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#176 Springheel

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 05:59 PM

Yeah, the pointfile is the same place every time. Over by a window I put in-place of a prefab wall (models/darkmod/architecture/modules/interior_mansion01/mansion01_window02.lwo)

 

Is it inside or outside of the brush room?
 


"Why don't we just wait until the map, or area, is fully built and then place a huge brush that encloses all?" :D

 

Yeah, I have frequently mapped that way myself, as a shortcut to testing in game. But it's not a great idea for a few reasons. It has to be done eventually for performance and sound reasons, and you can save a lot of time and headache chasing down internal leaks later if you do it a little at a time.

 

(I assume it's a performance thing, but as a beginner, I'm not understanding why brushes have to be so close to room walls... or if brush thickness/width is a big deal ('hollowed' ones are defaulted to like 8 grid units wide or whatever, so what would happen if I accidentally made it 16 grid units wide?)... or when to intersect / when not to... or why can't the room floor, walls, and ceiling just act as the brushes (i.e., why is there a separate "sealing"?)... so their mysterious nature stresses me out a tad. I like knowing the exact rules so I can rest assured that I'm doing things correctly... but I don't know the main exact rules yet.)

 

 

1.  Brushes need to be close to room walls only if you plan on putting a room or something on the other side.  Otherwise they could be quite a distance away if you like.

2.  There's nothing wrong with 16 units wide brushes, as long as they don't get in the way of something on the other side, as above. Some mappers would never work with anything less than 16, and prefer 32.

3.  Room floors and ceilings could act as sealing brushes (that's how I made my first two missons), but there are reasons why that's not a great idea.  You have more freedom to resize and move them if you know they aren't sealing.  For example, if I suddenly decided I wanted my ceiling a couple units higher, I could move it without worrying about whether that's going to open a gap to the void.  It's also easier to isolate sealing brushwork for testing if they're only doing one job.

4.  The first step is learning what works...the second step is learning WHY it works, and whether it's the best method for you. :)

 

 

Another rookie question: is there a way to "Frame Selected" like in Maya? For example, you have a couch highlighted, and you want to frame the camera onto that object. In Maya, I would just hit "f". When I hit F in DarkRadiant, I have no clue what happens, but it might not be good (my model turns white), haha. I'll look at the hotkey list next time I dive in...

 

Not that I'm aware of.  You can use ctrl + middlemouse click in the xy or xz window to move the camera to the location you click, but I don't know of a way to control the orientation of it.

 



#177 Destined

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:41 AM

Yeah, the pointfile is the same place every time. Over by a window I put in-place of a prefab wall (models/darkmod/architecture/modules/interior_mansion01/mansion01_window02.lwo). It's okay, though...

Check if the origin of the window is inside your brushwork. If the origin lies outside (even if the model itself is completely inside), it will cause a leak.

 

Not that I'm aware of.  You can use ctrl + middlemouse click in the xy or xz window to move the camera to the location you click, but I don't know of a way to control the orientation of it.

The orientation will be kept from where your camera was before. Also, if you click ion the xy-view, the height of teh camera will be kept, so you will have to correct that in the xz/yz-view.



#178 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:24 PM

I mean look at this... at least three layers of defense against the evil pointfile, and the red line spears through like a hot knife through butter :laugh: Re-watching appropriate parts of lessons now :)

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#179 Destined

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:43 PM

If you like, I can have a look. Just copy the map, change the file type to txt and you can post it here (using "More Reply Options").



#180 Springheel

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:57 PM

My guess is that you don't have a texture on your sealing brushes, or that texture has transparent parts.  There's no way for a line to go through a brush otherwise.

 

I'll be happy to look at the map as well if you like.



#181 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:24 PM

Brush problem solved! I just deleted the brushes, floor, ceiling, and sealing... and remade them. Got my room working! Continuing to add decorations...


Edited by Darkness_Falls, 23 July 2017 - 04:40 PM.

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#182 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:58 PM

My map doesn't have any leaks, but the screen is black when I try to play map; only the light gem shows. I have a lit fireplace in it, and put an extra light in the middle of room to test, but still black. Player start position seems fine to me. I can hear the ambient audio track I put in there. I can't pick a weapon. Attaching map...

