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Thief 4 - That Bad?


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#1 bobrpggamer

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:02 AM

Hey, I am a thief lover from the dark project and I am sure we all know the atmosphere, creepy music, sound effects and the Looking Glass chimes or whatever that sound was and complete immersion of it. I know Thief 3 was different take on it because of the console cross platform and it was dumb-ed down a bit and loading different areas was not welcome, but I still enjoyed it.

 

But Thief 4 I am afraid to try, I bought it on a steam sale and have not even downloaded it, and all I can think of is no jumping or mantling, This may be nitpicking but I cannot imagine a thief game without jumping or mantling, and also a lot of thief gamer's where disappointed with it.

 

So please can anyone defend this game or is it too much of a  disgrace to its name. Also the site Through The Looking Glass does not have a forum based on this game, so that says a lot. They fo have a Deadly Shadows section. 

 

 

Oh and check out my video of Thief 3 Deadly Shadows, it really held most aspects of the thief series.



#2 GameDevGoro

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:47 AM

No jumping or mantling? Yes there is, it's just not that you can mantle ANYTHING you want like in Darkmod, it's way more contextual. :P

Don't be afraid to try it out though, they did some things pretty right with the atmosphere and stuff, but, the best thing you can do, and a favor to yourself, is to play the game for what it *is*, rather than what it *could* be. :)

I don't hate that game, I haven't managed to play more than 4 hours or so of it, though. It didn't grip me. But it's in all honesty not THAT bad. It's a shit attempt at what Thief is/should be, since it's largely linear/ at best "open area".
But as a generic game it's not that bad as to warrant any real worry of trying it out, especially if you already own it.

Now, for me, and many others. There are parts of the game that are just try hard? And some of the character dynamic is pretty ham-fisted. There's issues with the controls last two times I tried to play it, it's like very inconsistent. For example: You do one thing with a button, then you have to press another button to stop. stuff like that. It's that "console syndrome" that Deus Ex: Mankind Divided also suffers a little bit from.

 

Still. Try it. Don't mind the rumors, don't go into it with a sour attitude. Just try it. Then you'll know if it's shit or not :P


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#3 demagogue

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:56 AM

People involved in the Darkmod-Square Enix "Thief Mod Contest" during its development got complementary gifts of Thief (4) by SE (which incidentally was very generous of them & a nice gesture of good will towards what we're doing. It's important & very nice that they're cool with our game.) So that's how I got my copy. I've been meaning to get around to it, but other games keep taking priority so I haven't gotten to it just yet.

 

That said, I'm not sure when "just yet" will come around. The only thing that's really drawing me right now is the nice art direction, architecture, and level design (at least the aesthetics) that I'm seeing in screenshots. I like taking notes on the look and design of games (and movies for that matter) to inspire my own mapping.

 

Right now I'm playing through Dishonored 2, though, which also has great art direction & level design, but also wonderful stealth gameplay. You should all give it a try if you haven't yet. So I'm not sure it's a good idea to play Thief after that because I'm not sure the gameplay will hold up well in comparison. But I'll get to it eventually.


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#4 Obsttorte

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:09 AM

I have played Thief 4 several times, which already indicates it can't be that bad :)

 

It has its flaws, definetely, and the fact that jumping and mantling is only contextual is on of them. However, the art and level design is pretty solid, and especially in the beginning the game gives you the typical thief vibe. I think the main issue with this game is that on one side they tried to make something new (which is good, I don't need to play the same game just in better graphics), but on the other side they tried to appeal to the classic thief fans as well as a broad audience. This mixture doesn't work out very well, and the game feels like a big compromise quiet often.

 

However, it is still a good stealth game and as others say if you try not to compare it to its predecessors all the time, you will probably enjoy it.


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#5 Judith

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:38 AM

Art direction and graphics, that was done well, and I liked it. IMO level design was quite flawed in Thief 4. Dishonored did much better job here, because it stuck to classic rules of mission building: multiple ways of entry and exit. Apart from the city hub, Thief 4 felt more like “on rails” experience, with points of no return and focus on cinematic look. That would be fine if used in moderation. For me, it was used way too often.

 

If I was to rate it only on its own, T4 felt like an average / competent game. Story was a bit rubbish, and stealing bucketloads of cutlery was a snoozefest, but the atmosphere was mostly there, and (gamepad) controls + body awareness were done right. Unfortunately, in comparison to the whole Thief legacy, it felt like a big step back.


Edited by Judith, 13 July 2017 - 02:38 AM.


#6 bobrpggamer

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:08 AM

 

Dishonored 2

I loved Dishonored. Dishonored 2 is still at AAA price so I will wait for a sale, the new Deus Ex is still that price as to, and. Deus Ex: Human Revolution a very good game, so sale time around thanksgiving I should pick there up.

