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Windows 10: Why you should NOT upgrade...


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#1 Bikerdude

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 06:54 AM

I will update this list as we go, re-arranging info based on severity -

  1. Ongoing privacy concerns
  2. Advertising
  3. Stability and Compatibility
    • I tested the retail version, its IMHO its still not stable enough to considered a daily OS. I tested on release and wasn't impressed.
    • I found if I enabled (fairly modest) whitelist outbound blocking on my internet router, Win10's internet responsiveness would fall through the floor. All browsers would takes ages to resolve sites and the OS itself would actually become lumpy/laggy.
    • Broken Video drivers, its so widespread that even a few on here have been affected - http://forums.thedar...grade/?p=384905
  4. The Graphical user interface
    • M$ white-washing of the interface in Win8 and office 2013 and have refused to learn from user feedback.
  5. Forced updates
    • Not being able to control what gets installed on "MY PC", is a massive NO! NO!
    • Patching remains Windows 10’s Achilles’ heel, all Windows 10 Home machines, and Windows 10 Pro machines that aren’t hiding behind an update server (such as WSUS or WUB) will get all patches applied according to Microsoft’s time scale.
    • All three of the first Cumulative Update patches have had problems with reboot cycles. KB3081424 on Aug. 5, KB3081436 on Aug. 12, and KB3081438 on Aug. 14 all crashed a bunch of Windows 10 systems. The installer stops mid-installation, flashes an error message, rolls back, and reboots. Then you guessed it -- the forced installer kicks in and crashes Windows again. Rinse, lather, repeat. Getting out of the mess involves editing the registry.
    • We haven’t yet seen how Micro$oft will recover from a really bad update, the experience to date with the three Cumulative Updates does not instil confidence. We don’t know if Microsoft will start documenting its patches again. We don’t know if much effort will be directed at fixing and improving the Microsoft-supplied Universal apps.
    • Windows 10 installer takes a look at your system and based on the hardware and software it finds, assigns your request to a bucket of similar upgrade requests. The guys running the upgrade system, prioritize your request based on their assessment of how likely your system is to bomb out on an upgrade.
  6. Key apps, such as Mail and Edge, STILL aren’t ready yet
    • Some of Windows 10’s key apps simply half baked. Mail  has a nasty habit of putting notifications in the upper-left corner and leaving them hanging forever. There’s no combined Inbox, so if you have multiple accounts you have to jump from Inbox to Inbox. And it crashes hard -- for a lot of people.
    • Edge, the new browser, similarly has all sorts of rough "edges". There are no extensions yet, thus no AdBlocker. Changing the search engine is tortuous, moving tabs onto the desktop and back again doesn’t work and you can’t pin tabs.
    • In short use what ever mail/browser you wrere using on previous OS.
  7. Not much in the way of Universal apps
    • Don't believe the marketing bollox about all of those wonderful Universal apps in Windows 10, whether it’s on a desktop, notebook, phone, Raspberry Pi, it ain't happening. The Windows Store is still by and large a wasteland, with crap apps galore.
  8. Win10’s Tablet Mode broken
    • First, there’s the menu on the left that tucks away the entries on the left side of the Start menu. It collapses fine, but when it’s collapsed it rarely shows any more tiles than when it’s not collapsed. What’s the point, eh?
    • Universal app windows have that pesky taskbar permanently tacked on the bottom, while the window bar at the top auto-hides. Edge, when running full screen, doesn’t support any of the old Metro IE swipe commands. You can’t swipe through running apps. The apps themselves? The irony is M$ Office on the iPad is better than M$ Office on Windows 10.
  9. OneDrive regression
    • This concern applies only if you use OneDrive in Windows 8.1, and if you put a lot of stuff in OneDrive. For those of you using OneDrive in Windows 7 (and Windows 8), there’s no change in behavior with Win10. But if you’re accustomed to seeing all of your OneDrive files in Windows 8.1’s File Explorer, you’ll be in for a bit of a shock.
    • Windows 10 makes you choose which OneDrive folders you want to be able to see in File Explorer. Once you’ve made that choice, the other folders aren’t accessible in File Explorer. The only way to see what files you have in OneDrive is by venturing to the OneDrive website.
  10. Missing Media Center and DVD player
    • For those people that run Windows Media Center, its gone in Windows 10 PC. Instead Micro$oft wants you to use/buy an Xbox.
  11. Ain’t broke, don’t fix it
    • The old adage comes from experience and it’s as applicable now as it ever was.
    • If you’re using Windows 7/8/8.1, and it’s properly patched up and working for you, and you’ve stopped using Internet Explorer, you really have to consider whether it’s worth the effort to upgrade to Windows 10. Carefully consider whether the warning signs listed here.
  12. Still to many questions
    • For example, when you upgrade a “genuine” Win7, Win8 or Win8.1 machine to Win10 and run the upgrade in place, Micro$oft records a hardware ID that says, “this machine has valid license” At that point, you can install either Win7 or Win10 on that machine, and your license will be validated.
    • Its believed that the only version of Win10 that you can disable ALL telemetry and fully control Windows update in, is the enterprise version.
  13. Smells like Teen Spirit  desperation
  14. Compatibility issues
  15. Upgrade Nagware
  • Microsoft is still coming up with way to try and force users to upgrade from 7/8/8.1 - if you like me want to block 7 prevent this crap checkout GWX control panel or Never10


