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Thief 4 - That Bad?


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#76 bobrpggamer

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:15 PM

 

I'm going to assume you don't understand the satire or this isn't sarcasm and aren't triggered by homosexual remarks, if only for the sake of discussion.

 

The video is a criticism of Thief 4. The ending mocks the demographic that might actually be playing the game, the "lowest common denominator" if you will. This is small children with a massive inability to feel important that buy games and yell on microphones about how great their performance at said games are.

These children often use that as an insult online. I would know, I've been told by many children to suck dick, and have had my sexuality (and my mother's sexuality!) stated in an insulting fashion by children such as these on numerous occasion!

 

Luckily, the video is mocking these children and not advocating that you or anyone suck dick, as it would be improper to do so in a legitimate manner.

If you'd like, I can let my friend who voiced the sound effects and the bit at the end of the video know that he truly impacted someone in life because of how good his acting was! I'm fairly sure he will love being told he was able to pull off the voice of "a 12 year old with the wisdom of a mentally challenged 8 year old negro."

I would say "I hope explaining the joke has made the video funny" but that's not how humor works.

 

Either way, good luck with your medication, your post makes me wonder if you may need to take it more often or in higher doses, even if only because you seem oddly obsessed with dark skinned individuals.

I don't even need to read this a apologize. People that are weak in prison suck dicks to get by, this is fucked up and I took its as lots of people fucking with me telling me to suck their dick, I would rather cut it off and hand it to them.

 

I never went to prison but have heard this constantly in jail and hospitals and it pisses me off (hey bob want to slob on my knob, hey I will give you a joint if you suck my dick on and on).

 

Somehow a person that resembles me sucked dicks in Folsom State Penitentiary to survive, and this is the reason for the jokes about sucking a dick.

 

To be honest I thought this was made to fuck with me with the suck my dick at the end. If you heard the fucked up crap that has been said about me by perfect strangers, you may at least forgive me. here are some of my supporters: https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/You

 

I am surprised I have not been banned and I feel like I should.

 

Please, please forgive me, seeing how you guys haven't banned me I cannot believe I wrote this.

 

I've been told by many children to suck dick

Yeah I forgot the Xbox.



#77 Springheel

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:41 PM

Please, please forgive me, seeing how you guys haven't banned me I cannot believe I wrote this.

 

 

Let's make that the end of that topic.



#78 bobrpggamer

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:42 PM

 

Let's make that the end of that topic.

Yes!



#79 V-Man339

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 10:37 PM

Agreed, and moving on

 

See, i always wonder about the point of such videos as the Thief 4 rant video above (even though i only watched the end, but i can imagine what it is about). They just don't make big games for the target audience of the usual TDM player anymore. Nowadays crowd can't be arsed to use their heads anymore, they need quest markers, and they need games which almost play themselves, Assassins Creed style. We are a dying breed. I'm almost 40 now,and i simply don't feel targetted by nowadays AAA games anymore. There are a few exceptions, but, even on those, you see the development. I don't blame them though. They want to sell games, they want to keep the games industry running, so they can't develop past the (young) target audience. Simply a fact you either accept, or not. 

 

BTW, i do think that there are comfortable functions in more modern game, which are quite helpful, and positive (e.g. ... erm... quest markers :P). For me, it's rather about a compromise between sparing the player of annoying, and repeating things, and giving him enough to do, and enough control over his actions. But, i guess, that's pretty obvious, and a frequent game design decision, and consideration. I'm really into the Bethesda RPG's ATM, especially the Fallout's, and i do think that they're a pretty good compromise, in those regards. 

I can safely say that the point of the video is to provide a sort of summary as to why, how and what the problems were for people who

  1. Don't read articles that can tell them as much.
  2. Aren't smart enough to decipher it for themselves.

As much as you may or may not like it Plinkett's review style deep analysis of entertainment is going to be the future in terms of information dispersal, if only because it reaches more people than any other method.

As a result, videos like that which directly compare and contrast how Thief 4 didn't do things as well as Thief Gold/2 are some of the best short hand to toss to a friend when explaining why they should buy the (better and cheaper) classics.