Thanks for taking a look!

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#183 Springheel

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 06:55 PM

I saved it, dmapped it, and it worked fine.  Room looks pretty cool!

 

Not sure what's going on with it not working for you.  Try deleting all the firstjob_v9 files OTHER than the .map one (.cm, .proc, etc) and dmap again.

 

If that doesn't work,

 

Start the mission, open the console and type "condump [filename]"

 

That will create a .txt file in your darkmod folder.  You can then copy and paste the text here.


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#184 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:29 PM

Success! With that vote of confidence in knowing it works, I deleted all the non-.map files, but it still didn't work. The solution for me was to delete all the non-.map files, exit out of the Dark Mod game entirely, re-launch TDM, dmap it and play. I had been ALT+TAB'bing between Dark Mod and Dark Radiant. I guess it doesn't like that sometimes?

 

Thanks! Now I can get back to outfitting the room how I want. 

 

I wonder why the wall lamps don't cast light? Will look into that. Probably didn't pick those lights from the 'model lights movable' or 'static' folder in Entity area. Yeah, that's it.

 

EDIT: Was able to get some good progress today. I need to add more decorative goodness and such, and then add more rooms, but am feeling a bit more comfortable with the basics, at least. Here's current state (expand spoiler for screenshots). I know there's a few gaps I need to close up or hide. I would like to dim the gas lamps, but I think because they are entities, I can't(?). And moonlight behind windows would be cool, but not sure yet if that's possible either :)

 

Spoiler

Edited by Darkness_Falls, 24 July 2017 - 12:54 AM.

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#185 Springheel

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:11 AM

Looking great! 
 

I would like to dim the gas lamps, but I think because they are entities, I can't(?)

 
You can, but it's kind of an advanced technique:
 

You can change the radius of those light entities by adding:  "set light_radius on flame" "140 140 120"  (remove the quotes, and replace the numbers with whatever radius you want)
 
You can change the intensity of the lights by adding"  "set color on flame"  "0 0 0" and then replace those numbers with the numbers you want--sometimes I turn the light off, put in a manual light and set it to the radius/color values I like, then copy it to the entity.


 

nd moonlight behind windows would be cool, but not sure yet if that's possible either :)

 
Also a bit of a more advanced tecnique.  You can put very, very faint bluish lights near the windows to accomplish this, and then give them an ambient_biground texture (see image below).
 

but am feeling a bit more comfortable with the basics, at least.

 
Cool!  It's working. :)

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#186 Springheel

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:15 AM

Ok, here is lesson 7.  It's not much of a challenge for a master thief if they can walk into any room they want.  This lesson is all about doors--how to make them and what you can change about them once they're made.

 

 

When you're ready for more information about doors, there is a comprehensive wiki page:  http://wiki.thedarkm...php?title=Doors


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#187 Amadeus

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:20 AM

These videos are gold, thanks for all your hard work making them!


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#188 Springheel

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:36 AM

You're welcome! :)



#189 Destined

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 01:50 PM

Today I finally got to watch the doors video. It is very good, as usual :) . And, as usual, I would like to comment on it:

In order to create a door from a brush it is not necessary to turn it into a func_static, first. You can simply right-click on the brush and use "Create entity..." and choose mover->door from there.

The other thing I noticed (although this might have been by choice on your part) is that you did not change the inventory name of the key. This is not nevesserary, but can make it easier for the player, to identify the purpose of the key.



#190 Springheel

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 02:11 PM

In order to create a door from a brush it is not necessary to turn it into a func_static, first. You can simply right-click on the brush and use "Create entity..." and choose mover->door from there.

 
So you can.  I've never actually used that method before but it saves a step.

#191 Obsttorte

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:05 PM

There are door prefabs, actually. :)


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
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#192 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:39 PM

These videos are gold, thanks for all your hard work making them!

They are gold, indeed!

 

When all our maps are done, we should combine them all into one big map and connect them via hallways or staircases, or something ;) Might feel a little like walking through Constantine's mansion, but might be interesting anyways, lol


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#193 DoubleOhZero

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:03 AM

Hi all. Real life has been taking up some time recently so work has been going slow on Take Back What's Yours.

I have all the doors in so far, so thanks for that lesson, Springheel.

