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NeonsStyle (Venus) Work In Progress


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#401 Obsttorte

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:48 PM

How is this done Obsttorte? I know how to use those movers, but not how to mix them. 

As mentioned above you can bind different mover types to each other and then bind the boat to this setup, and let it move along a spline. That's a bit messy for my testing, though, not to mention the movement will probably get a bit repetetive after while. If you use a func_mover (which you need for the spline movement anyways) it makes more sense to create the bobbing and swinging of the boat via script, which also has the benefit of randomizing it a bit more. It heavely depends on your specific use-case how complex the setup has to be.

 

In regards to the player you can either bind a toggleable, invisible wall to the boat or immobilize the player while the boat is moving, so he doesn't fall into the water ;) I would prefer the latter (easier).

 

BTW: For the future it might be worth considering performance before and during your mapping progress, and not only towards the end. This way you don't have to fallback to such auxiliary solutions.


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#402 NeonsStyle

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:36 AM

Two questions:

 

1. Is it possible to change the colour of a glass texture? I want a very specific colour for a glass sculpture in a shop window in a glassware shop in my Venice map. You

can't do Venice without a Glassware shop. lol

 

2. Is it possible to change the colour of a water entity? Venice has very green murky water, and we have the green_thick_murk texture,

but you can see the bottom clearly. Bikerdude solved the clarity problem both above and below the water, but the colour is very grey blue

and it really needs to be grey green. Is it possible?


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#403 Obsttorte

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:11 AM

Two questions:

 

1. Is it possible to change the colour of a glass texture? I want a very specific colour for a glass sculpture in a shop window in a glassware shop in my Venice map. You

can't do Venice without a Glassware shop. lol

 

2. Is it possible to change the colour of a water entity? Venice has very green murky water, and we have the green_thick_murk texture,

but you can see the bottom clearly. Bikerdude solved the clarity problem both above and below the water, but the colour is very grey blue

and it really needs to be grey green. Is it possible?

  1. Yes
  2. Yes

:)

 

The only precaution is that the material in question uses the colored keyword. Such materials are normally named _colored, _colorme or similar. In that case you can vary the color using the _color spawnarg.


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#404 Destined

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:44 AM

You can also create a new material file for the glass textures, if it does not have the colored keyword. Then, you can create a new skin for any objects that use the material you want to colour. I've done this for some of Springheel's modules with a plain white plaster texture to introduce some colour (but unfortunately lost the files in my latest HD crash), so if you need help setting it up you can PM me.

#405 Obsttorte

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 03:44 AM

You can also create a new material file for the glass textures, if it does not have the colored keyword. Then, you can create a new skin for any objects that use the material you want to colour. I've done this for some of Springheel's modules with a plain white plaster texture to introduce some colour (but unfortunately lost the files in my latest HD crash), so if you need help setting it up you can PM me.

This is fine if you only need one new color, but if you want several ones or want to change it later on this can become a quiet tiresome approach.


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
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Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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#406 Judith

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 04:25 AM

If you want the high quality though, and especially if that's a dedicated object, you'd want manual approach. The best way to create high quality glass is to work with standard _d, _n, _s material with translucent keyword, and then to add the heathazewithdepth program stage to simulate refraction (you'll need a dedicated normalmap to do this). You may also need a cubemap to fake the glass reflecting the environment a bit better. This is one of the most complex material you can have in the game, and the glass is one of the hardest effects to fake in games, so it might take some time to get it right.



#407 Destined

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:59 AM

This is fine if you only need one new color, but if you want several ones or want to change it later on this can become a quiet tiresome approach.

Why? Especially if you want several colours, it is better to add the colored keyword to an existing material, as you can change the colour in via spawnarg in DR. You need one for each material you want to change and need a new skin for each model using the new material, which admittedly is quite tiresome, and you can not change several colours in one model, as it uses the one spawnarg for the whole model, but once set up, you have all colours of the rainbow at your disposal for that model. All in all it is not perfect, but for a couple of materials (e.g. plaster) it is quite helpful. You just have to be careful, which colours you can use as many (especially very saturated colours) look very unnatural.

 

If you want the high quality though, and especially if that's a dedicated object, you'd want manual approach. The best way to create high quality glass is to work with standard _d, _n, _s material with translucent keyword, and then to add the heathazewithdepth program stage to simulate refraction (you'll need a dedicated normalmap to do this). You may also need a cubemap to fake the glass reflecting the environment a bit better. This is one of the most complex material you can have in the game, and the glass is one of the hardest effects to fake in games, so it might take some time to get it right.

I have no experience with glass in regard to the colored keyword and I completely agree that it will not yield the best results regarding quality. He would have to test and see the results. For the plaster texture, it works quite well.



#408 NeonsStyle

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:49 AM

So it's the same as changing the colour of a texture? I did this with the buildings. 

 

Judith, I have no idea how to do that. I would love for it to be high quality as it's a sculpture that would fit in well in a Venice glass shop,

but the glass textures we have look pretty crap on it to be honest. What I'd like is that green plate glass look. (the green on the edge of plate glass). 

