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Cleaning up the mission list


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#1 wesp5

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 05:27 PM

Now that TDM is on Steam Greenlight, I think it's time to clean up the mission list and rename some missions to make connections easier. As far as I see to do this only the missions.tdminfo file and the darkmod.txt files of the affected mission have to be edited. I am willing to do so if this helps and I could upload the fixed files here so that they can be included in the next update. To clean up local missions I recommend to add a "Remove mission" button with functionality to the bottom of the "New Misison page" so it would look like this:

 

Download Missions            Main Menu
Remove Mission              Refresh List               

 

I would also like to see a "Select all for download" button with functonality besides the "Select for download" which would make getting missions much easier for new players coming to the mod from Steam. You can't expect them to manually download everything ;)!

 

Here are my suggestions to clean up the list. I probably missed some connections, but the ones below were very obvious and would be easy to fix. The symbol ">" means the mission should be renamed, the symbol "=>" means a duplicate entry should be removed.

 

anh > "Accountant 1: A noble home"
fauchard => fauchard1_1
gatehouse => gatehouse1_3
newjob > "1. Mission: A New Job"
nhat2 => nhat3
penny => penny1_1
penny2 => penny2_1
saintlucia => stlucia > "2. Mission: Tears of St. Lucia"
stalban => caduceus
sound_alert_trainer > "0. Mission: Sound Alert and Blackjack Trainer"
thiefs_den => thiefsden > "TD1: Thief's Den"
training_mission > "0. Mission: Training Mission"
ulysses_genesis > "Ulysses 1: Genesis"
vfat1 > "VFAT1: A Pawn in the Game"
vfat2 > "VFAT2: The Art of Revenge"
 


Edited by wesp5, 08 March 2017 - 05:33 PM.


#2 demagogue

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 05:34 PM

This could be in combination with a user prompt, eg, when installing an older version "there's a newer version of this FM. Would you like to download it instead?" And "This is a newer version of an FM you've already downloaded."

But I think maybe some players will prefer having the older version of an FM or both versions. So I don't think the system should disallow it, but notifying it might be good.
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#3 Goldwell

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:33 AM

anh > "Accountant 1: A noble home"

 

 

A noble home is no longer available, it's being replaced by a different mission.


The Accountant Series
Part 1: A Noble Home (complete rebuild coming soon) | Part 2: New In town


Lord Edgar Trilogy
Lord Edgar's Bathhouse | Lord Edgar's Disappearance | Lord Edgar's Estate
 
Stand Alone Missions
Spring Cleaning

#4 wesp5

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:55 AM

This could be in combination with a user prompt, eg, when installing an older version "there's a newer version of this FM. Would you like to download it instead?" And "This is a newer version of an FM you've already downloaded."

I don't see why people would keep old versions of missions around, but you already get info about whether a mission is an update or new when you select it for downloading. Still I think unless these duplicates are already gone from the master-missions-download-list and only my local problem, they should be removed before the Steam release to not confuse new players! So can I edit my local list, which includes all current missions, and upload it somewhere so it will be used as a master list to help you people? Should I do the same with the internal name files? What about the "Remove Mission" feature? Should I add this as a feature request to the bugtracker?



#5 Springheel

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 07:48 AM

You would need the author's permission before changing the name of their mission.

It should be fairly easy to check whether there are duplicate missions available for download; if there are they should be removed.
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#6 wesp5

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:51 AM

It should be fairly easy to check whether there are duplicate missions available for download; if there are they should be removed.

I installed a clean version of TDM 2.05 to check the latest mission list and got a positive surprise :)! All duplicate missions are gone and more or less everything that I wanted to rename has already been done. With the exception of the in-build missions for which I suggested a name change elsewhere that might be used in the next full update. For which it may make also sense to include the "Sound Alert and Blackjack Trainer" too, best renaming it to "Training Mission 2: Sound Alert and Blackjack" while renaming the other one "Training Mission 1", to keep both side to side. The credits show that it was made by the Dark Mod team anyway! Which only leaves the question on why my local setup is still so messed up and how to fix that? Obviously renamed missions are not recognized to be different from the local ones as long as only the name has changed. Maybe they can be set to be an updated version to correct the names? Duplicate missions are not recognized either, so I again would like to have a "Remove Mission" button on that page, in case sooner or later similar problems arise again. I know I can edit the file list and remove the folders themselves, but this isn't good for the average Steam user...


