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movers no longer cause damage?


teh_saccade

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Testing new section, replaying through level.

A bunch of my traps no longer work if player "blocks" with flimsy sword. Discovered by accident when messing around.

Whole section can now walk through without taking damage, totally ignore "traps" - no longer damaged by fast mover, sharp object, spinning wheel of blades - can simply block and that's that.

idMovers no longer cause damage? http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=TDM_Movers

What is a workaround for this?

Any way to make mover cause damage without having to set up some stim/response (eg "set it on [invisible] fire").

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"Elevator" trap no longer crushes player if press wrong button sequence - simply stops. (with sword block).

So... a massive lump of metal plummeting onto the player is stopped by blocking with a sword. No damage. No need to dodge or jump/mantle to avoid falling blocks.

Am I gonna have to delete that whole section and rebuild it differently?

//worked fine last week. This week - nullifies whole section - pressure plate spear-from-wall trap and everything. Block with sword. No damage.

Edited by teh_saccade
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I think there are some arg options for this... We recently discussed this same thing internally but I'll need to comb through

that to parse where 2.04 stands.

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Thank you - I was just about to press the delete button and scrap the whole area.

Also cannot lure AI haunts into traps to "kill" them.

Doom-style flying skulls are now totally useless (//saves figuring out the "lock onto player position" script for mover path, I guess - I was struggling with that one) but i guess it's cool to be able to block them rather than be nimble and simply side-step projectile, since not everyone is as fast on the keys.

Also noticed that blocking in "correct" direction is automatic now, which has taken all the skill out of sword fights. It's mindless "block, attack, block, attack, block, attack" not "read AI intent, react accordingly, counter, read AI intent, dodge / jump block, attack, attack, read AI intent to attack, etc...).

Edited by teh_saccade
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OK, it seems that this is fixed in 2.05.

 

For 2.04, you'd need to add a trigger_hurt to the bottom of the elevator:

 

https://modwiki.xnet.fi/Trigger_hurt_%28entity%29

 

use a script or a stim.

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Also noticed that blocking in "correct" direction is automatic now, which has taken all the skill out of sword fights. It's mindless "block, attack, block, attack, block, attack" not "read AI intent, react accordingly, counter, read AI intent, dodge / jump block, attack, attack, read AI intent to attack, etc...).

 

This can be set in the menu (Settings->Gameplay->Difficulty->Melee: Auto-Parry). I am not sure if it was automatically set to "auto parry" with the latest update, but you can simply disable it here.

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//worked fine last week. This week - nullifies whole section - pressure plate spear-from-wall trap and everything. Block with sword. No damage.

 

 

Are you building with SVN or the 2.04 release?

 

There's no reason behaviour should change if the latter, unless you have a corrupted .cm file.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Springheel: Please see attached image.




TL;DR - I'm taking a break from that area and going back to "above ground" modelling of the "free-roam" city.

It was weird to be able to "block" all the "elevators" that were the "falling rubble" when climbing a particular mine-shaft, rather than have to time movement... It'd jam them all up, because they'd simply stop and more would keep falling, stacking - it was even possible to block the bottom one and then climb the whole section by blocking, mantle, repeat... defeating purpose of challenge and meaning it was possible to avoid entire sections of the map.

(I'm such a cheater...).





loaded module list continues:


ArchivePK4, Camera, Clipper, CommandSystem, ConversationEditor, Counters, DarkMod Editing, DifficultyEditor, Doom3BrushCreator, Doom3EntityCreator, Doom3MapLoader, Doom3PrefabLoader, EClassTree, EntityClassManager, EntityInspector, EntityList, EventManager, FileTypes, FilterSystem, FontManager, GUI Editing, GameManager, Grid, ImageLoader, LanguageManager, LayerSystem, MD5AnimationCache, MainFrame, MainFrameLayoutManager, Map, MapCompiler, MapFormatManager, MapResourceManager, MaterialManager, ModelCache, ModelLoader3DS, ModelLoaderASE, ModelLoaderFM, ModelLoaderLWO, ModelLoaderMD2, ModelLoaderMD3, ModelLoaderMD5MESH, ModelLoaderMDC, ModelLoaderMS3D, ModelLoaderOBJ, ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN, ModelSkinCache, MouseToolManager, NamespaceFactory, ObjectivesEditor, OpenGL, OrthoContextMenu, OrthoviewManager, ParticlesEditor, ParticlesManager, PatchModuleDef2, PatchModuleDef3, PreferenceSystem, Quake3MapLoader, Quake4MapLoader, Radiant, RenderSystemFactory, SceneGraph, SceneGraphFactory, ScriptingSystem, SelectionSetManager, SelectionSystem, ShaderCache, SoundManager, StimResponseEditor, TextureBrowserManager, UIManager, UndoSystem, VirtualFileSystem, XMLRegistry



I am using the latest version of TDM (I think) that is the one installed using the installer for which I helped Freyk with the github English code.


ATM, trying to figure out how to work the "jobs board" (at "city hub") while continuing to use mesh and brush to model areas.

This level will have no difficulty settings re: objectives (difficulty is set by added AI, seeded/random loot areas - that kinda works... and "live" level layout changes through some sneaky mechanical tricks I've incorporated)

----



For the other level, the "simpler/prequel" one - scripted events are the hold-up. eg, wakeup KO'd character on event (loud noise) IF player choose to not kill ("worming death" difficulty), but use "trickster" difficulty and places "kidnap" in objective area before triggering certain "loud" event...

