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Deus Ex mod - like Dark mod is to Thief?


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#51 chakkman

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 10:28 AM

I think any thread on this forum talking about Dark Mod owes it to have this video posted at some point.

 

The one common thread tying Thief and Deus Ex on a deeper level outside of stealth is the focus on immersion, and what that can do on a deeper level.

 

Actually, the things mentioned in the video are why i enjoy games like Fallout so much ATM. Because i can play them the way i want, and the game adjusts to the decisions i make, not vice versa. Actually, they're even quite ok stealth games. Not the most stealth mechanics, and, frankly, the AI is pretty dumb (if they weren't, the game wouldn't be funny anymore either though...), but, good enough to have fun the way that i play.



#52 demagogue

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:41 PM

Here's a small excerpt from the pack. Would these count as 'distinct'?

Artificial environments are tough because by definition they're man-made. The rule was originally thinking of photos of pure grass or dirt. Like the plain white wall could probably pass. The rest are matters of interpretation (it probably wouldn't go this far, but the ultimate decider would be the opinion of a jury if it looks distinct in what they think is general opinion. So you're betting on their answer).

I'd say, to boil it down, that textures not under a clearly open license shouldn't be part of a central package as a rule. But if an individual mapper wanted to slip some of them into their own personal FM because it's indistinct enough in their interpretation, that's the better alternative. The central package itself should be unimpeachable so nothing could ever take it down or call for it to replace assets as far as possible.
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#53 Baal

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 05:16 AM

So high defintion recreations of game assets are generally risky?

 

If we would release a map for demonstration purposes, that uses textures from such packs, the worst that could happen would be, that we would have to take the download down, right?



#54 tefdal

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 09:05 AM

Found some possible textures here, not sure if this is helpful:

 

http://nobiax.devian...acks?offset=168

 

http://nobiax.devian...ck-03-156623646

 

http://nobiax.devian...ck-02-154101783

 

http://nobiax.devian...ck-01-153806426

 

And here a resource for some game art, there are some texture packs in her:

 

opengameart.org



#55 Baal

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 09:20 AM

Thanks, these are not bad. And they seem to be free to use.

Which model formats can the doom engine use?

 

I found some cool materials, too.

pk01_scene.jpg

pk02_scene.jpg



#56 demagogue

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 10:09 AM

So high defintion recreations of game assets are generally risky?
 
If we would release a map for demonstration purposes, that uses textures from such packs, the worst that could happen would be, that we would have to take the download down, right?

They could try to threaten worse, but practically yes, take it down and we'd have to replace the offending textures. If some slipped into a future FM that might not get found, but a demo map and a plugin pk4 would have a higher profile, so probably best to keep them clean.

While we're doing this, would you guys like to brainstorm gameplay features? This is thinking longterm, a few features at a time. We don't have to do it all right away.

- I think guns are in. New animation is the important thing here.

- I think we can keep our lock picking for doors with updated tools. (Doors can have keycards or combo locks.) Shall we have a hacking feature that's an analog to TDM's lockpicking too? My idea is it happens when you frob a console with a multitool and there's electric feed buzzing in a pattern. Actually, I think frobbing a computer opens the screen like a readable. It's a center overlay while real time keeps going, and a cursor arrow appears to click buttons and possibly type a password, which hacking bypasses. I think you'd hack by using the hacking tool while the screen is up.

- Speaking of readables, they can be like pads laying around, and come up like TDM readables with digital art, DX like.

- EMP arrows and mines for electric lights, but maybe some lights have a visible EMP shield.

- Cameras with visual and audio state signals, turrent guns, bots.

Other features?
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#57 Baal

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 10:47 AM

Some thoughts:

  • We could keep lockpickings exactly as it is and include hacking in addition to it. Either as a minigame or just resource based (consumable like the Deus Ex multitool).
  • A grappling hook (basically a reskinned rope arrow) that is somehow restricted in its use. By surface type or something else?
  • An rpg progression system is not needed.
  • Crossbows are cool.
  • ?
  • Profit


#58 freyk

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 01:38 PM

- I think guns are in. New animation is the important thing here.

No and yes.
No i don't want them in, because i dont want that users gun-blazing all the enemies in a mission away.
Yes, there are cool, only if they are slow spacing.
At this moment all the weapons and tools in TDM are good enough. But they must have a modern theme.
 

- Speaking of readables, they can be like pads laying around, and come up like TDM readables with digital art, DX like.

And just modern papernotes.

To keep it a bit original, the atmosphere should not be too much scifi.
Not a Deus ex futureday-atmosphere, but like more a splintercell/watchdogs 1 modernday-atmosphere
for example,
Spoiler

Edited by freyk, 06 December 2016 - 05:02 PM.


#59 Moonbo

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 04:15 PM

You might want to check out the DX high rez texture mod (New Vision?), it's a fan project and I'm sure you could get permission to use anything suitable in it.
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#60 freyk

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 04:24 PM

Its easier to do, what TDM does/did.

Going to be hard, when you use product-based things.
quote from dx revision.