Edited by wesp5, 09 March 2017 - 08:52 AM.


#7 Bikerdude

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:54 AM

  1. anh > "Accountant 1: A noble home"
  2. fauchard => fauchard1_1
  3. gatehouse => gatehouse1_3
  4. newjob > "1. Mission: A New Job"
  5. nhat2 => nhat3
  6. penny => penny1_1
  7. penny2 => penny2_1
  8. saintlucia => stlucia > "2. Mission: Tears of St. Lucia"
  9. stalban => caduceus
  10. sound_alert_trainer > "0. Mission: Sound Alert and Blackjack Trainer"
  11. thiefs_den => thiefsden > "TD1: Thief's Den"
  12. training_mission > "0. Mission: Training Mission"
  13. ulysses_genesis > "Ulysses 1: Genesis"
  14. vfat1 > "VFAT1: A Pawn in the Game"
  15. vfat2 > "VFAT2: The Art of Revenge"
  1. Goldwell
  2. Melan
  3. Bikerdude
  4. Springheel
  5. Bikerdude/Team
  6. Melan
  7. Melan/Bikerdude
  8. Comes with the mod, so no need.
  9. Bikerdude
  10. Not an official or listed mission
  11. Buikerdude/Team.
  12. Comes with the mod, so no need.
  13. Sotha
  14. SirTaffsAlot
  15. SirTaffsAlot

I have listed all of the authors for those maps, a lot of which were me. The only issdue with renaming them that I can see is that we have done this in the past and players dont see new versions listed via the in-game downloader.

 

  • You would need the author's permission before changing the name of their mission.
  • It should be fairly easy to check whether there are duplicate missions available for download; if there are they should be removed.
  • See above
  • Hopefully there should be no duplicates, on any of the mirrors.


#8 wesp5

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:28 AM

Okay, I looked into this some more and it looks to me that the duplicates are indeed gone, but the campaign names have only been updated on the server side. Once you download them, the changed names will revert themselves and you'll get the old mess of missions with no visible connection. So either the guy who changed the names on the server side could just copy them over to the files that will be downloaded (darkmod.txt for each mission), or if nobody else is willing, I could do that and upload the results somewhere for you to use. I don't think any additional permissions are required, because 1) the changes are already on the server side and 2) the changes are only adding a campaign name to the front or writing out the existing campaign name in full, like "William Steel 1" instead of "WS1". What do you think?

 

P.S.: I just noticed that darkmod.txt is stored inside the pk4 so the affected missions need to be updated. So who do I need to contact for this to help him? Bikerdude?


Edited by wesp5, 15 March 2017 - 11:04 AM.


#9 Springheel

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:52 AM

I don't think any additional permissions are required, because 1) the changes are already on the server side and 2) the changes are only adding a campaign name to the front or writing out the existing campaign name in full, like "William Steel 1" instead of "WS1". What do you think?

 

 

The fact that they probably would be okay with it doesn't remove the need to ask them before making a change to their pk4.  Mappers should be the ones with the final say over what their mission is called.

 

Adding campaign names to the front has already truncated some of the existing mission names.


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#10 wesp5

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:22 AM

 

The fact that they probably would be okay with it doesn't remove the need to ask them before making a change to their pk4.  Mappers should be the ones with the final say over what their mission is called.

Well, someone already renamed them and I don't have access to the servers to upload missions anyway. I'm aware of the truncated names, but again this has already happened on the server side. My main goal would be to just get the two sides to call the missions the same, I don't care whether it's called "WS1" or "WIlliam Steel 1".


Edited by wesp5, 15 March 2017 - 11:23 AM.


