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DarkRadiant 2.2.1 released


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#51 teh_saccade

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:52 AM

Found the problem - I was using the TDMupdate that Freyk gave me last year during the English localisation.
It was stuck in a loop with CRC and didn't update to latest game/pk4's. The check for the latest game updater came after the downloading of the older game files, which caused it to believe it had to update an older TDMupdate to only 96.4%(?).

As such, it appears that this was the cause of all the missing textures and errors.

Downloading the latest TDMupdate and bringing TDM to latest version - DR appears to be recognising all textures and shaders in new map and is not throwing any errors on map creation or restart (although most older maps are still without lights).

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#52 Spooks

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:01 PM

I've found that groups don't save over in prefabs - once you ungroup a prefab after importing it everything's on its own. Makes sense, the grouping information is saved in the .darkradiant file. Greebo, how feasibly would you say it'd be to make it so grouping information is also stored in .pfb files?


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#53 The Dark One

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:55 PM

I'm not sure if this is the right thread (and if it isn't I apologize) but which version of this do I download? x64 or 32-bit? I'm assuming there's a difference here, I just don't know what it is.


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#54 Destined

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:42 AM

Not sure about any differences, but I would just download the version that fits your OS (just like any other application). So, if you have Win x86 (32-bit), you use the 32-bit version, if you have a 64-bit OS, you use the 64-bit version. In doubt, you can usually run 32-bit applications on a 64-bit OS, so if you use the 32-bit version, you should be able to run it in any case. If you are not sure, which OS type you have, you can right-click on "Computer" in your explorer and look at the properties. Under "System" you can find "System type" that describes which OS you have.


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#55 greebo

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:33 AM

I've found that groups don't save over in prefabs - once you ungroup a prefab after importing it everything's on its own. Makes sense, the grouping information is saved in the .darkradiant file. Greebo, how feasibly would you say it'd be to make it so grouping information is also stored in .pfb files?

 

The .pfb files are using virtually the same format as the regular idTech4 .map files. That format doesn't support saving extra information, that's why the .darkradiant files are necessary. While I'm pretty sure the grouping info would be discarded when loading prefabs, importing a PFB including grouping info might be something that's causing trouble anyway, it's a case I haven't considered yet.



#56 Destined

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:39 AM

Please remind me: How can I select a single entity in a group again? I forgot and cannot find the info in the forums at the moment. Didn't we have a discussion about the grouping feature somewhere?



#57 Spooks

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:19 PM

 

The .pfb files are using virtually the same format as the regular idTech4 .map files. That format doesn't support saving extra information, that's why the .darkradiant files are necessary. While I'm pretty sure the grouping info would be discarded when loading prefabs, importing a PFB including grouping info might be something that's causing trouble anyway, it's a case I haven't considered yet.

 

Ah, that's fine then. It's as I suspected. @Destined, currently you can't select single entities from within a group. A workaround you might use would be to ungroup, do whatever you want with your group part, then re-group. If you don't want to click on a bunch of parts again you can either inverse-select to hide all other things in the map for easier selection or make a temporary selection set (type a name in that textbox next to the "Make Decal" button).


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#58 Destined

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:59 AM

Hm, ok, I was quite sure I had read somewhere, that it was possible... I believe the easiest way would be the "hide all else" and the ungroup, change and group again approach. Will do that, thanks!

 

Edit: I have quickly whipped up a Wiki article "Grouping" to describe the feature, so people can find all necessary information in the Wiki, as this is the first plae I would look myself. Another question I thought of while writing the article: Do the individual parts of one group still count as several entities regarding the entity limit or is it possible that way to reduce the entity count? If I have missed something else, please tell me and I will add any further information.


Edited by Destined, 22 April 2017 - 05:13 AM.

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#59 Spooks

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 04:34 PM

No, grouping is strictly a Dark Radiant feature and does not reduce entity count. You can mention that groups nest in each other and their structure persists when duplicated. You can also resize multiple brushes inside a group the same way you would regular ones, just drag outwards in the orthoview. Same with resizing lights.


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#60 teh_saccade

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 06:52 AM

No, grouping is strictly a Dark Radiant feature and does not reduce entity count.