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#80 Destined

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:14 AM

See, i always wonder about the point of such videos as the Thief 4 rant video above (even though i only watched the end, but i can imagine what it is about). They just don't make big games for the target audience of the usual TDM player anymore. Nowadays crowd can't be arsed to use their heads anymore, they need quest markers, and they need games which almost play themselves, Assassins Creed style. We are a dying breed. I'm almost 40 now,and i simply don't feel targetted by nowadays AAA games anymore. There are a few exceptions, but, even on those, you see the development. I don't blame them though. They want to sell games, they want to keep the games industry running, so they can't develop past the (young) target audience. Simply a fact you either accept, or not. 

 

BTW, i do think that there are comfortable functions in more modern game, which are quite helpful, and positive (e.g. ... erm... quest markers :P). For me, it's rather about a compromise between sparing the player of annoying, and repeating things, and giving him enough to do, and enough control over his actions. But, i guess, that's pretty obvious, and a frequent game design decision, and consideration. I'm really into the Bethesda RPG's ATM, especially the Fallout's, and i do think that they're a pretty good compromise, in those regards. 

I get lazy myself sometimes. Playing the latest Styx game, for example, I also use the quest markers, although I regularly think I should disable them...

As for AAA games, there are examples that are very difficult and are still quite popular. Best example would be the Dark Souls series (of which I still have not finished the first part). This, in general, does not explain a lot by itself and has the player find out most mechanics for himself. Even later in the game, each enemy can kill you more or less easily, if you are careless and you have to find the way forward for yourself. So, if you make a difficult game, you still can have a large audience. I think the problem is that the industry underestimates the abilities of gamers and would not lose too many players if the games had a higher difficulty.



#81 chakkman

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 05:18 AM

@ V-Man339: I don't know if you really can compare the classic Thief's to Thief 4 though. They always made it clear that it is a reboot, and there's more than 10 years between the games. Also, if you take the classic Thief's, and go even further back in time, you will realize that the Thief's also feature a lot of stuff to make the games considerably more convenient compared to what games have been like 10 years ago from that. So, it's sort of a development, which isn't entirely limited to what games are like nowadays. It's just that we may be at a point now where it is questionable whether we need more comfort, or not, and where it cuts into the gameplay, because it may take too much responsibility from the player. On the other hand, games always reflect the times they have been released at, and what has been catered to us player at the time we were in our "golden years" of course suits us the best. As i mentioned, nowadays generation of young players will absolutely yawn at the classic Thief's gameplay. I find Thief 4's gameplay more yawnable, but, it shows a lot of the virtues, which are so common to games these days. IMO, it's simply a matter of the target audience.


Edited by chakkman, 26 July 2017 - 05:19 AM.


#82 Anderson

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:22 AM

It's not just the target audience. The Thief trilogy was beyond any argument more gothic aesthetically and this made wonders for the plot and the narrative and the presentation. That is simply not the case for Thief 4 on its own merits. Maybe odd example but probably that's why The Elder Scrolls II Daggerfall is better than Arena. Has a 3D map, allows more freedom, tried to give  a better tutorial. Maybe not to important when both games are a hurdle to play but you get the idea. Daggerfall was also inarguably darker and more gothic.


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

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#83 chakkman

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

Well, it surely has a reason that it rather got 70 ratings than 80's, or 90's. But, it just shows a lot of things which make nowadays games so annoying, because all the responsibility is taken from the player, because the kids like it like that. Look at Assassins Creed. I really like the older Tomb Raider games, because they do require some patience, and push of the buttons, and controls at the right time. In Assassins Creed, you just press W to climb every skyscraper. :P The prototype of the nowadays casual game, which just doesn't demand anything from the player, and merely impresses by graphics, and game world (even though even the game world is pretty dull TBH).


Edited by chakkman, 26 July 2017 - 11:09 AM.


#84 bobrpggamer

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 04:00 PM

This is about that Whiskey subject earlier. I bought a bottle of Evens Williams and I would have to say it has an excellent taste and the smoky aroma and taste is there as well, and It is 1/2 the price as Jack.

