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#151 Springheel

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:06 AM

Let's keep in mind this is a beginner's tutorial.  There are lots of advanced techniques and special kinds of detailing that beginners shouldn't need to worry about, especially this early in the process.  The vast majority of missions don't have sagging roofs.

 

Here is a quick primer on moving verts to make a gable:

 

 

in some instances I was not able to fuse vertex points and the brush disappeared, when two of them were brought together.

 

 

You can see I had the same problem in the video, but fusing them isn't really necessary.



#152 Springheel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:55 AM

Progress so far: lots of placeholder textures and a bright ambient light for testing purposes

 

Comments welcomed!

 

https://www.dropbox....k_test.map?dl=0

 

You've got some cool things going on here already!  A definite sense of place.

 

I'm not sure which are the placeholder textures (see below), but in the basement it looks like you're using very low-res textures that are actually for distant module pieces.  I'd recommend using the actual modules themselves, or pick a different texture.

 

I agree about shrinking the scale of some of the textures.

 

Also, I'm not sure you'll be able to open the chest where it is currently without it hitting something...if you add the developer tool prefab you can unlock it to check.

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#153 DoubleOhZero

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:05 AM

Thanks for the input everyone!

 

The wall textures are all placeholders.

The next step is to finish the major geometry of the house (I might remove the ceiling and change the roof pitch as per Neonstyle), then roughly furnish the interior and the basement.

Next I will start landscaping outside with patches to simulate terrain, then place bush and tree models. I might end up extending a back route along the side of the house for another entrance through an upper window.

The next major bit is to construct a round sewer pipe rather than the boxy square one - can I use patch cylinders for this?

Then the final texture placement, lighting placement.

Then AI!

 

Are patches solid? Or do you have to put playerclip behind them?

 

Thanks again!


Edited by DoubleOhZero, 17 July 2017 - 10:09 AM.

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#154 Springheel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:55 AM

Are patches solid? Or do you have to put playerclip behind them?

 

 

Patches are solid from the visual side.



#155 nbohr1more

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:58 AM

Thanks for the input everyone!
 
The wall textures are all placeholders.
The next step is to finish the major geometry of the house (I might remove the ceiling and change the roof pitch as per Neonstyle), then roughly furnish the interior and the basement.
Next I will start landscaping outside with patches to simulate terrain, then place bush and tree models. I might end up extending a back route along the side of the house for another entrance through an upper window.
The next major bit is to construct a round sewer pipe rather than the boxy square one - can I use patch cylinders for this?
Then the final texture placement, lighting placement.
Then AI!
 
Are patches solid? Or do you have to put playerclip behind them?
 
Thanks again!


Patches do not "seal" but the do block visuals and create collision.
If the patch is being used to seal an area, it must be accompanied by caulk or another sealing brush type.
Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#156 NeonsStyle

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 12:17 PM

Patches are solid


I have a small YouTube channel making videos on a variety of games. Come and have look here:
 
https://www.youtube.com/c/NeonsStyleHD

 

 

 


#157 nbohr1more

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:02 PM

http://wiki.thedarkm...p?title=Patches

(Will not seal against the void)
Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#158 Obsttorte

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 04:38 AM

Patches are solid

Only from the visible side, as Spring said.


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
My wiki articles: Obstipedia
Let's Map TDM YouTube playlist: ObstlerTube
Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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#159 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:01 AM

Making my way through watching Lesson 4. About 3/4 through. A couple bits of feedback so far, if you ever update the vid:
  • 15:30 - When you say, "If it's the floor" ... I would add a caption saying "of a room you might be making above" (if that's what you mean). I know it sounds basic, but when I first started watching a few days ago, I don't know that I caught on to what you were meaning there. Maybe I did, but I seem to remember not being sure. When re-watching that part today, I figured it out.
  • 28:50 - Did you hit a hotkey or press a button to center it with the wall piece? Or were you just manually aligning?

Edited by Darkness_Falls, 19 July 2017 - 10:00 AM.


#160 Springheel

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:00 AM

28:50 - Did you hit a hokey or press a button to center it with the wall piece? Or were you just manually aligning?

 

 

Just manually aligning.



#161 Springheel

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:38 AM

The next lesson is up.  Lesson 5 is about how to clone and connect your rooms.