The current section I am working on is the underground pipe - I thought of making it round rather than square but patch cylinders have the solid texture face outside of them, and I need the player to crawl through the middle. Is there a way to 'flip' the patch to have the solid face inside?

I also thought of having water in the pipe that the player can splash in - I thought I would intersect the patch with a water textured brush by a small am put so there is a bit of water in the pipe. But then the water must pour into the pipe at the other end in a trickle - How could I achieve flowing water?

Thanks in advance for the advice!
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#194 Destined

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:46 AM

The current section I am working on is the underground pipe - I thought of making it round rather than square but patch cylinders have the solid texture face outside of them, and I need the player to crawl through the middle. Is there a way to 'flip' the patch to have the solid face inside?

If your patch has the solid side one the wrong side, you can invert it by using patch->Matrix->Invert. The default shortcut is ctrl+i.

 

I also thought of having water in the pipe that the player can splash in - I thought I would intersect the patch with a water textured brush by a small am put so there is a bit of water in the pipe. But then the water must pour into the pipe at the other end in a trickle - How could I achieve flowing water?

 

If it is only ankle deep, a brush with water texture should suffice (but I am not 100% sure). If you want any small stuff to float on it (or the brush alone does not have the right sound etc), you would have to create a water entity. I.e. you create a brush in the form you want and give it the water texture on the top and nodraw on the other sides. Then you right click and choose ->Create entity...->Liquids->atdm:liquid_water. As I said, I am not sure if this is actually needed for puddles or a small stream, but it definitely is needed, if the player should be able to swim in it. If it should appear moving, you can simply use a stream texture (textures->water_source->water_stream). You can also check the water section of the A-Z tutorial and the Swimmable Water page.

The flowing down only looks good, if it is really only a trickle, so you can use particles. For this you create a func_emitter (Create entity...->Func->func_emitter) and select the "model" spawnarg. There will be a button "Choose Particle...". From here you will have to see what looks good for yourself.



#195 Springheel

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:48 AM

Water is tricky business, even more so if it needs to look like it's moving (how many missions with moving water can you think of?).  I plan on a video about water but not yet.



#196 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 10:34 PM


The flowing down only looks good, if it is really only a trickle, so you can use particles. For this you create a func_emitter (Create entity...->Func->func_emitter) and select the "model" spawnarg. There will be a button "Choose Particle...". From here you will have to see what looks good for yourself.

 

I would like to make some particle dynamics (at some point... I'm not in a hurry... not until I'm done with the workshop), but I probably need Maya 7 instead of a more recent Maya :.(


Edited by Darkness_Falls, 27 July 2017 - 10:41 PM.


#197 Destined

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 01:50 AM

I actually meant using the existing ones. I have no idea about creating new ones, to be honest. But the version of Maya should not matter, as long as it is compatible with the file type used; or rather as long as you have import/export scripts for the respective file types compatible with your version. This problem is quite common for Blender, but I have never used Maya, so cannot really say anything about that.



#198 Springheel

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 07:56 AM

How does Maya come into play when making particles?



#199 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 09:36 AM

Thanks Destined. I knew what you were meaning :) ... I was just speaking in terms of wanting to make my own particle effects someday.

Springheel - You can make all sorts of dynamic particle effects with Maya, which you probably already know... but that's what I was referring to. When I looked through some of the libraries in DarkRadiant, I saw some particle dynamics. Like impact explosions, water arrow impacts (I assume), etc. I want to improve some or make my own someday, but I only know how to do so in Maya 2014+, or, rather, I don't have/can't get Maya 7. I figured we'd have a similar issue with me not being able to animate, where I don't have Maya 7 and so maybe I can't contribute any dynamics... but maybe cached or alembicized particle dynamics are more possible/compatible from Maya 2014+ ?

I wrote to AutoDesk and they don't have Maya 7 available for download or purchase at all anymore.

Edited by Darkness_Falls, 29 July 2017 - 12:42 AM.


#200 Springheel

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 10:03 AM

You don't need Maya to create particle effects (I'm not even sure whether a Maya-created one would be compatible).  Dark Radiant comes with a particle effects editor, though obviously that's not beginner level stuff.  I've only tried it a couple times myself.





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