have a Cisco AE2500 wireless adapter ready to go, so no problems there I think?

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I wouldn't skimp on the GPU. If you really want to keep it around $1000, how about bumping the GPU back to the 970 and eliminating the 1 TB hard drive? If you have an external drive laying around (for example I have a 3 TB drive) then you don't need that, and $50 is not a great price for 1 TB anyway.

 

Truth be told, Tom's Hardware for example will downgrade the CPU to Core i3 or even Pentium in order to make more room in the budget for the GPU.

Edited by jaxa
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I'm actually working on getting a new PC myself and these are the best specs i've found for your budget (which is also my budget range too)

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/PYZ699

 

Processor - Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core
$319.99
Motherboard - MSI H81M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150
$45.98
Memory - Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866
$84.89
Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal
$49.98
Video Card - MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V
$328.99
Tower Case - Corsair 200R ATX Mid
$49.99
Power Supply - EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX
$37.98
Total: $917.80
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http://pcpartpicker.com/p/L2qc8d

  • CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($204.99 @ Newegg)
  • CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
  • Motherboard: Asus B150-PLUS D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
  • Memory: Team Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
  • Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($77.99 @ Amazon)
  • Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.16 @ Amazon)
  • Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 4GB EVGA Video Card ($264.00 @ Amazon)
  • Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
  • Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)
  • Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($19.99 @ Amazon)
  • Monitor: Dell SE2216H 60Hz 21.5" Monitor ($129.99 @ Amazon)

TOTAL: $1022.07

  • Does this look right?
  • I may have a Windows 7 Professional SP1 disc lying around somewhere, but I'll have to go check (it's what's currently installed on my laptop).
  • I do have a Cisco AE2500 wireless adapter ready to go, so no problems there I think?
  • Looks grand
  • make sure its the 64bit version, failing that there is a utility out there that can make any Win7 dsic into a universal 32/64bit and basic/home/pro disc.

And just read that the skylake CPU's have a thinner PCB so be carefull not to over tighten the CPU cooler - fudzilla

 

I wouldn't skimp on the GPU. If you really want to keep it around $1000, how about bumping the GPU back to the 970 and eliminating the 1 TB hard drive? If you have an external drive laying around then you don't need that,

Good idea, he can re-usert the HD's from his old pc.

 

 

  • Processor - Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core $319.99
  • Motherboard - MSI H81M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150 $45.98
  • Memory - Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 $84.89
  • Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal $49.98
  • Video Card - MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V $328.99
  • Tower Case - Corsair 200R ATX Mid $49.99
  • Power Supply - EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX $37.98

What are you current system specs..? as you should be able to reuse a lot of parts. As in re-use the HDD and buy an SSD, or reuser the PSU, or case.

 

@ ALL, when buying a gfx card I strongly advise buying one with as long a warranty as possible, eg 3ys. The big names that do this include Evga, Gigabyte, Asus anjd I think Msi. amd

 

@Goldwell, you should be able to get a 970 from one of the aformentioned companies for closer to $300.

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Reading up on the issues with the Skylake CPU, and given that the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler is, according to Newegg, just a little over 1 lb., should I maybe go with the last generation of Intel CPU instead? Would Haswell or Broadwell work?

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You want the K series Haswell as that has the better heat transfer medium so runs cooler if you go that route

I don't know anything about the Broadwell which is the later version except that it is a lot more expensive in the UK

Edited by Oldjim
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The only reason I would go with a previous gen CPU is if I am saving some $$$, and after a quick look both newegg & amazing are pulling the old racketeering of not selling any of the old versions bull$hit.

 

Just stick with the list you have and make sure not to over tighten the cooler screws etc. And you should installed the cooler to the mobo before its inside the case.

 

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I'm not sure parallel computing has matured to the point where quad cores are mandatory. There are some new Pentiums available for $50 that are just as fast as an i7 but dual core. I built my nephew a system with one and I was a little nervous that it might not be powerful enough but it seems to runs new games just fine.

 

Here's the build...

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/rich_is_bored/saved/#view=XnzdnQ

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I'm not sure parallel computing has matured to the point where quad cores are mandatory. There are some new Pentiums available for $50 that are just as fast as an i7 but dual core. I built my nephew a system with one and I was a little nervous that it might not be powerful enough but it seems to runs new games just fine.

 

Here's the build...

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/rich_is_bored/saved/#view=XnzdnQ

 

Like I said, the GPU is more important than CPU for gaming, because Intel CPUs already stomp AMD CPUs and CPU requirements for games climb less slowly over time than GPU requirements. AFAIK The Dark Mod in particular is still mostly limited to a single core.

 

I put an i5 quad in my recommendations because it is fast, future proof (CPU performance improvement is now incremental) and fits in the budget. i7 would be overkill, and unlocked multiplier chips aren't even necessary. The GPU could be sold or donated to a fellow TDM player 3-4 years down the line and replaced with a newer one while keeping all of the other specs intact. The PSU won't even need to be replaced because both NVIDIA and AMD are keeping power consumption low on future GPUs (using innovations such as High Bandwidth Memory that will replace GDDR5 over the next 2 years).

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AMD is pushing a future reliant on multi-core. So much so, that they've spearheaded the Mantle and DX12 asynchronous shader initiatives.

Thus far, the developer community has been slow to adopt these changes. We don't have any developers who know Vulcan (and really, there

are very few folks who understand Vulcan since it technically doesn't exist yet...). TDM wont be adding a Mantle backend since that's proprietary.

 

It's really strange to see that since DX10 and DX11 era were filled with talk about how "now that GPU's are pretty much general computing devices

the next step is to let them feed themselves". I guess AMD couldn't wait for that to be worked out in D3D committee and wasn't gonna risk the

introduction of novel hardware thus their asynchronous shader push instead. (That or they needed a more tangible reason to sell their "moar cores"

strategy to desktop users since developers weren't using the cores for AI or Physics...)

 

Anyway...

 

"Right now", for "TDM" anything with Core Duo architecture or better at a high clock rate is where you'll max-out the performance possibilities of

TDM. Meaning, that lowly Pentiums or i3 CPU's with good clock rates ( 3.2GHZ or higher) will be enough to go toe-to-toe with i5 or i7's.

The engine does minimally support threading but additional cores or HT have rarely shown any significant gains, so I would say a 3.3ghz i3 is

roughly like a 3.2ghz i5 or something along those lines. You get the i5 for it's benefits in other games or allow you to leave background apps

running while you run TDM.

 

That said, Revelator has shown some better gains in his TDM branch which incorporates some explicit multi-core in the renderer so future TDM

releases may benefit more from i5's and higher. And, there are some plans to move more work to the GPU (GPU Skinning) so maybe AMD CPU's

will be more competitive in a future TDM release at that point... but that would benefit all architectures anyway (other than GPU's with really weak geometry processing).

I wouldn't build a new PC with the expectation that any engine changes will arrive "soon".

  • Like 1

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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First of all, a massive thank you to everyone who's helped out! As someone who's completely new to this sort of thing, it was a bit overwhelming for me going in, but I think I've learned a lot and can approach my first build with some confidence now. I've just ordered the optical drive (it was the cheapest thing on the list, and I had a $20 gift card to get rid of), and will probably begin collecting the rest of the components soon.

 

One quick question, though: is having an SSD worth it? I was speaking to someone about it today, and it seems they've had a lot of bad experiences with SSDs failing. They also pointed out that SSDs have limited write cycles, and seemed to think I'd start getting weird issues within a year of installation...

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