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So, how do you guys like Prey?


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#51 Judith

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:25 AM

:blink:

Maybe it's me having poor time-management skills, but last time I had this much time for games was during my Uni years. I binge-played through most of Prey during one rainy weekend, and on Sunday afternoon it felt like a huge gaming hangover. I'm too old for this shit.


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#52 demagogue

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:03 AM

Prey is on my shortlist. As soon as I get my gaming laptop fixed, there's finishing Dishonored 2 and then Prey.

 

I'm going through insane hurdles trying to get Asus to agree to repair it though. I thought companies liked getting paid for performing services...


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#53 chakkman

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:57 AM

:blink:

Maybe it's me having poor time-management skills, but last time I had this much time for games was during my Uni years. I binge-played through most of Prey during one rainy weekend, and on Sunday afternoon it felt like a huge gaming hangover. I'm too old for this shit.

 

Yeah, must admit that i had quite a lot of time at hand when i played Fallout 4 at least. :) Even without that, i couldn't rush through such a game in 40 or 50 hours though. I would miss a lot, and i really had fun exploring in FO4. Almost became obsessive...



#54 Judith

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 12:06 PM

To me FO4 was a big step backwards in the series, in almost every way, except for graphics and some distractions like base building stuff. Bethesda actually managed to achieve a new low with the mediocrity of the main quest and limited binary choices. It felt like quests were designed by interns. I spent a great deal of time with F:NV though, something like 200 hours. While the main game was buggy at launch, they managed to fix alt least the major ones. And the story DLCs were excellent; Honest Hearts maybe a bit less, but Dead Money, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road are fantastic.



#55 chakkman

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:16 PM

To each their own. IMO, Fallout 4 has the best game world of the Fallouts, by quite a margin. New Vegas surely had the best story and characters. And Fallout 3 felt very round, solid game. Only the never ending metro tunnels, and the fact you only could enter certain areas through those, was a bit annoying. Still, had great fun in that (i am finishing the GOTY edition ATM, which is excellent really). Dunno, i like them all, and they all have their flaws. Simply, Bethesda. :) In FO 4, i would surely criticize the generic faction quests (thought Bethesda was done with the generic stuff), and i didn't enjoy the settlement stuff too much either (next time, i just won't join the Minutemen). It never really got boring for me though, as i had so much fun exploring the whole map, because every singly location was worth it.



#56 Atomica

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:02 PM

I just didn't like any of the 3D Fallout games. Fallouts 1 & 2 are my ambrosia, they have the best atmosphere, tone and especially the best music. I know that makes me of "those" fans, but I ain't a hater. I'm not going to rant about the superiority of the old games because I don't like ruining anyone's fun. :)


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Oh my God! JC! A bomb!


#57 Judith

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:24 AM

I think there's something inherently wrong with how Bethesda works as a game studio. For many years now, main quests in their games were subpar on every level, from writing to gameplay and technical execution. Last passable main quest was probably in Morrowind, but I'm not 100% sure about that. If there was something original and genuinely interesting, it was buried somewhere among side quests or faction quests, like assassins guild in Oblivion, Shivering Isles DLC, or thieves guild in Skyrim. Same goes for Fallout 3 & 4 (and the latter even has the same main quest, just reversed). The only reason I can find for that is that people working on main quests are either interns, or it's kind of penalty or purgatory for employees, for noone likes designing main quests, or the team responsible for that consists of studio vetrans / higher-ups who can't be fired.


Edited by Judith, 13 September 2017 - 01:25 AM.


#58 lowenz

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:03 AM

LOL :D


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.


#59 chakkman

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:02 AM

LOL :D

 

Yeah, especially as we're talking about one of the best selling games series in the last century. Can't be that bad, i guess. :)



#60 Judith

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:46 AM

Best selling game doesn't mean great game. It only means a lot of people bought it (myself included). If you want more substantial discussion about that, this video is a nice place to start:

 

 

For one, when I watched that video, I almost instantly recalled what the quest was about, even though I last played F:NV in like 2011. Then I tried to remember a quest in FO4 that would be half as good as this one. I couldn't. IMO Bethesda is just turning FO into a series of first person shooters with nice locations, and this is not what FO was about. There seem to be a lot of people who are okay with that, but again, that doesn't mean FO4 is great, especially in comparison to first installments, which those people probably never played.