 

Nuts...
I'd just started doing this on a new map in hopes that it would "reduce entity count" - thanks for saving me a lot of wasted time, Spooks - I owe you a cookie.

Would exporting the grouped object (eg, a building with much facade and exterior detail) as a prefab make it count as one entity?

Not sure how to proceed. Don't really want to get into modelling a whole building as single brush and then apply texture to individual faces, but perhaps this is the best way to skin the outside of a building despite the extra hassle - would I be correct in thinking that a building that is a single mesh might count as one entity..?



// eg, if I made these buildings into a single piece, by either remodelling each using mesh and textured each face, or combining and reskinning - rather than adding brushes / meshes and deleting unseen faces as has been my practise up til now - would it help reduce the entity count by a large amount..?

// metal would inherit things such as footstep noise and other properties from the texture, is this right..? I wouldn't have to mess with anything technical? Thanks.

 

This is the wrong thread for this, but the subject came up, so...

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Edited by teh_saccade, 30 April 2017 - 07:15 AM.

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#61 Spooks

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 10:17 AM

No, exporting it as a prefab will not work. Luckily, you don't have to learn to model, Dark Radiant has export scripts that allow you to export brushwork to .ase models. Use the blended .ASE exporter, make sure what you want to export is in the center of the map (to ensure proper origin point placement) and you're done.
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#62 teh_saccade

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 11:12 AM

Thank you - I'll give it a shot.



#63 NeonsStyle

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:57 AM

Someone mentioned you can scale models by selecting their vertices, but how do you do that? I've never heard of that

for models. V doesn't work.


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#64 nbohr1more

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:09 PM

Someone mentioned you can scale models by selecting their vertices, but how do you do that? I've never heard of that

for models. V doesn't work.

 

http://forums.thedar...e-2#entry400283


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#65 Bikerdude

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:50 PM

This is the wrong thread for this, but the subject came up, so...

Very nice work there fella, nice random and varied architecture!



#66 teh_saccade

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:27 PM

Thanks Biker - behind the mesh is a shipping area that goes bonkers when the alarm goes off and the rest of the moving searchlights come on (might be a bit too difficult - I get caught often).

I'm kinda cheating by simply stealing building ideas from in my town - I mean, you start in my flat and basicaly rob all my neighbours and the shops and stuff... keeping a lot of places tighter now, like they would've been at the time.
Many routes to different places, tall and with as many places accessible as possible. Get past this person by sneaking? Cosh? Distract? Or find a secret route to bypass or [accidentally] drop a crate on 'em?

Still can't get seeded loot to always hit the surface (random floating coins) or fill the street with seeded AI with random interest working...

Anyway... Now I know that we can do campaigns in DR (which I didn't before) I can make smaller levels and no more FU entity limit as each section can be played in sequence this way - I'm glad it came up in another thread, cos no mission I've played in TDM has been a "campaign" - it's always been "xxxx 1", "xxxx 2", etc...

I guess cos ppl can't wait to get each one out as it's completed, which is understandable as it's very exciting to finish a level.

Until you play it again a few weeks later and find the massive mistakes you missed last time and might be able to do that bit a little nicer, fiddle fiddle...



#67 Destined

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:23 AM

The missions list on the main page specifies, if a release is a single mission or a campaign. Just took a look at the missions list on the Wiki. There this information appears to be missing (maybe I will find time later to add it). According to this list there are currently three campaigns: "A House of Locked Secrets", "No Honot Among Thieves", and "Quinn Co.". From what I have read on the forums, most people rather release missions as single missions (even if they are connected), because it often takes a lot of time to get the follow up mission ready (if ever) and they prefer to have people play their missions as soon as possible. It is possible to pack the single missions into a campaign even after release, but most people don't bother with that, as the missions are already released. Maybe with permission of the authors, a second person could set the campaigns up. This would also tidy up the missions list.



#68 teh_saccade

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:22 AM

I've not re-dl'd the old house of locked secrets and stuff (the ghosts and airship one?), nor no honour, but I have played them both... I can't remember quinn co.
Will check them out again.

Yeah it would tidy up the missions list a lot - Make it neater and also put some in order (eg, the accountant series is split miles apart because of the names).
Also, it would save me about 10 meters of mouse-life and 13-14 clicks, disregarding "loading" restarts, in order to be able to download and play a whole campaign.