"Graphical representations of Deus Ex are reproduced with the permission of the copyright owner."

and license in the spoiler.
Spoiler

Edited by freyk, 06 December 2016 - 04:32 PM.


#61 Baal

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 04:35 PM

We need normal and specular maps also. Deus Ex doesn't use these, right? Apart from that, it's the same problem as with the Duke3d pack.



#62 freyk

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 04:58 PM

Dont know.
Maybe you can use thecompressonator batch processing, to convert things faster.

Status Darkmission-mission1-brieving WIP
20161206
added new menu mousepointer.
added some menu-interface sounds.
added credits list.

Edited by freyk, 06 December 2016 - 05:01 PM.


#63 demagogue

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 05:17 AM

No and yes.
No i don't want them in, because i dont want that users gun-blazing all the enemies in a mission away.
Yes, there are cool, only if they are slow spacing.
At this moment all the weapons and tools in TDM are good enough. But they must have a modern theme.

 

Generally I'm speaking about the next steps after your experiment.

 

You may not want guns for your own FM, that's fine. But if we make a package for many future FMs, I think it's important to have them. One, we already have gun functionality for TDM made now. If we have it, we should use it, or at least make it possible for authors to use them if they want, but they don't have to.

 

I think it's important because guns are a typical part of the genre itself and a lot of authors will want them. If they're thinking of anything like DeusEx, they'll probably want them. I'm thinking about features for a general platform for any kind of FM to be made in this genre, and what's important to have in the genre. But even then my thinking is guns should be limited, e.g., limited ammo.

 

Cf the game Project IGI. That was a very good stealth shooter, where stealth and gun-use were put together very well. Another is the game VietCong. So there are good models to use how to do stealth well with them.


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#64 Baal

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:26 AM

There is this guy, nobiax, that releases a lot of materials and models for free, without any restrictions as far as I can tell. Some examples:

Attached File  screenshot.jpg   99.09KB   0 downloads

Attached File  pattern_10_preview.jpg   295.72KB   0 downloads

 

And this is what he says about usage:

Attached File  readme.txt   901bytes   3 downloads


Edited by Baal, 08 December 2016 - 09:33 AM.


#65 freyk

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:34 AM

in short: its public domain and he would like to send him a postcard.

 

a good find.


Edited by freyk, 08 December 2016 - 09:37 AM.


#66 tefdal

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 11:11 AM

There is this guy, nobiax, that releases a lot of materials and models for free, without any restrictions as far as I can tell. Some examples:

attachicon.gifscreenshot.jpg

attachicon.gifpattern_10_preview.jpg

 

And this is what he says about usage:

attachicon.gifreadme.txt

Yeah this is the same guy I linked to above. Looks like some good stuff there...

 

 

Some thoughts:

  • We could keep lockpickings exactly as it is and include hacking in addition to it. Either as a minigame or just resource based (consumable like the Deus Ex multitool).
  • A grappling hook (basically a reskinned rope arrow) that is somehow restricted in its use. By surface type or something else?
  • An rpg progression system is not needed.
  • Crossbows are cool.
  • ?
  • Profit

 

 

On profit - you can have "credits" in card form.

You could also have "data". Maybe downloading records or picking up files is a second type of stealable just for variety or type of objective? I'm thinking breaking into offices and data servers type thing.

 

demagogue:

Shall we have a hacking feature that's an analog to TDM's lockpicking too? My idea is it happens when you frob a console with a multitool and there's electric feed buzzing in a pattern. Actually, I think frobbing a computer opens the screen like a readable. It's a center overlay while real time keeps going, and a cursor arrow appears to click buttons and possibly type a password, which hacking bypasses. I think you'd hack by using the hacking tool while the screen is up.

 

 

 

Agree that some sort of hacking ability seems key (if you pardon the pun) - and I guess different to "lock picking" although not necessarily. Seems tricky to implement though.


Edited by tefdal, 08 December 2016 - 11:18 AM.


#67 freyk

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:28 PM

Its nice to have your (and others) advices, but we need also people who make them physical.

 

So if you have a idea that you think what we (and/or tdm) need, just create it (or point us to it)  and post an example in this topic/forum.
Then we are happy to integrate/implement it in to our experiment. :D
(like people earlier did, as Baal, demagogue and myself)

 

thanks for posting the links to the textures, tefdal.

How about posting some samples of productions you made.


Edited by freyk, 08 December 2016 - 02:32 PM.


#68 tefdal

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:50 PM

Yes indeed, just was joining in the brainstorming. I dont meant to just fling ideas at you, obviously thats the easy part! Unfortunately I don't have experience with modding id tech or dark mod, although would be quite interested to learn having a background in some JS, gamemaker (and long distant and shakey C and more well understoof BASIC). I never really know where to start, i'm not sure what language its using. It maybe level design would be the first port of call. Because i'm right in the middle of a big project taking up all my time though, I can't really commit but I do want to try making a track for you if possible.

 

If you were curious on some of my music stuff, you can hear that in the link below, but the vibe is not quite the fit for this. The style there is more dubsteppy and using vocal samples, but in a past life have done more trancey stuff, and have been keen to get back into this doing some more 80s synthey, ambient/trancey/what I term "stealth assassin" type music. If I can get something done, you can have a listen and if you prefer to go with what you found, of course, it's your call too.