 

I also have Styx: Master of Shadows, not too sure about that one and I have some assassins creed games as well. i have been working with a design for a arcade cabinet made out of aluminum and some stainless steel, I have spent at least 8 months with dark mod, as well as the Hammer half life editor and thief 3. I always get into something and take a look at something I really like and forget the rest. I think i can do without a metal arcade cabinet though.

However, it is still a good stealth game and as others say if you try not to compare it to its predecessors all the time, you will probably enjoy it.

Good advice thank you. I guess I wanted a true Thief game with rope arrows and the ability to explore each and every corner and then thinking where was that loot in the mission was, or trying a game on hard level and making sure you are do not make any mistakes, especially in cragscleft - that was hard to do just right.

 

One thing I forgot to mention about the early Thief games,  that was the amazing art design before the next mission also garrets voice I don't think these are irreplaceable.

 

 



#7 bobrpggamer

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:09 AM

Dishonored 2

I loved Dishonored. Dishonored 2 is still at AAA price so I will wait for a sale, the new Deus Ex is still that price as to, and. Deus Ex: Human Revolution a very good game, so sale time around thanksgiving I should pick these up.

 

I also have Styx: Master of Shadows, not too sure about that one and I have some assassins creed games as well. i have been working with a design for a arcade cabinet made out of different types of steel. I spent at least 8 months with dark mod back in 2010, as well as the Hammer half life 2 for a Day of Defeat map back in 2005  and Thief 3 Edit for about a year back in2007. I always get into something and take a look at something and then get distracted from a project and move on to something else.

 

I was working on a steel arcade cabinet design that I will probably put away for now and play thief 4.

However, it is still a good stealth game and as others say if you try not to compare it to its predecessors all the time, you will probably enjoy it.

Good advice thank you. I guess I wanted a true Thief game with rope arrows and the ability to explore each and every corner and then thinking where was that loot in the mission was, or trying a game on hard level and making sure you are do not make any mistakes, especially in cragscleft - that was hard to do just right.

 

One thing I forgot to mention about the early Thief games,  that was the amazing art design before the next mission also garrets voice I don't think these are irreplaceable.

 

Arcade cabinet idea:

 

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Edited by bobrpggamer, 13 July 2017 - 03:40 AM.


#8 Springheel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:44 AM

Thief 4:

 

1.  Story = Terribly Awful

2.  Gameplay = below average to average

3.  Level Design = average to good

3.  Aesthetics = Very good


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#9 chakkman

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:03 AM

3.  Aesthetics = Very good

 

Dunno. I never grew quite fond of those Dishonored style character models (Basso being one of the worst... i mean, seriously, apart from the general model, those hats... why oh why?). While it was ok for Dishonored, i really don't see a point in repeating that graphical style. Even in Prey, i find parts of that style, dunno why it all has to look the same. And as a "real" Thief game, there's especially no point in making it look like something else. The general graphics were ok, but not the general style IMO. But, each to his like. 



#10 Oldjim

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 11:14 AM

As has been mentioned earlier the one real drawback with Thief 4 is the amount of loot hunting you need to do specially on the Master level as things cost a lot more in the shops

Having played through on Thief difficulty then Master I doubt that I will play it again for some considerable time

As a comparison Dishonored 2 has many game play options including "no powers" which introduces another level of difficulty



#11 stumpy

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:54 PM

internal rooms in the game sometimes don't make sense, as in there doesn't seem to be any doorways containing fake doors, player gets in via window, but does the person who lives there do exactly that, without a fake door to the outside or other rooms in the building.



#12 V-Man339

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:27 PM

I made an entire video to emphasize the major failing of Thief 4: a compelte and total lack of immersion.

 

The major failing of Thief 4 is that instead of being even remotely notable, it's largely just vanilla garbage that was rushed out the door (some cutscenes are flat out missing audio for some things) and ends up just feeling like a Dishonored knockoff with massive limitations.


I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.
Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.


#13 bobrpggamer

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:08 PM

I guess I was the game was as bad as I heard from the thief era, and generally use to playing these types of games on a PC - well maybe as the first 2 was PC exclusive - as thief 3 was thought out to be compatible for console, the level changing was believed to be an Xbox problem.

 

But thief 3 at least had colorful characters and garrets voice and even added some interesting wandering through town other than the constant hiding from every guard every time you want to go anywhere in the town.

 

So you are all saying that any resemblance to thief is just the title, and then as just a game itself it is sub par.

 

I hope you are not talking about my Thief FM I posted, and sorry for the double post.



