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What About The Ai


Slash

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you modifcation looks incredible and i wish i could be of some use. but im 17 and in 11th grade with a job so its hard to even get on and check these updates. but my question is about the AI. the AI in D3 is retarted. monsters will find you even if they dont see you. have you guys messed with the AI at all. guging by the quality of work ive seen by you guys and with a engen as powerfull as D3 i would believe any thing is posible.

DO you think you can make them close to what Thief 3 is or even better?

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Ahh, the ai. So far, they won't see you if the lightgem is dark, they will hear you if you make a noise (like jump, walk, etc) and they are quite capable of killing. Though they are in the more starting phase, at least say the coders.

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Check out the frontpage update.

 

We've implemented a very rudimentary AI system, but it is already more attuned to stealth gaming than D3's AI.

 

AI now only attack you if:

 

They see you: You are in their FOV, You have a bright enough lightgem value, are close enough to them and they look at you long enough.

 

They feel you (you bump into them or they bump into you while on patrol)

 

AI will be alerted and start searching for you if:

 

-They sort've see you but you hide yourself before they fully see you

 

-They hear you or any other suspicious sound (arrows thunking into walls, other AI's screaming for help, etc)

 

-You throw something and it hits them or makes a loud sound

 

So they don't just all charge you all the time like vanilla D3's AI did. We still have a ways to go though before we get anywhere near the complexity of Thief's AI.

Edited by Ishtvan
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I'd also like to see guards go on a minimal alert:

  • If they see a moss patch appear in an area that they didn't see it in previosly
  • A torch or lightsource goes out within their field of view
  • Objects like crates and table ornaments moved a fair distance from previous location

How possible is this Ishtvan?

Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!
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I'm no coder, but i have done a bit. To my knowledge it is easily possible. could be done like this:

 

For moss, when spawns, it puts a Suspicious thing actor there which AI can see.

 

For torch, same as aboce, just a torchout actor for example.

 

For table, at the begining of a map it places an actor where the table is. If the table moves further then a certain radius from this actor, it "activates" the actor and the ai can see it.

 

In a word:

Yes :)

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The first two are quite easy to do. The second one is also possible, but requires a little more thought from what I've heard in our discussions.

 

The moss one is a tricky bit. We've had discussions on this too. It's very easy to make AI notice, and realistically they should, but it really cuts down on the usefulness of moss arrows. You're gaining a limited noise advantage but losing a visual one. We'll probably wind up doing something where AI notice it if it's really out of place, like in the middle of a lit marble floor, but most of the time they won't see it. It's a tricky issue.

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I'd also like to see guards go on a minimal alert:
  • If they see a moss patch appear in an area that they didn't see it in previosly
     
  • A torch or lightsource goes out within their field of view
     
  • Objects like crates and table ornaments moved a fair distance from previous location

How possible is this Ishtvan?

All of these are planned but not yet implemented. When they will be implemented I can't say. We only have a few coders and I won't be able to do much with the AI for a while since I'm working on other stuff.

Edited by Ishtvan
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It'd be nice to see better balancing than in Thief, and of course, bigger weight given to things happening in front of the AI's eyes. If they had their back turned, perhaps the torch just blew out, or something, but when they say it just snuff, without a wind, and perhaps with what looks like water dripping off it... More suspicious :)

 

I agree on the moss thing... And only a small amount of suspicion, so that you can carry on moving after a little while.

--

Somethin' fishy's goin' on here... Come on out, you taffer!

 

~The Fishy Taffer

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IMO the major problem is not to detect the moss, but to determine if the moss patch is a reason to being noticed in relation to the context.

 

In a museum the sudden appearance of a moss patch should cause VERY big suspicion, while the same in the street or on a metal bridge, should be not much of a concern. After all, moss on a bridge is not something that is totally out of place.

So this is more a problem of the context, then the issue itself. But we already decided to implement certain modifiers, so an FM author can influence a bit and give hints what a given room is about.

Gerhard

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Would it be possible to set it up so that the AI notices moss patches if they're spread across certain surfaces? Like if you were to shoot an arrow at a tiled marble floor it could have a suspicion tag applied along with it. But for a situation like Spar mentioned above, they wouldn't notice it.

 

Think of it as something like...erm...suspicion shaders.

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Yeah. That would probably make sense. But then again. Considering a ruined castle with Zombies in it, it can still have broken marble floors where moss might be a normal occuring because of the environment. I guess applying such considerations by default, but allow the FM designer to switch it off for his particular environment is the best solution to this.

Gerhard

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Yeah, those surface types are pretty powerful. As long as when a floor is covered in moss it keeps the floor texture intact, it should be possible to do a trace thru the moss to see what surface it's on. I'm not sure if this will work if we make the moss a decal, I'm not sure what texture a trace would return if you hit a decal texture overlaid on a regular texture, would have to look into that.

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Remember that moss will _grow_ on absolutely anything. I think the best way to detect it is distance from other growing stuff. If you decided to put marble tiles all down a street, you'd probably get moss in it, at least in the cracks. I suppose not über moss growth but... whatever.

Alternatively, whether the moss is inside or outside, or how far inside it is? Meh. Seems to me that people are probably only going to use it on marble or metal, so..

--

Somethin' fishy's goin' on here... Come on out, you taffer!

 

~The Fishy Taffer

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Yeah. That would probably make sense. But then again. Considering a ruined castle with Zombies in it, it can still have broken marble floors where moss might be a normal occuring because of the environment. I guess applying such considerations by default, but allow the FM designer to switch it off for his particular environment is the best solution to this.

The best solution to that would be to do what you said and make it a surface variable, or just make some of our AI not notice it.

 

Zombies obviously wouldn't give half a hell damn for moss growing where it shouldn't. The only thing they care about is shuffing about slowing and eating brains.

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Well, there can be other scenarios. A pagan territory in a run down section of the city. A mission where some secret transaction is about to take place in a ruined mansion and the player must prevent it. The place is sealed of with guards even though this place is assumed to be long abandoned. That's just two scenarios that come to my mind when I don't really think even about particular settings.

Gerhard

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Also if we don't differentiate the surface type for "interior stone" and "exterior stone", you could have something like a rock in the outside perimeter of a mansion that the player wants to run over, but puts moss on it to dampen the noise. Guards probably wouldn't notice extra moss on a rock outside, but they would notice it on a stone tile inside, which would use the same texture [edit: Meant to say "surface type" ] (again assuming we don't have a different surface type for interior stone tile and exterior stone rock)

Edited by Ishtvan
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Sounds to me like the best bet would be to give FM designers the ability to add 'notice moss patches' attributes, but don't apply them by default (normal Thief behaviour, safe route?) then they'll be able to add it easily, say, inside mansions and so on, if that's how they want it to play. Of course, if their moss is magical, invisible moss, then no-one cares.

--

Somethin' fishy's goin' on here... Come on out, you taffer!

 

~The Fishy Taffer

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