 


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#162 Destined

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:34 AM

As before, I have some comments (I hope you don't mind):

For aligning two modules, I myself prefer to use the origins of the modules as an orientation, because these are always in the middle of the modules (in the top-view) and let you see how many units/squares you have to move it.

The "copy shader" function not only copies the scale, but also the shift of the texture. Thus, you can select one face, use "copy shader" and if you then select multiple faces and "paste shader", the faces should all perfectly match.

Is there anything that speaks against using caulk for the sealing geometry? I like to use it, because the magenta colour is unmistakable for detecting leaks.



#163 Obsttorte

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:47 AM


Is there anything that speaks against using caulk for the sealing geometry? I like to use it, because the magenta colour is unmistakable for detecting leaks.

Not really, that's what it is designed for.


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
My wiki articles: Obstipedia
Let's Map TDM YouTube playlist: ObstlerTube
Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

End of shameless self promotion.

#164 Springheel

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:57 AM

Is there anything that speaks against using caulk for the sealing geometry?

 

 

Yes.  Caulk doesn't cast shadows, so if you put a caulk brush in between rooms, it's possible for light to bleed from one room to another.   There are some benefits to using it if you know what you're doing, but I'm not going to recommend using it for first-time mappers.



#165 Destined

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 01:04 PM

Ok, thanks!



#166 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 10:58 PM

I found it quite difficult to see brushes in the default XY / YZ views of DarkRadiant after de-selecting them because their lines are black, as are the gridlines of the viewport. So, I customized my colors. I then noticed you had customized yours, too, Springheel; and I liked yours better, so I stole your idea to use light gray background, with white major grid lines. 

 

If anyone else would like to customize their viewport colors, go to: "View > Colours... > DarkRadiant Default" and change Grid Minor, Grid Major, and Grid Background. Look at Springheel's videos for reference, if you want what looks to be a good color combination or a nice starting point.

 

Not being able to see my brushes in the 3rd lesson added to the complexity of me trying to re-select brushes or see brushes.

 

Sorry if this was already stated somewhere and I missed it. If not already stated, I recommend adding a text note somewhere in a past video -- might be especially useful in Lesson 4, and partly useful in Lesson 3; or mentioning in an upcoming video if that's not possible. I'm only part-way into viewing the 5th lesson. I'm still having to flesh out my room from Lesson 4, which I'm going to start now and continue over the weekend. Hopefully I can catch up.

 

PS: This is the 2nd time I've almost lost what I typed because the forum lets you compose a reply without being logged in. Then, when you hit "Post" it tells you to login... but if you login there, it won't retain and auto-post what you typed; rather, it kicks you out to the main forum page. Fortunately, I've been able to hit the Back arrow of my browser after getting the login prompt, and CTRL+C copying my text so I can then paste it in a new post after I'm logged in. I just wish the reply box wasn't visible until after you've logged in, so you're not tempted to type a reply that might get lost upon getting prompted to log in.


Edited by Darkness_Falls, 20 July 2017 - 11:01 PM.


#167 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:43 PM

 

esc = deselect

 

shift + leftclick = selects object

 

shift + alt + leftclick = selects ONLY object (deselects all other selections first)

 

shift + ctrl + leftclick = selects a single face of a brush

I can't seem to select a panel like you can in Lesson 4 @ 18:40. I've tried all of the above. SHIFT + LMB selects the whole prefab (all of the walls that make up the prefab)' and the other two don't do anything (nothing / nothing). I've also tried drag-selecting and get the same results (whole prefab / nothing / nothing). Advice? Also tried using the camera view (instead of the orthographic views) using the same selection methods, with no luck.


Edited by Darkness_Falls, 20 July 2017 - 11:45 PM.


#168 Destined

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 01:58 AM

Prefabs are grouped by default (for easier handling). If you want to select any single part, you have to ungroup it first (RMB->Ungroup Selection or Edit->Ungroup selection or using the buttons on the left). Grouping is covered later on in the video, but I assume you have not gotten to that part, yet.


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#169 Springheel

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 10:15 AM

*
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The next lesson is a fairly quick one, about how to create outdoor areas.  In particular it demonstrates how to create uneven ground and skyboxes.

 


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#170 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 03:12 PM

Prefabs are grouped by default (for easier handling). If you want to select any single part, you have to ungroup it first (RMB->Ungroup Selection or Edit->Ungroup selection or using the buttons on the left). Grouping is covered later on in the video, but I assume you have not gotten to that part, yet.