#11 demagogue

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:54 AM

The recent Steam business has brought something very essential about The Dark Mod into sharp focus that this request is intersecting with, and maybe because my (our?) sensitivy is heightened, the tone of it is pushing some buttons. You're asking us to do something as if we owned these FMs, as if we owned this game. We don't. We're only a vehicle to get an author's vision to the players.

There is a god in the machine, but it isn't the developers. It's the authors and the players. This is their show. I don't think anybody has any standing to change something as fundamental as a title without the author's consent.

That said, it's fine to try to reason with authors and try to persuade them why it's a good idea.
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#12 Tr00pertj

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:20 AM

Damn you guys are the bees knees of shiznick.

 

WoW steam Green light:) Congrats to all. You Guys are the mappers, Editors, Makers and Designers of the next Century in Gaming.  Makes me want to restart my solar escape mission and rebuild it with extensions. Bloody 7D2D has stolen my life:) so to type:)

Have not played TDM in an embarrassingly long and tormented time. So I think it's time to reflect before moving on. Let me play some new TDM this week and next to catch up.

 

Love you guy's ALL and don't stop NMW.

 

 

 


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#13 Melan

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:07 AM

  1. Goldwell
  2. Melan
  3. Bikerdude
  4. Springheel
  5. Bikerdude/Team
  6. Melan
  7. Melan/Bikerdude
  8. Comes with the mod, so no need.
  9. Bikerdude
  10. Not an official or listed mission
  11. Buikerdude/Team.
  12. Comes with the mod, so no need.
  13. Sotha
  14. SirTaffsAlot
  15. SirTaffsAlot

5. is Goldchocobo, Mortem Desino & Bikerdude

11. is Fidcal

 

I don't mind if my missions are renamed to be part of a series, although it is kinda confusing/self-defeating in the case of the "Talbot" missions, which span three games, are only loosely connected, and have been left unfinished.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#14 wesp5

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:10 AM

That said, it's fine to try to reason with authors and try to persuade them why it's a good idea.

Okay, I will try to do that once I checked out what missions should be renamed. But to make this more clear to me, someone of your team already renamed the missions in your server listing file, because this is owned by you, but he didn't change the internal names of the pk4 files, because these are owned by the authors. Am I correct?



#15 wesp5

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:18 AM

I don't mind if my missions are renamed to be part of a series, although it is kinda confusing/self-defeating in the case of the "Talbot" missions, which span three games, are only loosely connected, and have been left unfinished.

As I wrote, something like this has already happened on the server side. Someone renamed one mission "Talbot 1: Fiasco at Fauchard Street" and another "Talbot 2: Return to the City". What is the third mission you mentioned? "Sir Talbot's Collateral" exists, but is probably something different.



#16 demagogue

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:31 AM

I'm sure it wasn't so premeditated. The person doing the website probably did it for the convenience of users without thinking that deeply about it. It's just a guide, not official anyway. Not changing the content of a pk4 was probably just out of basic human decency not to change the words of an author and let them decide their own title. It's the official one.

But I'm not even speaking about formalities of ownership, just basic respect that is owed to authors. Some authors think it's a big deal and some not so much, but asking is the safe & right thing to do in pretty much any case involving changing pk4 content.

As campaigns come out over time and author's might not think about the practicalities of naming issues, though, it's worth raising the issue with them so they know why it's important and helpful for users.
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#17 Melan

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:41 AM

As I wrote, something like this has already happened on the server side. Someone renamed one mission "Talbot 1: Fiasco at Fauchard Street" and another "Talbot 2: Return to the City". What is the third mission you mentioned? "Sir Talbot's Collateral" exists, but is probably something different.

Actually, Talbot 1 is Prowler of the Dark (Thief 1), 2 is Return to the City, 3 is Fauchard Street, 4 is Bad Debts (Thief 2) and 5 is Disorientation. 6 and 7 were planned but never built.


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Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#18 wesp5

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:04 AM

Actually, Talbot 1 is Prowler of the Dark (Thief 1), 2 is Return to the City, 3 is Fauchard Street, 4 is Bad Debts (Thief 2) and 5 is Disorientation. 6 and 7 were planned but never built.