#2 SeriousToni

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 07:13 AM

Haha I had to laugh when you always spelled Microsoft with an $ in it ^_^ But seriously, thank you for the list. Finally an easily readable page with lots of good informations about this topic from a technical person like you, that should know it best! ;)

 

What happened to disturb me when I was testing Windows 10 was especially the inconsistency in design. First they had those really ugly far-too-flat icons which they changed in the last minute to some more overthought flat icons, which work better, BUT still they're using symbols from Windows 7 and even Windows XP, wtf...? There were even text messages clipping into borders like in the start menu, when you shut down the computer. Optically it was a cluttered design which made it all feel like it is not ready to use yet (not to mention the technical issues it has).

 

The best thing is, that my motherboard doesn't support Win 10 (I contacted the Gigabyte support because I had so many issues with it) and still Windows 10 wants to install itself again and again (I deleted it since it didn't work with my motherboard). It's so annoying... -_-


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

#3 Bikerdude

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 09:43 AM

The best thing is, that my motherboard doesn't support Win 10 (I contacted the Gigabyte support because I had so many issues with it) and still Windows 10 wants to install itself again and again (I deleted it since it didn't work with my motherboard). It's so annoying...

You need to uninstall KB3035583 and then hide that update so it never tries to install again. Ive mentioned how in one of my other threads. Or better still download and run the GWX control panel (3rd party) - http://www.ghacks.ne...nd-8-1-systems/



#4 Morat

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 11:04 AM

Windows 10? What Windows 10? I'm still on 7 :)

 

Really, though, #11 is what does it for me. This Acer desktop I bought back in 2008 can still run any game I throw at it, and I see no other reason to update my OS.



#5 Springheel

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:27 PM

I'll change from 7 the moment they stop supporting it, and not a moment sooner.

 

I'd like to get rid of those stupid Win 10 upgrade notices though.  I keep worrying my kids are going to click on it accidently.


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#6 Bikerdude

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:41 PM

I'd like to get rid of those stupid Win 10 upgrade notices though.  I keep worrying my kids are going to click on it accidental.

Simple, just uninstall the KB303583 update, then re-run windows update and hide that particular update - for me it, (kb3035583) has never reappeared.

 

Alternative option to the above that also does a few other things are listed here - http://www.ghacks.ne...nd-8-1-systems/

 

Or the the link to the app -

Attached File  gwx_cp.JPG   89.99KB   0 downloads



#7 Sotha

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:21 PM

Haha!

 

I upgraded my work (employer's) laptop to win10 just to test it while working. With Win10, the machine lost ability to SHUT DOWN until I googled around and fiddled with settings.

 

Pathetic. Stuff like shutting down should work out of the box, crying out loud! How can they botch stuff like that?