#14 Atomica

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 09:10 PM

Thief 4 is OK. People argue that it's not a true Thief game and to some extent, that's true. It is still a pretty decent stealth game however, but it does have some MAJOR issues:

  • If you want to enter an area through a window you have to bash the E key repeatedly while Garrett breaks in. Since this is actually hiding a loading screen, it makes zero difference how quickly or slowly or how much you press that key - it's just there to give the player some sense of immersion. Since it's just an artificial action that the player can't actually speed up on their own, I'd rather the game just play the breaking-in animation for however long it actually takes, and save my keyboard in the process.
  • The developers were so obsessed with developing a full-body experience for Garrett that they went overboard with animating every single action... especially when searching for and acquiring loot. Pick up that loot, OK I'll just reach out and grab it. Search that drawer, OK I'll just reach out and pull it out, grab the loot if it's there and then close the drawer. They're fairly quick animations and don't sound so bad, until it becomes clear that this is how opening things and grabbing loot is done for the entire game. It slows shit down considerably, and I'm not convinced it improves immersion all that much if you don't see your hands doing the work.
  • There are some forced chase cinematics that play regardless of how well you've been a sneaky thief. Part of me doesn't mind this because it helps reinforce the fact that sometimes shit just happens regardless of how well you've been ghosting, but it changes the tone of the game in such a manner that it's quite jarring.
  • The audio engine is buggy, in particular with people speaking. Often you'll see subtitles for things that you simply can't hear, while other times you'll hear a conversation at normal volume despite the participants being much further away than they should be to have that level of volume.

I've played through it once and have tried multiple times to replay it, but the replays never get far. Honestly I prefer to go back to the Dark Mod because it's less bloated with this unnecessary shit.


Edited by Atomica, 13 July 2017 - 09:10 PM.

Oh my God! JC! A bomb!


#15 bobrpggamer

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:26 PM

 

I made an entire video to emphasize the major failing of Thief 4: a complete and total lack of immersion.

It was a decent intro, but why does he say Booosh every time he finds loot - is this a word in another language I am unaware of, and is there an option to get rid of that?

 

Has anyone tried Styx: Master of Shadows? I have it put it's not installed.

 

OK, I started the game prologue and thankfully no weird noise with loot, I feel sorry for the gamers with that sound, its like some sort of torture or a deliberate way to keep immersion out of the game.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 13 July 2017 - 11:07 PM.


#16 Atomica

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:59 PM

It was a decent intro, but why does he say Booosh every time he finds loot - is this a word in another language I am unaware of, and is there an option to get rid of that?

I can't remember if looting itself makes a noise (from memory I think it has a quiet "swoosh" sound effect when you swipe something), but according to that video's YouTube page, the "WOOSH!" sound was added in for comedic effect and is not how it sounds in game.


Edited by Atomica, 13 July 2017 - 10:59 PM.

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#17 bobrpggamer

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 11:10 PM

 

I can't remember if looting itself makes a noise (from memory I think it has a quiet "swoosh" sound effect when you swipe something), but according to that video's YouTube page, the "WOOSH!" sound was added in for comedic effect and is not how it sounds in game.

Yeah that would never make it out a 2 person playtest, had me scared there.



#18 Destined

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 01:04 AM

Has anyone tried Styx: Master of Shadows? I have it put it's not installed.

I liked Styx very much! You have a lot of possibilities for choosing your way and a lot of verticality. It also rewards ghosting and no-killing without enforcing it. The character is also a cynical asshole, which I found very fitting (he is a goblin after all). I would definitely recommend the game. If you want a longer discussion about it, there was a thread about the game.

I am currently playing the second part, but haven't gotten very far, so I cannot really say too much about it. It is very similar to the first part, as long as I have played.


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#19 bobrpggamer

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 04:35 AM

 

I liked Styx very much! You have a lot of possibilities for choosing your way and a lot of verticality. It also rewards ghosting and no-killing without enforcing it. The character is also a cynical asshole, which I found very fitting (he is a goblin after all). I would definitely recommend the game. If you want a longer discussion about it, there was a thread about the game.

I am currently playing the second part, but haven't gotten very far, so I cannot really say too much about it. It is very similar to the first part, as long as I have played

I thought Garret was a self serving anti-hero enough, so the goblin would be cool to play. The video on my FM for Thief III would - I know your tired of hearing about it - with the  secret doors and so many places to hide, I would make even on easy level no killing and at higher no seen bodies or blood. I run my way around the guards to easily.

 

So now Thief 4 or Styx, I don't know but I do thank all who offered their opinion.