Okay, maybe I mixed up Return to the City and Fauchard Street or the server guy did, but I can't find Disorientation for TDM. I think nobody is expecting a perfect campaign, but sometimes it helps to know the main character and possibly things he refers to in the intro. So you would be okay to rename your missions inside the pk4 to match the server list?



#19 nbohr1more

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:33 AM

You can change the mission Title in the darkmod.txt

Title: The Outpost
Description: Break into a builder outpost to retrieve a gold ingot.
Author: angua & greebo
Version: 1
Required TDM Version: 1.01



You can change the mission Title on The Dark Mod download page.
 
Mission Details
Title A House of Locked Secrets
Released 2015-05-29 Version 1
Author(s) Moonbo
Mission Type Campaign
Size 195 MB

 
But if you change the actual pk4 filename, eg. fauchard.pk4 => fauchard1_1.pk4
 
it will break the updater alerts for the mission.
 
That must never be changed or else you'll end up with chaos of old and new versions in the mission list.
The pk4 name is what the updater uses to tell if a mission matches between our mirrors and the local copy.
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#20 wesp5

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:02 AM

The pk4 name is what the updater uses to tell if a mission matches between our mirrors and the local copy.

I'm fully aware of that and in the meantime someone on the TDM team has already removed all duplicates and also improved the mission names on the server side. This is basically flawless now, what needs to be updated are the names of the missions in darkmod.txt which is stored inside the pk4 archives, not the archive names themselves. Sometimes this is only minor, like moving a version number out of the title into the version line, or expanding a shortened campaign name, but in some cases, like the Thomas Porter series, you see them connected and ordered when you choose them to download, and after you do, they end up as a complete mess! Speaking of which, while you are working out the legal details with Valve for Steam, maybe you should get the rights from the missions authors to do exactly that with upcoming missions, like you have the permission to change how the mission is presented in TDM, with no right of course to actually changing its content.


Edited by wesp5, 19 March 2017 - 05:03 AM.


#21 Anderson

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:47 AM

Speaking of which, while you are working out the legal details with Valve for Steam, maybe you should get the rights from the missions authors to do exactly that with upcoming missions, like you have the permission to change how the mission is presented in TDM, with no right of course to actually changing its content.


What do you mean by that?

#22 wesp5

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:53 AM

What do you mean by that?

Something like making names in the server list consistent or follow some rules.



#23 Bikerdude

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:05 PM

The symbol ">" means the mission should be renamed, the symbol "=>" means a duplicate entry should be removed.

 

anh > "Accountant 1: A noble home"
fauchard => fauchard1_1
gatehouse => gatehouse1_3
newjob > "1. Mission: A New Job"
nhat2 => nhat3
penny => penny1_1
penny2 => penny2_1
saintlucia => stlucia > "2. Mission: Tears of St. Lucia"
stalban => caduceus
sound_alert_trainer > "0. Mission: Sound Alert and Blackjack Trainer"
thiefs_den => thiefsden > "TD1: Thief's Den"
training_mission > "0. Mission: Training Mission"
ulysses_genesis > "Ulysses 1: Genesis"
vfat1 > "VFAT1: A Pawn in the Game"
vfat2 > "VFAT2: The Art of Revenge"

I forgot to ask, where did you get this info from?



#24 nbohr1more

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:14 PM

Another thread about this topic, just for comparison:

 

http://forums.thedar...ion-list/page-5

 

;)


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#25 wesp5

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:38 PM

I forgot to ask, where did you get this info from?

I got this from looking at my local missions.tdminfo file when I updated to 2.05 after not having played for some time. I noticed a lot of duplicate missions which I now deleted locally from my setup as the server list had already been cleaned which I found out when I installed a fresh TDM version on another computer. I thought everything was fine, but then I noticed that after installing missions on the other computer, several mission names changed back, more than listed above as the server list does not use abreviated campaign names, but full ones...


Edited by wesp5, 19 March 2017 - 01:41 PM.





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