 

Definately not upgrading my home computer.


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#8 Bikerdude

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:49 PM

Definately not upgrading my home computer.

Apparently I have reached my number of likes for the day ;)



#9 Anderson

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:19 PM

I'll change from 7 the moment they stop supporting it, and not a moment sooner.

 

I'd like to get rid of those stupid Win 10 upgrade notices though.  I keep worrying my kids are going to click on it accidently.

 Yes it's going to take forever to install unless you get an .iso file on an external usb drive or a virtual drive.



#10 STiFU

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 06:30 PM

I'd like to get rid of those stupid Win 10 upgrade notices though.  I keep worrying my kids are going to click on it accidently.

There's also a quick and easy registry patch to get rid of the upgrade notifications:

http://winsupersite....de-notification



#11 jaxa

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 06:43 PM

As others have said, the Chris Capossela statement was one of those rare examples of FUD against a company's own products with years of compatibility and support ahead of it. Just plain sad.



#12 stumpy

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 09:26 PM

the uk dont get the windows 10 auto updates till 2 days after the us, so if anything goes south, they usually get pulled before they hit the uk. eg tuesday for us, and thursday for uk.



#13 Anderson

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 05:13 AM

What is also disappointing is that outside of the US Cortana doesn't work without tweaks and modifying some settings artificially.

 I installed Windows 10 already though so I don't feel like all the hurdle is worth going back to Windows 7 again - the installation process is equally as painful as it was with previous iterations of Windows (the Windows Update center takes ages to install the update from there). 

But.... I suppose making a free OS doesn't oblige them to forsee that troubleshooting. 



#14 demagogue

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 05:37 AM

Win10 broke intel's graphics driver, so every video and some games are going to crash sooner or later. I thought they'd fix that, considering Intel isn't like such a little player, but updating the driver hasn't done it, and Win10 isn't doing anything. Videos still crash a year later. Ridiculous.
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#15 Anderson

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 06:37 AM

Win10 broke intel's graphics driver, so every video and some games are going to crash sooner or later. I thought they'd fix that, considering Intel isn't like such a little player, but updating the driver hasn't done it, and Win10 isn't doing anything. Videos still crash a year later. Ridiculous.

 Didn't notice that yet. Surprisingly even old games seem to work well. Some have developed graphic anomalies as expected with some pre-2000 games but it is usually easily fixable with compatibility mode and stuff like that. 

 

 YouTube videos do seem to stop for no reason sometimes, but no crashing for me.



#16 demagogue

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 07:24 AM

Watch a video on VLC, then either repeat it or drag another video into it (a few times). Does that crash?
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#17 Anderson

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 09:33 AM

Watch a video on VLC, then either repeat it or drag another video into it (a few times). Does that crash?

 Interesting of you to mention VLC. I used it last time many years ago on Win XP.

Will try that.



#18 Anderson

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 10:01 AM

Also, a useful article if anyone decides to migrate a device to Windows 10 after all: http://home.bt.com/t...-11363997821398



#19 Anderson

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 11:48 AM

Watch a video on VLC, then either repeat it or drag another video into it (a few times). Does that crash?

 Doesn't seem to crash with VLC.

By dragging another video into it you mean opening another video right when the current one is playing?



#20 brethren

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 05:07 PM

I must be in the minority, but I upgraded to Win 10, and have had no issues at all.  I basically took it because it was being offered for free, and I figured I wouldn't have to upgrade again for a long time.  My PC is pretty much used exclusively for gaming and surfing the web, so that may factor in.  Anyway, it's already got 200 million users, so I don't think it's going anywhere.



#21 Bikerdude

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 05:22 PM

Anyway, it's already got 200 million users, so I don't think it's going anywhere.

That figure that M$ are touting is wildly inaccurate, a chunk of that is Xbone user, another chunk is Nokia users. Also M$ are counting total activations, not counting the number of users that realised what turd is it and reverted back to Win7/8.1. I guarantee the amount of actual PC users is far far less.

 

Also Win10 only has 9.9% desktop marketshare, with win8/8.1 @ 13% and Win7 @ 56%. OSX, Linux & others take up the rest.