 

Now I leave my home for 6 hours and it will be replaced with a bit of paint thinner. Still good Whiskey for those frugal Safeway shoppers here in the US.

 

Thief 1 and 2 will never be reproduced, the more they try the worse it will be as you are in game and thinking "they are just trying to make this look like the first 2" and then the game will UN-immerse you with that thought.

 

I get lazy myself sometimes. Playing the latest Styx game, for example, I also use the quest markers, although I regularly think I should disable them...

This is not Wizardry or Bards Tale or others, If you are stuck you may need help, also the frustration I had in Wizardry 6 was emotionally scaring - where the fuck is that key or whatever after 3 days of frustration I wish I had quest marker's back then.

 

Can anyone say they never fast traveled in Oblivion or Skrim?

 

I left the house for 2 or so hours and the whiskey has paint thinner in it.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 02 August 2017 - 07:45 PM.


#85 bobrpggamer

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:01 PM

 

Thief 1 and 2 will never be reproduced, the more they try the worse it will be as you are in game and thinking "they are just trying to make this look like the first 2" and then the game will UN-immerse you with that thought.

I was doing some searching on great rock guitarists and, I am sorry but Jimmy Hendrix is WAY overrated in my opinion. I like Buck Dharma, Micheal shienker, Tony Iommi and Richie Blackmore.

 

But one thing caught my attention and it was said that no one could play like him (if you like him or not). Then went on to say if you are playing like him you just trying to hard to sound like him it and it is obvious. Same with Kieth Moon, and Looking Glass Studios.

 

I wish Looking Glass would come out of the shadows but I doubt that will happen.

 

That paint thinner or turpentine my enemies replaced with my whiskey has had me sick for 2 days. I was being proud of my constitution and was drinking it anyway and had half a fifth of that crap and I guess I am not that internally strong. If I want a bottle of alcohol ever again I will get a half pint and not leave the house.

 

I am sorry for that last part but it's true.



#86 bobrpggamer

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:40 PM

One thing I noticed in the keep is that there are no footstep sounds from the AI at all, one minute I am in the shadows doing whatever and a Non-Guard NPC is right behind me, and starts running around, (and on master level I cannot blackjack the non-combat NPC's) this was never a problem with the other Thief's.

 

Not really that important but it is frustrating. If you watch my Thief 3 FM you will notice  guards or NPC's footsteps even on carpet.

 

Also the in game cut-scenes are ridiculous and draw your attention away meaning immersion is ruined.

 

After chapter 5 I a little tired of it, need to redo side missions to get equipment and thats not too exiting in itself.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 21 August 2017 - 03:44 AM.


#87 kano

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 03:14 AM

Well I have started Thief 4 without the annoying Swooosh, and my biggest complaint is the hand holding though the level so far. The story so far is reminiscent of Dishonored and the cut scenes are well done well but I imagine they will soon become annoying as well.

 

I HATE the X-Box from the first to the newest. I hope I did not offend anyone just my personal belief. Every PC AAA game is designed around the X-Box, and the UN-removed PC versions that have "press O or X or A" is proof.

 

I want to explore so I am hoping I will be allowed some free roaming in the later parts. But still not as bad as I expected, but then again I enjoyed and liked Dungeon Lords.

Damn straight. Xbox destroyed the perfection that used to be PC gaming. Prior to Xbox, games which were targeted at the PC crowd were developed for the PC first. This meant that we got large maps, higher quality textures, and modding tools. All of these things went away when Xbox took over. And then on the PC, a bunch of slimy publishers started deciding for me that I want to use an online service just to play a single player game by myself.

 

These aspects are why I won't pay more than $10 for a modern game. Modern games aren't a Thief or a Doom, (games which continue to entertain for decades with fan made enhancements and content). They're pretty much disposable now. You don't even know if modern games will still work in a decade; whether the online services that they are shackled to will still be up and running.