("Leafy lord" is normal difficulty and allows both options) - it's a fkn nightmare, the scripting - I'm an artist, so I know a thing or two about Kali Linux and MCSE and CCNA - but... C++ and Python? nah...

Usually someone else does that part - I've recruited someone to help me figure it out.
We are making good progress. If it cannot be done via scripting with ease - I develop "mechanical" solution by using mapping / "wiring" techniques.

Basic stuff.

 

I've figured a way to "funnel" the sounds using mapping only, no script required, much like my "sound-maze level" that I posted in my old mapping thread as code, to demonstate (along with all the other "new" "things" that don't seem to appear in other levels, but are possible to do within TDM in order to avoid repetitive mansions and increasingly frustrating run-arounds and backtracks / quick-save / quick-loads).

The materials files and all - I am ok with adding new textures and stuff, but... TDM doesn't use textures in the same way that I am used to, so many files I am making / packing into DDS are "not used", and a waste of download / load space.

anyway... rambling.







The spinning blade trap is working again and unblock-able, as are the spears and flying discs - I have given up on completing the "dodge-able homing missiles (flying, flaming skulls that damage via fire stim)", from the necromancers themselves, because I can't figure the py scripting to target the player and they make the area too difficult, eating up too much of my time to figure out...

It was a lot of wiring to get the movers to bind the emitters and brushes and all that stuff...
The scripting... is a pain... I hate it.

I wish someone could help but, as previously stated, no-one really knows how to do it because no-one's done it before / "above paygrade"...

I know it is possible, because I can understand how it would work inside the game engine, but I cannot express it in the right language for the game to understand...

Not worth the entity count, imo.

But the columms in "a necromancer's crypt are" that use the strobe illusion are now causing damage... And the guy keeps talking about his dinner instead of "the summoning must be complete, etc...", which I guess is a mistake on part with barks.

Considering dropping that particular illusion, due to disparity of effectiveness at differing frame-rates.

Idk why I am writing this...




Thanks for the tip about auto-parry - it does seem that a new installation puts it as default.

Well, guess it makes it easier to play - who needs flashbombs and skill anyway?
:P

I've turned it off and the game is now no longer a case of simply "hold button" "press button" - it takes some stimulus - response to win a sword fight (or finish with an arrow in the back before they run off to get help).



I enjoy Dark Messiah and Warband (for which I contributed to conversion mods) and Exanima kinda sword-fight games, enjoyed the "back-stab" of Thief 3 - I think I was speed-run champ for a while in that game for some missions - for which I no longer waste time in map, in favour of TDM (cos TDM is 1000% better, imo).

It seems that it is impossible to "back-stab" in TDM and that's something I miss - esp. on the zombies. (not that they are challenge in any way, to "kill" if the level allows this and you're granted a sword).

Zombies are so 2000-and-late.

Anyway, mapping is taking back-seat in run up to xmas, because my rent is due on 24th Dec. and I need to focus on paid work for a while.

It will continue slowly, patiently, quietly and without fuss.

In between my conversion for No Man's Sky (because that game is too easy - I have to go looking for fights.

The other modders simply make "cheats" or "replace skins" and that's it - this is looking like a total conversion, like with Warband... Idk if it is worth the time, the devs of this game and Necropolis are quite communicative and appreciative of detailed feedback with fixes, have patched and updated from bug/suggestion reports to internal QA.

Totally irrelevant, but... idk I'm typing, so wtf.




Thanks!

Also thanks very much, Destined, for the tip about "turning off" auto-parry - it is on by default on "clean install", yes, it appears.

(I've recently devoted TDM and DR its own SSD in "the big PC", for organisation's sake).

I forgot that it was an option :)



Regards.

Edited by teh_saccade
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  • 1 month later...

Hi - quickly checking in to see if there is any further news on this being re-introduced in a new version of TDM..?


If you play the "tiny demo mission" and stand under the elevator in creep's basement (where the hidden builder statue is) and then push the button to bring the elevator down on yourself - it doesn't apply damage.
If you crouch and let it lower even further - it's possible to get totally stuck under the elevator and, even if you are able to push the switches, you can't raise it and neither will you be crushed to death.

It effectively traps the player without killing them and there's no way out other than restart / reload or noclip...



This kind of damage was critical in a number of puzzles and traps and obstacles in several sections of the campaign on which I am working.
The effect is present in thief 2 (eg, in the kitchen where you go up the dumb-waiter to pickpocket the guard's key, grab a few things, in the mission where you must bird-call Basso).

Try standing under that lift and lowering it on yourself - see if you don't die from being crushed to death by a powered chunk of metal, trash compacting you into a pancake...



I'd like to start going back to my non-lethal/lethal and/or choice/consequence pathways that contain more stealth and puzzle/trap challenges than swordfights, assassination tasks and guards and stuff, as the story / open world progresses (the day to night to day skybox trigger is working now, also) but this "mover causing no damage to player thing" is proving to be a bit of a pain.

If there are plans to re-introduce the effect as standard, it'd save a lot of work... but if there is no plan to re-introduce "movers cause damage" then I think I'll have to delete those whole areas and start again...

It would be good to have some clarification on this subject, so that I can plan my pipeline and workflow over the coming months.

Thanks!

Edited by teh_saccade
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