#22 demagogue

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 11:11 PM

 Doesn't seem to crash with VLC.
By dragging another video into it you mean opening another video right when the current one is playing?

Yes, it seems to be when something is transitioning in its memory it crashes, maybe. To get a guaranteed crash for me, I'd drag a video file into the window while another video is playing, then drag it in again, maybe 3-4 or more times (to guarantee the crash), then it'll start a chain reaction of hanging, black outs, a series of video chip crashes and resets with error reports, and finally a report saying it's disabled vlc access to the video chip.

I'm on a Dell xps 12 convertible, which may be relevant, since video for the laptop/panel flips is already wonky.
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#23 Anderson

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 09:41 AM

Yes, it seems to be when something is transitioning in its memory it crashes, maybe. To get a guaranteed crash for me, I'd drag a video file into the window while another video is playing, then drag it in again, maybe 3-4 or more times (to guarantee the crash), then it'll start a chain reaction of hanging, black outs, a series of video chip crashes and resets with error reports, and finally a report saying it's disabled vlc access to the video chip.

I'm on a Dell xps 12 convertible, which may be relevant, since video for the laptop/panel flips is already wonky.

 I'm on an i3 Dual Core 2.1 Ghz

 

It's a desktop PC, doesn't really have much problems.

 

I dunno, VLC was unstable for as long as I remember it though. Usually I use Media Classic Player because it's more robust in my humble opinion.



#24 kano

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 11:01 AM

Here's some laughs for the day: http://www.zdnet.com...cs-are-missing/

 

TLDR: You can't completely turn it off, nor can you actually inspect what data is being collected, but you shouldn't worry, because Microsoft would never do anything sneeky, underhanded, or against the wishes of the end user.

 

https://forum.eset.c...-1428318020.png

(this one's the update that nags you to upgrade to Windows 10, described as a bug-fix patch in order to trick/slip past you.)

 

https://en.wikipedia...nuine_Advantage

 

http://www.afterdawn..._broadcast_flag

 

Everyone else that provides free products collects data about you and tracks you. We can't have a pro-Microsoft article without bringing out the Google and Facebook Boogiemen. You should be cool with still being required to pay Microsoft $100 when you build a new computer to be subject to this stuff without the gracefulness of an "off" switch, though.

 

All this data collection is being done to make the product better for you, the end user. You guys asked for that Metro interface with those giant buttons on your large PC monitors. You asked for obvious functionality when you're using a mouse, like clicking on the top of the screen and dragging to the bottom to close a Window, or clicking and dragging in from the right to open a menu, when on-screen buttons made things infinitely more friendly for beginners and didn't require any training for existing users who upgrade. You also asked for Media Center to be ripped out, so you get the privilege of paying for something else that you used to get free with Windows. You asked for advertising to be built into the OS. (http://www.addictive...-in-windows-10/)

 

Its totally not spying if I were to sit outside and log what you do and when, whether you like it or not. (you can't turn this stuff completely OFF in Windows 10) "He went to the fridge twice in the last two hours, and used the bathroom three times so far today. Now he's eating Cheet-o's and playing Unreal Tournament.

 

All data that is collected is anonymous, though Microsoft does COLLECT A DEVICE ID as stated in the article and they obviously get an IP address too. Is that device ID a GUID? Funny how the article doesn't say. There were also several times in the past where collected "anonymous" data turned out to not be so anonymous after all. (AOL anyone?)


Edited by kano, 07 January 2016 - 11:04 AM.


#25 demagogue

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 11:32 AM

 I'm on an i3 Dual Core 2.1 Ghz
 
It's a desktop PC, doesn't really have much problems.
 
I dunno, VLC was unstable for as long as I remember it though. Usually I use Media Classic Player because it's more robust in my humble opinion.


Windows Media Player sometimes has the problem too, just not as often. And did you say your graphics were the Intel chip (not a proper graphics card)? All indications are the Intel chip driver just doesn't want to play along. While I don't really get flickering, the driver apparently has other problems too -- https://communities....contents/407690
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