Ahh, thank you! I remember that now. He may have even stated that earlier in the video. I watched it in full earlier in the week and forgot that little nugget of knowledge when I went to do some stuff last night

 

I think a short video is good this week. I might be the only one(?), but it'll let me play catch up a bit :)


Edited by Darkness_Falls, 21 July 2017 - 03:19 PM.


#171 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 02:50 PM

How do I resize this area of the Entity window to be taller? I can't seem to find any way to expand it

 

Also, I was having a problem with pointfile finding a leak. So I deleted my brushes and made a new one encompassing all; made it hollow. I versioned up with a save, and accidentally named it "firstjob_v66" instead of "firstjob_v6". So I re-saved it as "firstjob_v6". Then went back to the "Save As" dialogue box and right-clicked the "firstjob_v66" entry and deleted that file (as I would do in any other program). Now when I try to run a pointfile, I get an error where it can't open the ".lin" file. Not sure if my _v66 fiasco messed things up (a bug), or if it's something else. Will search the thread to see if I find the error in my ways. Loading my old "_v5" lets me pointfile again, but I wonder why _v6 got screwed...

 

I don't understand how a big textured brush drawn around everything in your room, and giving it a 10-15 foot cushion/moat/buffer, could still generate a pointfile leak. Guess I will have to re-watch Lesson 3 and 4 ;)

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Edited by Darkness_Falls, 22 July 2017 - 03:47 PM.


#172 Springheel

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 03:41 PM

I can't see the image, but you should be able to just put your cursor over the edge and click/drag to resize.



#173 Destined

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 04:08 PM

If you experience any errors with the pointfiles or dmap, you can always try to delete any files with the same name as your map, except for the .map (and maybe the .darkradiant) file, then try to dmap again. This should create all files you need, in your case a new pointfile.

 

Regarding resizing the entity inspector: You have to drag below the line, where you can type in arguments for your spawnargs (the line with the "check" besides it). I think this picture describes it better:

https://www.dropbox.... field.png?dl=0



#174 Springheel

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 04:19 PM

I don't understand how a big textured brush drawn around everything in your room, and giving it a 10-15 foot cushion/moat/buffer, could still generate a pointfile leak.

 

 

What texture did you give the brush?  If the texture is transparent, it won't seal.  It also won't seal if you gave it no texture at all.

 

Beyond that, it should work.  Did you check the pointfile to see where the red line was?



#175 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 04:57 PM

Thanks, your explanation worked for resizing that Entity window. Not used to using the bottom border of a text box to resize panels; and the line for it was so faint on my screen. No problem... now I know :)

 

Yeah, the pointfile is the same place every time. Over by a window I put in-place of a prefab wall (models/darkmod/architecture/modules/interior_mansion01/mansion01_window02.lwo). It's okay, though... I'm sure it's user error and I just need to re-watch the brushes part. You probably explained things well, but my fairly limited time to work on this is coming to haunt me a little. TBH, brushes seem a little daunting in that you, SH, are precise with them like it's a balancing act; yet my instincts tell me, "Why don't we just wait until the map, or area, is fully built and then place a huge brush that encloses all?" :D (I assume it's a performance thing, but as a beginner, I'm not understanding why brushes have to be so close to room walls... or if brush thickness/width is a big deal ('hollowed' ones are defaulted to like 8 grid units wide or whatever, so what would happen if I accidentally made it 16 grid units wide?)... or when to intersect / when not to... or why can't the room floor, walls, and ceiling just act as the brushes (i.e., why is there a separate "sealing"?)... so their mysterious nature stresses me out a tad. I like knowing the exact rules so I can rest assured that I'm doing things correctly... but I don't know the main exact rules yet.)

 

I know this will all come with time, but for now... on my fairly limited time... brushes are my main question mark during design, and the current roadblock to me experiencing the euphoria of seeing the fireplace, couch, and windows in my map, lol ;) And now I have to leave for the day... to resume tomorrow.

 

Another rookie question: is there a way to "Frame Selected" like in Maya? For example, you have a couch highlighted, and you want to frame the camera onto that object. In Maya, I would just hit "f". When I hit F in DarkRadiant, I have no clue what happens, but it might not be good (my model turns white), haha. I'll look at the hotkey list next time I dive in...


Edited by Darkness_Falls, 22 July 2017 - 05:05 PM.




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