 

And since everything is developed for a console, I might as well just pick up used disks from the second hand bin for five bucks instead of shelling out AAA prices while the industry literally could not care less about what I want as a consumer.


Edited by kano, 27 August 2017 - 03:18 AM.


#88 Abusimplea

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 05:16 PM

Of course, modern single player games will continue to work after the servers shut down - that is what cracks are for.

And yes, consoles really affected PC gaming very badly. But i think, today's shallow games are not shallow because of consoles' technical limitations anymore (current consoles got enough RAM and CPU power to support big maps and lots of world state). They are just targetting an enourmous and more casual audience.

Do not even spend the five bucks for a second hand copy of that casual AAA-stuff. It will just waste your time. Search for the real thing until you find it.

 

 

I think, i might try to play the new Thief again - hope they got the crash bugs patched by now. I hate cutscenes but like AAA graphics and the Dishonored style.



#89 Obsttorte

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 02:34 AM

I don't really see how consoles screwed up games either.

 

Ok, back in the day there were some differences between the hardware specs of the consoles and what you could get on a pc, and Thief Deadly Shadows is a good example for that. Would it have been pc only, they probably wouldn't split up the maps like they did. On the other side this caused the hardware requirements to be pretty low (a 1.8 GHz CPU in a time where there were already 3 GHz ones). So people with good hardware complained, and those with old rigs were probably quiet happy that they don't have to spent money just in order to play the new thief. ;)

 

Today the differences in hardware are neglectable, I think. Also, games with huge open world and stunning graphics aren't neccessarely good, and games with restricted levels and not up to date graphics aren't neccessarely bad either. So this isn't a hardware matter anyways.

 

And claiming that the audience became more casual either because of the consoles is also wrong imho. Personally I came from consoles (well, GameBoy), and many of the games I played as a child were pretty demanding. The first Super Mario didn't had a save function, and even if you played continuosly you only had a limited amount of times you could die, before you had to start from the beginning again. Prince of Persia was brutal, too, newer made it even to the mid of the game.

 

The audience became more casual, that is true, but only because the medium as a whole became more popular. When I was young games were for kids and nerds, today everyone plays them and it is completely normal. It is exactly the same with movies or TV series. You have the small, cheap productions which hold some perls for you, and you have the big blockbusters with up to date visual effects, which are most often pretty shallow, though.

 

It can be pretty entertaining to watch a blockbuster movie, and it can be pretty entertaining to play a AAA game. But if you want more, you have to search for the good things, as they will probably not be suitable for the broad audience.

 

The main issue is money, me thinks. It is just much more worthwhile to produce for the broad masses instead for a small clientele of "connoisseurs". :(


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#90 bobrpggamer

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 06:58 PM

here is an example for windows games like Flatout Ultimate Carnage, GTA IV, and many other "GAMES FOR WINDOWS" live.

 

https://support.xbox...ndows-live-info

 

Get a magnifying glass and find some info for "GAMES FOR WINDOWS" part of it as It seems to support another platform a bit more, it has got so bad that it should not ever be used in a PC game again, because you have to go to this website and setup the PC supported games before you can play. Now imagine a world without the Xbox and then going to "GAMES FOR WINDOWS" Live and setup your PC game. Also look at the tab icon in Firefox, It seems to prefer another platform in another way I never noticed before.

 

You will understand when you see this as to what I am talking about. I don't hate or dislike PS1 - PS4, or Nintendo consoles, I loved Sonic The Hedgehog and Super Mario World.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 28 August 2017 - 07:06 PM.


#91 kano

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 08:04 PM

Thief Deadly Shadows suffered somewhat because of the Xbox, but Deus Ex Invisible War was a literal disaster. The levels were *so tiny*. Constant long loading segments actually does draw me out of a game when it's a quest-based game and I need to traverse from A to B and then to A again.

 

Xbox had a 733 MHz CPU, not 1.8 GHz. lol It also had 64 MB of memory, which was why content had to be so limited. It is amazing that they managed to fit Doom 3 on the thing, without sacrificing too much graphical quality. They did have to chop up the levels though (into smaller segments than the PC version had).