#61 demagogue

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:56 AM

The main quests are functionable, and there's a LOT of content, to say nothing of the side quest content slush. It lends itself to people buying them and regarding it just highly enough for reviews (FO3 & Skyrim anyway, I can't vouch for the others). But just by the sheer flood of functionable content they're going to get a lot of buzz going.

 

FO3 was ... I don't know how to exactly pin down my feelings. There were individual encounters I liked but it didn't do much for me on the whole. My computer at the time was a bit underpowered, the framerates would sometimes choke, so that didn't help. But mainly I think it was the kind of hackneyed tone... when you try to put it in a 3D open world, there's some kind of internal tension to it, like the world is trying to be too real but too winking at the same time, which works for 2D worlds but not so much 3D worlds. Like some of the dialogs coming over the comms in FO2 were ridiculous and hilarious. And it worked. But when it's coming from a guy in an ant-suit literally standing in front of you and saying the ridiculous... just doesn't have the same magic. I just feel kind of sad for the ant guy, sad for the world he's in, sad for the writer that's having to write this stuff for him, lol.

 

Skyrim is still the gold standard for me, mostly just because I'm into pure exploration/horse riding and the modding scene, and on those two fronts Skyrim still delivers. (If it could add anything, it'd be mods making it more agreeable to riding around the countryside, a bit more open & sandboxy; on that GTAV is probably the gold standard.)

 

I'm really looking forward to Prey, since I have high expectations from Arkane ... but not too high, since I recognize they're still adapting classic ideas to the contemporary scene, so e.g. there's going to be more bling and polish and streamlining.


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#62 chakkman

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:56 AM

@ Judith: Fair enough if YOU don't like it. That doesn't mean that it's a bad game generally though. ;) And, regarding the game world, i don't think there even could be different opinions, unless you're very prejudiced. Anyway.

 

I only played Fallout 1 from the 2D parts BTW. Didn't like it at all TBH. Neither the iso view, nor the turn based fights. Just not my cup of tea. I much prefer the 3D games. 


Edited by chakkman, 13 September 2017 - 06:57 AM.


#63 Judith

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:38 AM

Well, it's not only me; a lot of people who played and enjoyed original games share this opinion. As a Fallout game, yeah, FO4 it's not a good game, as it slowly abandons what made these games great: role-playing, interesting takes on ethics and morality in post-apocalyptic world, which was a playground for player choice, without authoring it too much. Bethesda's work with FO3 was important, because they did translate pretty well what was 2D sprites into 3d objects and, as far as their crappy Embryo engine goes, the general gameplay mechanics. But that's the nuts-and-bolts side of things, not so much the craft of creative work.

 

Actually, when Bethesda has the artistic freedom, they don't do very well. TES since Oblivion looks like a generic fantasy world, without much flare or character. Just compare it to something like Gothic series, which is (equally if not more buggy but) based more on actual medieval European architecture, and it has more distinctive style (The Witcher did it very well too).

 

But getting back to FO3, it was important as a base for F:NV, as Obsidian basically took these resources and tried do make their Fallout out of it (supposedly there's quite a bit of Van Buren content in F:NV). And as original FO designers, they did much better job with it than Bethesda, trying to translate values associated with the FO name into an engine, assets, and the FPS style of play they were given.

 

This is something Arkane did too, as Prey is basically System Shock 3; it refers to the old values from previous games and tries to make modern spin out of it, and the result is pretty great.


Edited by Judith, 13 September 2017 - 07:40 AM.


#64 Abusimplea

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:49 AM

Main quests are best to be ignored as long as possible in open world RPGs. There has to be one because else the casuals would not know what to do. But almost all main quests are absurd and annoying. In Skyrim i even used a mod to get rid of the main quest completely - so i do not have to fight dragons every five minutes.