 

https://soundcloud.com/pwnr



#69 freyk

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:27 PM

With you knowledge and experience, its not so difficult.
With your knowledge that you already have, you can create for example tdm-briefings, -interfaces, sound and music packs, etc
Inside the TDM packages you can find many files you can add/change/remove.
Have a look inside a pk4 file. Its just a zip-file, only with an other fileextension.
Is there something you whish to change inside this, create a zipfile and copy the modified files to it (use the  exact name and folder path) and then rename the fileextension to pk4.
And so created my first TDM-mod, ironman-mode.
 
About the music. If you are Pwnr, TDM and I can certainly use your music.
I love the strings and atmosphere.

At this moment, I can use (for briefing and credits) parts from:
pwnr - little jam demo ft anna yeats (start to 1:11)
pwnr - Real (but not the vocals)
(only if you can license it under a cc-license, or something)

Edited by freyk, 09 December 2016 - 08:49 AM.


#70 Baal

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:22 AM

Tefdal, are your tracks on youtube? Soundcloud doesn't work for me.



#71 demagogue

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:32 PM

Regarding brainstorming, it's more to save work than make new work. There should be a clear idea of the design and what kind of gameplay it should have to focus the work.

But what we can do for now is hold off and let freyk make a package as a base (that others can contribute openly to I imagine). Then after we have that base we can maybe discuss where to go with it. I'm fine wuth just getting a base package of assets put together before anything.
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#72 tefdal

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 08:31 AM

With you knowledge and experience, its not so difficult.
With your knowledge that you already have, you can create for example tdm-briefings, -interfaces, sound and music packs, etc
Inside the TDM packages you can find many files you can add/change/remove.
Have a look inside a pk4 file. Its just a zip-file, only with an other fileextension.
Is there something you whish to change inside this, create a zipfile and copy the modified files to it (use the  exact name and folder path) and then rename the fileextension to pk4.
And so created my first TDM-mod, ironman-mode.
 
About the music. If you are Pwnr, TDM and I can certainly use your music.
I love the strings and atmosphere.

At this moment, I can use (for briefing and credits) parts from:
pwnr - little jam demo ft anna yeats (start to 1:11)
pwnr - Real (but not the vocals)
(only if you can license it under a cc-license, or something)

 

Thanks! Glad you like. Ok well I will need a little while to grab the files I can output loops without the vocals. I dont need to release them underr cc license so much as just let you use them for this project. Main aim though will to make some darker stuff for this along the lines of the first think you found. I'm guessing we have a while because no actual maps ready yet, but I will get on this over next few weeks hopefully.

 

@Baal

 

 

Tefdal, are your tracks on youtube? Soundcloud doesn't work for me.

only a couple of remixes sorry (https://www.youtube....h?v=o1s2ca8wDBk). I can just suggest.. try a new browser?

 

edit. I have put some text for you Freyk in the little jam demo track to prove I am the real pwnr!


Edited by tefdal, 11 December 2016 - 10:17 AM.


#73 freyk

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 10:15 AM

Status Darkmission-mission1- briefing WIP 20162111
Changed some pictures and the background in the briefing.
Created a new briefing to show the credits. (uses other placeholders for the music and images)
Attached the darkmission creditspage to mainmenu credits button.
 
edit
Tefdal is Pwnr (proof received and accepted)
Added tefdal's jam session as backgroundsong to the credits page (and added song-binary to sourcecode).

Edited by freyk, 12 December 2016 - 07:39 AM.


#74 SciFiThief

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 03:56 PM

Hi,

 

I'm a big fan of the Dark Mod and everything the team has managed to do. Such great work, and such great community maps. All for free too - it's really appreciated.

 

I wondered whether anyone had ever thought of doing what Dark Mod is to Thief for Deus Ex - like take the core systems and open it up to a total mod remake? So it would be I guess the core operations like hacking terminals, different security terminals and core skills, and then open source it and the maps? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone will ever do it, it would be a phenomenal workload - just curious really. It seems like it would be the perfect sister to the dark mod? Perhaps the more RPG and story centric nature of the game means it wouldn't be a good fit.

 

I once created a game design document that was essentially a cyberpunk version of "Thief 1/2". I don't have the document on my current computer (if I had to take a guess, I wrote it around 2002-3) but, if you're interested, I'll give you the highlights here as a brainstorming guide. My game-making skills are not good (hence, the game design document and not an actual game) but, if this effort to create a cyberpunk Thief gains traction (regardless if my prior ideas are used), I'll be more than willing to learn how to use DarkRadiant.



#75 freyk

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 05:15 PM

Everybody can help, just create something you think we need, post it on this forum. 
To get you started, read the info on the dark mod wiki.

At this moment would be nice if someone takes a look at, the following tasks:
Create/search a Modern GUI/HUD.
Create modern stealth weapons. (for example, try to get RWM Pack to work in tdm.)
Create/search assets, like furniture, systems, etc

Edited by freyk, 13 December 2016 - 05:27 PM.





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