#92 Obsttorte

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:17 AM


Xbox had a 733 MHz CPU, not 1.8 GHz

I never said that the XBox had 1.8 GHz, I said that this was the minimum requirement (iirc) to play TDS on a PC. Compared to other games from that time period this was pretty low.

 

I agree that the level splitting wasn't optimal. But in regards to Deus Ex Invisible War it is worth mentioning that the first Deus Ex used split levels, too, even though most of those areas where larger in scale (but not all).

 

I don't say that the fact that games don't always get developed for PC only does not have any negative side effects, the above mentioned games show that they do. But those effects are mainly due to hardware restrictions, so the side effects might occour in regards to graphics or level size for example, or the way the input works in some games. But this doesn't include gameplay. Those changes have different sources as described in my previous post.

 

@bob: I am not quiet sure I get the Games for Windows stuff. I haven't played one of those games for a while, so I don't know the current state, but back in the day I had no issues with said games. Might have changed, though.

 

It might be interesting to think it the other way round. Games only get developed for PC, studios are trying to push the boundaries of what the hardware can achieve to its limits, trying to get the best graphics and the biggest worlds (not like there weren't some who are trying). What is the benefit? You have to buy yourself a new PC every two years?

 

I really don't get this "cuz of consoles I can't play stunning looking games on my new crazy rig" discussion. As said, if we are talking about gameplay, it is all about what sells best to the consumers. And if we are talking about what's going on outside of the games (Steam, UPlay etc...), then it is all about what the consumers tolerate. If back in the day when Valve introduced Steam all (or at least most) consumers would have decided to not use the platform, it would not exist anymore. If people would in general not buy games that requires DRM, or would punish publishers for "bad behaviour" (content gets cut out and shipped as dlc later on for example) by not buying any more of their products, things might change. But assuming that the fault for all bad things to happen is that game studios develop their games for several platforms to reach a broader audience (which is what I would do in their case, too), seems a bit futile to me.


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#93 Judith

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:11 AM

GfWL was awful, but Steam got to the point where it made PC gaming as easily accessible as in Xbox/Playstation dashboard. And that's a good thing. I can't remember the last time when I thought about downloading all the necessary patches or drivers for a game, or to restore my backed-up save files. Steam does it all for me, so I don't waste time for that. Also, console games make PC hardware usable for longer. If you have a strong CPU/mobo/RAM combo, you can buy new GPU every 3 years, and you're good for a long time. I also love that there is controller support for 99% of games that come out now. Unless you're making a flight sim (or an e-sport game), you don't need all keyboard keys for controls. Controllers are more comfortable to use for longer time, and the camera movement isn't so jerky with analog controls, so I can easily play for 2-3 hours straight without eye fartigue.

 

All of this is a result of unification of standards that came from the console world.


Edited by Judith, 29 August 2017 - 01:11 AM.


#94 Destined

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:12 AM

If people would in general not buy games that requires DRM, or would punish publishers for "bad behaviour" (content gets cut out and shipped as dlc later on for example) by not buying any more of their products, things might change.

And this has actually happened. Assassin's Creed 2 had a terrible "always online" DRM, which caused the game to be a huge flop on PC, while it selled quite well on consoles. It was also, why I decided to play it on the PlayStation rather than the PC. The Amazon reviews were 1-Star only, because of the DRM and a short time later the DRM was patched. It was not removed, but at least you did not have to be online all the time.



#95 Abusimplea

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:05 AM

I really don't get this "cuz of consoles I can't play stunning looking games on my new crazy rig" discussion.

There was a time where consoles had extremely limited specs in comparison to the average gaming PC. Games that had to run smoothly on consoles had to have rather small levels, simple geometry, small textures and extremely limited world state. That years preceeding the PS4 are where "cuz of consoles I can't play stunning looking games on my new crazy rig" came from. It was true back then and especially RPGs suffered badly.
 