So whenever i start to play a new open world RPG, i identify the main quest so that i know what to ignore. Most of the time i do not even try to finish the main quest after i am done with everything else.



#65 chakkman

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:58 AM

Main quests are best to be ignored as long as possible in open world RPGs. There has to be one because else the casuals would not know what to do. But almost all main quests are absurd and annoying. In Skyrim i even used a mod to get rid of the main quest completely - so i do not have to fight dragons every five minutes.

 

:D

 

I agree. That kind of stuff is annoying for me too, also the Oblivion doors, in Oblivion. TBH, i much prefer the Bethesda Fallout's to the Elder Scrolls parts anyway. Dunno, they really only managed the jump out of generic quest design, game design, and world design with the Fallout games IMO. Ok, Skyrim isn't that bad in that regard. But, dunno, it's more of a modern game also, which feels a bit casual, and almost as if it plays itself. 

 

Anyway, Bethesda's role play games surely all have their flaws, agreed, but, at the same time, they're freaking good and fun to play also. And, i really want to see all those vloggers, and people who are overly critical, and see what games they design, which are all awesome, without flaws, and perfect. Metacritic says 84-88/100 points for the different versions of Fallout 4, and 91/93 for Fallout 3. And Fallout 4 was one of the best selling titles ever, AFAIK. I can't really see how that would justify a comment that the game is "bad". People who don't like the mass appeal surely have a right to their opinion, but, it's just that then. An opinion. Same with Steam reviews. I recently checked GTA 5 on Steam. The last 20 or 30 reviews were all negative. WTF. :P One of the most awesome games i played in the last 10 years, probably the most awesome. With a game world, and detail, which puts every competition to shame. Sometimes i really think we live in times of too much wealth, boredom, and daintiness. 



#66 Judith

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:14 AM

Well, there's a difference between critical and commercial success, that's one thing. The other thing is, that talking only in terms of "it's good because I like it / it's bad because i don't like it" is shallow and boring. This is why I try to provide examples, and specify what I don't like and provide some kind of reasoning behind that. But that won't make an interesting, substantive discussion against arguments like statistic numbers or sales figures. And no, people who talk like that don't have to make games, movies, and whatnot, (even though sometimes critics become creators and put their knowledge to practical use).



#67 chakkman

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:30 AM

Fair enough. It's just that some vloggers often appear a bit pretentious to me. And often, when i read some reviews, i keep thinking "Meh... does the guy actually know how games have progressed in the last 15 years, and how great they can be now, compared to what we had back then?". But, okay, i see the issues with the casual, Assassins Creed style "Press one button to climb up the highest building in the city", with their treasues behind every corner, and fights, which almost play themselves, and the player can nearly just watch, and doesn't have to do anything. There's of course some of that in FO 4 too. E.g., i have no idea how the vault dweller who just woke up from his beauty sleep knows all those recipes, which involve ingredients from the local, irradiated wild life. Or how he can know all those gun construction plans, when he doesn't even know about the parts which are available in the world. Or the generic faction quest, which always repeat themselves. Franly though, in terms of game and world design, Bethesda definitely upped their game. Massively. Morrowind and Oblivion looked absolutely generic compared to it. And there's a whole lot of stuff going on too, and the game world is very detailled, which is only possible with an extra effort of "man power", obviously.

 

Anyway. Just saying that it surely isn't a top game for nothing. Even though Assassins Creed is also a top game. But, i dare to assume that the target audience isn't quite the same. 



#68 Judith

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:55 AM

I remember having high hopes for first Assassin's Creed. What I basically wanted was a TPP equivalent of Thief/Dishonored during the Third Crusade. What I got was an open-world Prince of Persia 3d with simple mechanics, boring metagame story, and tons of busywork. And people loooved it. If anything, the series' commercial success proved that there isn't enough boredom in the world, and people like to work in games just like they work in real life (i.e. for most people it's familiar repetitive time-killing). That's why I don't use massive sales as an argument in discussion. A huge mass of people will have, if only out of statistical necessity, very average tastes ;)


Edited by Judith, 13 September 2017 - 10:11 AM.

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