 

I know you may think this sounds like Lobster or Steak, but one amazing good side of Steam is the ridiculous sales and buying AAA games a year later for $5.00-$15.00 and that's why I have so many games to play from Steam, GOG and Gamers Gate that I forget the games I have.

 

I have 219 Steam games - It is ridiculous do to the bundles of 20 games but are only interested in 3 or so, but they are $20.00 for an entire publisher, so how can you go wrong.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 14 July 2017 - 05:31 AM.


#20 Obsttorte

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 05:03 AM

The Styx games are both very good. The second part was on sale a month ago or so so I bought it.

 

The only thing I did not like that much about the second part is that they introduced some rpg-like elements, which feels weird and does not really fit the game. But it doesn't destroy the overall experience.


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#21 Bikerdude

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

1.  Story = Terribly Awful

2.  Gameplay = below average to average

3.  Level Design = average to good

3.  Aesthetics = Very good

On the nail.

 

@GameDevGoro, hey stranger long time no see.


Edited by Bikerdude, 14 July 2017 - 02:41 PM.


#22 bobrpggamer

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:11 PM

Bikerdude: another Through The Looking Glass Alumni.

 

Just a question, how old were you when The Dark Project was released sometime in 98, I was 31, and was blown away by it, when FPS's were all about finding the best guns - except Half Life.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 14 July 2017 - 09:16 PM.


#23 GameDevGoro

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 03:09 AM

Looks like I'm gonna have to be THAT guy. My opinion is as such thaaaaat.... Styx sucks.

 

Hol on, lemme elaborate!

A bit blunt, but I feel it's honestly squandered on trying to be ha-ha-funny rather than just setting up a world, and having whatever happens in it, happen. It doesn't suck so much as a game, you know as for having fun with. I think the presentation sucks.

 

It drags in semi-relevant pop-culture references and has WAY too many fart-jokes... I get that he's a goblin. Farts and goblins go hand-in-hand. But sometimes those kinds of details are best left to the imagination. Since it distracts and is only really funny auditory, not conceptually.

 

But yeah, that's needless to say, really to each their own haha :D

Just felt I needed to point that out for reference. I have a few friends who feel this way as well so it's probably not that unique an opinion.

My perpetual opinion about any form of fictional work is, things can be "fun", without being "funny".

 

 

@Bikerdude: Man, it has been! I lost my acc there for a while, but now that Microsoft has new terms of whatever-whatever I was able to get the connected mail-acc back finally. Didn't think that was gonna happen. I've lurked on the site every now and then though :) Could've made a second account, really. Wouldn't have mattered. But I've been really, really hard at work, and still am, so the only day-to-day "online social activity" is venting random stuff on twitter.


Edited by GameDevGoro, 15 July 2017 - 03:46 AM.


#24 bobrpggamer

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 05:26 AM

OK, that said i don't need a laugh track, but I can understand - but the saving grace for Fable on the PC was to fart so much it drove a bully away. We all have our sense of humor, I go with some dry humor, and a good fart joke can give me a belly laugh. The thing that drives me to Horror movies - they are all the same, maybe 1 out of 20 can be interesting, is the complete lack of funny movies and TV shows, other than The Trailer Park Boys and the last movie that had me laughing crazily was Step Brothers.

 

We all have a different sense of humor as I said and since Step Brothers with Will Ferrel, I can barely chuckle or have a good laugh.

 

I knew a guy that was very intelligent and computer tech wise, (don't take this wrong - but he also stabbed his friend in the heart so many times the coroner could not count) but he had the corniest jokes that I have heard. I never payed attention to that but my friend was very supportive to that theory, but i would not go out of my way to say that's not funny, (beside that I don't want him to stab me to death) because maybe someone does think his corny jokes are indeed funny.

 

Gameplay and fun, and being so involved that I forget to save for 5 hours that's the game I will enjoy. Personally I can look beyond dumb jokes and get to gaming. Maybe to some that is not possible. I knew a group of people that said that anyone that likes Family Guy or Monty Python is so far bellow them, Well hopefully they are very very far below me now.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 15 July 2017 - 05:34 AM.

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#25 bobrpggamer

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 06:52 AM

Well I have started Thief 4 without the annoying Swooosh, and my biggest complaint is the hand holding though the level so far. The story so far is reminiscent of Dishonored and the cut scenes are well done well but I imagine they will soon become annoying as well.

 

I HATE the X-Box from the first to the newest. I hope I did not offend anyone just my personal belief. Every PC AAA game is designed around the X-Box, and the UN-removed PC versions that have "press O or X or A" is proof.

 

I want to explore so I am hoping I will be allowed some free roaming in the later parts. But still not as bad as I expected, but then again I enjoyed and liked Dungeon Lords.






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