 

I'll try messing with the _coloured_ and see if I can get something acceptable. I used that blue glass, but oddly it glows blue. lol


I have an eclectic YouTube channel making videos on a variety of games. Come and have look here:
 
https://www.youtube.com/c/NeonsStyleHD

 

Dark Mod Missions: Briarwood Manor - available here or in game

http://forums.thedar...2017-update-16/

 

 

 


#409 Judith

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:53 AM

I can take a look at that, if you provide the model and the textures.



#410 Obsttorte

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 02:51 AM

Why? Especially if you want several colours, it is better to add the colored keyword to an existing material, as you can change the colour in via spawnarg in DR. You need one for each material you want to change and need a new skin for each model using the new material, which admittedly is quite tiresome, and you can not change several colours in one model, as it uses the one spawnarg for the whole model, but once set up, you have all colours of the rainbow at your disposal for that model. All in all it is not perfect, but for a couple of materials (e.g. plaster) it is quite helpful. You just have to be careful, which colours you can use as many (especially very saturated colours) look very unnatural.

 

I have no experience with glass in regard to the colored keyword and I completely agree that it will not yield the best results regarding quality. He would have to test and see the results. For the plaster texture, it works quite well.

He was talking about changing the glass/water color only, not several colors on one model! And with your approach a new material/skin is needed, too. I don't really get your point here. :|

 

If you want the high quality though, and especially if that's a dedicated object, you'd want manual approach. The best way to create high quality glass is to work with standard _d, _n, _s material with translucent keyword, and then to add the heathazewithdepth program stage to simulate refraction (you'll need a dedicated normalmap to do this). You may also need a cubemap to fake the glass reflecting the environment a bit better. This is one of the most complex material you can have in the game, and the glass is one of the hardest effects to fake in games, so it might take some time to get it right.

I don't see how it will worsen quality if you color an existing glass material using the colored keyword, especially as there are already a couple of glass materials using it. The quality will be the same as with the standard, uncolored material. Your point is valid if you want to have better or different looking glass/water as shipped with the mod, but again, that wasn't what he was asking for.

 

And even following your approach I don't see a reason not to use the colored keyword. The only exception would be if you don't want the material to be colored uniformly.


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Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
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Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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#411 Judith

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 03:00 AM

No, I wouldn't want to have a uniform color for any material, as it looks too artificial. It also depends on how the model was unwrapped. If it has simple projection mapping and it uses a tiling texture, then yes, the final result will be a worse quality one, than a model fully unwrapped in 0-1 UV space, with its own set of textures and a material. It all depends on what Neon wants to achieve with this model.



#412 Destined

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 05:50 AM

He was talking about changing the glass/water color only, not several colors on one model! And with your approach a new material/skin is needed, too. I don't really get your point here. :|

My point was, if he wants to make a glassmaker's shop, he may want to have more coloured glass models. In that case, the colored keyword would help to bring in variety by using the same model with different colours. I agree that this only makes sense, if he uses more than one instance due to the need of new materials/skins. I missed that it was meant only for one model. Still, with no experience in retexturing, this might be a workaround even if it means more work.



#413 Obsttorte

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 05:30 PM

No, I wouldn't want to have a uniform color for any material, as it looks too artificial. It also depends on how the model was unwrapped. If it has simple projection mapping and it uses a tiling texture, then yes, the final result will be a worse quality one, than a model fully unwrapped in 0-1 UV space, with its own set of textures and a material. It all depends on what Neon wants to achieve with this model.

You don't get an uniform color just by using the colored keyword. It works as a multiplicator, so it heavely depends on what you are using it on. For colored windows reflecting the state of the light in the room behind them it is actually more then suitable. In addition, you don't neccessarely have to use it on grayscale images only.

 

Also, why are you talking about models in general? Neon was quiet specifically asking for glass (ok, on a statue, but still) and water. Especially in the later case it sounded like all he wanted was to change the color hue from blue to green. IIRC I've used the colored method on the statues in the chapel in my Old Habits rebuild, and noone ever complained on it looking artificial.


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
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Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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#414 Judith

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 07:56 PM

But it's not for windows in this case, this is a glass sculpture. And it's obvious that custom texture beats simple multiply by color operation, because you can have more natural looking objects with color variation. And I'm talking about the way models are made and textured because it has direct impact on their look and material / shading quality.

Edited by Judith, 15 January 2019 - 08:07 PM.


#415 Obsttorte

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 02:55 AM

The window thing was an example ;)

Two questions:

 

1. Is it possible to change the colour of a glass texture? I want a very specific colour for a glass sculpture

To me this doesn't sound like he is aiming for something as complex as you suggest. I don't say your approach is wrong, but it is more time-consuming and should be worth it. Whether that is the case in this scenario I can't tell as I haven't seen the mission, but if the statue is only an eyecatcher in a location the player may not even has to visit, investing hours in a modeling program to get the look right might be a bit like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. My suggestion takes less then five minutes to implement, and if neon is unhappy with the result, he can still bring in the big guns. :)


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
My wiki articles: Obstipedia
Let's Map TDM YouTube playlist: ObstlerTube
Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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