That might be a good project to work on - to compile all those single missions into a campaign and denote it somehow (idk... eg, WS 1-6 * [full campaign]). Cos the list is looking a bit longer than it did before, which is good, but also, you know...

Spoiler



#69 Destined

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:59 AM

Regarding your spoiler tag: There was an appeal to map authors to include more information about their missions, so that players can know more about used mechanics and AI types and maybe introducing a tag system into the mission downloader. However, this was never implemented. Well, most map authors prefer to create new content instead of tidying up older missions. That is, of course, if they are even still around. Nothing I can't understand. And gathering the information from map authors as an outsider is a huge undertaking that noone wanted to commit to, as it either involves interviewing each and every author about each mission or playing each and every mission to gather info. Apart from that no consent could be reached as to what what information should be included (if I remember correctly). The suggestions went from simple setting and AI info (like on the Wiki list) to more extensive info, like if the player is able to climb draining pipes or some similar stuff. As I said, this is a lot of work, that noone wants to commit to.


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#70 Spooks

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

So I've ran into a bit of a snag with the import/export map feature. It seems when you import a map with groups inside, some of them get ungrouped. I'm thinking the problem is when the importer hits a group number in the .darkradiant file (e.g. [InfoFile]: Parsed group #2679 with name "") that already exists in the map you're importing to, it doesn't bother to remap it to some other number and just discards the information. I know when there are conflicting func_static names, those get renamed. 

 

I've not done rigorous testing on this, but I wanna know if there's any type of sanity-checking for groups like there is for fs and layer assignments.


Edited by Spooks, 05 May 2017 - 06:49 PM.

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#71 teh_saccade

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 03:43 PM

Regarding your spoiler tag: There was an appeal to map authors to include more information about their missions, so that players can know more about used mechanics and AI types and maybe introducing a tag system into the mission downloader. However, this was never implemented. Well, most map authors prefer to create new content instead of tidying up older missions. That is, of course, if they are even still around. Nothing I can't understand. And gathering the information from map authors as an outsider is a huge undertaking that noone wanted to commit to, as it either involves interviewing each and every author about each mission or playing each and every mission to gather info. Apart from that no consent could be reached as to what what information should be included (if I remember correctly). The suggestions went from simple setting and AI info (like on the Wiki list) to more extensive info, like if the player is able to climb draining pipes or some similar stuff. As I said, this is a lot of work, that noone wants to commit to.

 

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Spoiler


 



#72 Obsttorte

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 05:47 AM

Maybe with permission of the authors, a second person could set the campaigns up. This would also tidy up the missions list.

This is possible and was discussed before, but it means additional work. Beside the campaign setup itself mappers have to consider whether loot and equipment is carried over from one mission to another. In that case you may have to alter loot values or add/remove loot to balance things out. In addition, if there are inconsistencies for example with the briefing type used you would have to do some work there either. And as all those changes could break things it would need to be betatested, which is already time consuming for a single mission, not to mention a whole campaign.

 

So considering all this work I guess someone would only do this if he or she would consider it beneficial (for example due to the loot carried over, giving loot goals a real sense). And I'm not sure whether there are that many people who would do it with missions that are not even their own.


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#73 teh_saccade

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 08:47 AM

Didn't think about things like shops and loot and the like...

Guess it's something that is easier thought of before rather than after.

Glad I discovered the campaign thing before.

Appears many didn't.



#74 Destined

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 11:38 AM

I mainly forgot the weapons that are most likely carried over. Loot amount can be adjusted even afterwards (i.e. simply substract a certain amount or divide by a factor), but it is additional work, that is true.

 

 

Glad I discovered the campaign thing before.

Appears many didn't.

I don't think that most people did not know about it. They just rather released each mission seperately to have a more steady stream of missions rather than work for a longer time in the closet and release the campaign. However, it would have been beneficial, if the packing together would have been considered while creating the missions, so the work for that could have been minimised.



#75 teh_saccade

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:44 AM

Guess it depends on the type of campaign - if it is a continuation without shop then weapon count must be congruent with previous.
If it is, "next job on list", then the opportunity to resupply (either at "home" or at shop) would be viable and encourage collection of as much loot as poss in previous.

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