That time is over now. The quote is not true anymore. Current consoles can handle an uncut Fallout 4 or Skyrim quite well. PC gamers can still get bigger textures, higher frame rates or more detailed geometry if they are willing to spend more on their rig. But even my gaming PC from more than ten years ago can handle current titles quite well regardijg CPU and RAM. I replaced the HDD with an SSD to get better load times and the GPU (twice) to get playable frame rates in newer games.
 

Controllers are more comfortable to use for longer time, and the camera movement isn't so jerky with analog controls, so I can easily play for 2-3 hours straight without eye fartigue.

Only 3 hours? I had sessions 24 hours long and 12 hours are still okay if i find the time. I do not own a console. But if i had one, i would attach keyboard and mouse to it. I would certainly not be able to have fun with the Darkmod or Starcraft with a console-style controller. Of course it is also a matter of taste and whether games are optimized for a limited number of keys or less-precise pointing devices. But RTS and first person 3D games seem to be a natural keyboard and mouse territory (at least without VR goggles).
 

All of this is a result of unification of standards that came from the console world.

When it comes to unification of standards i would point out the CPU architecture of all big current consoles: AMD x64. We got the unification because everybody stopped to do their own thing. AMD united them.



#96 Destined

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:39 AM

Only 3 hours? I had sessions 24 hours long and 12 hours are still okay if i find the time. I do not own a console. But if i had one, i would attach keyboard and mouse to it. I would certainly not be able to have fun with the Darkmod or Starcraft with a console-style controller. Of course it is also a matter of taste and whether games are optimized for a limited number of keys or less-precise pointing devices. But RTS and first person 3D games seem to be a natural keyboard and mouse territory (at least without VR goggles).

It strongly depends on what the game is designed for. Most games designe for consoles are also designed for controler controls. Replacing them with mouse and keyboard can lead to a worse gaming experience. As an example I played "Ocarina of Time" via emulator with mouse and keyboard, but I had to quit at some point as I could not solve a couple of puzzles that required to point your shield in a certain direction, because the keyboard only knows "hit button", and has no gradual proceeding as the analog stick has. Another example would be Dark Souls, which is basically unplayable with mouse and keyboard (at least from what I have heard).

For me, I prefer controler for 3rd person games and platformers, while I prefer mouse and keyboard for 1st person (be it shooter or RPG) and RTS.



#97 Judith

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:42 AM

Yeah, I'm not 15 anymore, and I spend most of my working time in front of a screen. So yeah, spending even more time in front of a monitor is tiresome, and rapid mouse movement adds to that. All those improvements I mentioned are UX/UI things, so something impacting players in much more visible manner. And it began roughly with X360/PS3 era. Unified CPU architecture came with XOne/PS4, and players won't care about such things much, as long as games look good and have stable framerates.



#98 Abusimplea

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:14 AM

Yeah, I'm not 15 anymore, and I spend most of my working time in front of a screen. So yeah, spending even more time in front of a monitor is tiresome, and rapid mouse movement adds to that.

VR will fix that. You can wear the screen instead of sitting in front of it ;)
 

All those improvements I mentioned are UX/UI things, so something impacting players in much more visible manner. And it began roughly with X360/PS3 era.

UX/UI-wise i am strongly against quicktime events, consolified fighting (had to drop the Witcher 3 because of that), and bad UI design like vanilla Skyrim's menus (thankfully mods fixed that).
Steam is okay as long as they do not get a monopoly (i prefer GoG and game homepages).

 

Installing a PC game was hard for some in the DOS era. Since they got simple installers even my old mom would have been able to do that. For some, the cloud is really good for backups though. They would not care to backup their (obviously) worthless data otherwise...

 

Unified CPU architecture came with XOne/PS4, and players won't care about such things much, as long as games look good and have stable framerates.

Players did rant against consoles because they limited indirectly what games looked like on PC too. Tech specs did matter a lot. Well they do not anymore because consoles are just specialized PCs without the legacy stuff now.

And mods on consoles are a thing now. Guess why they where not before.



#99 Judith

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:48 AM

VR doesn't fix anything. It makes people sick, and PR-wise we're getting back to the gamer-nerds-with-weird-gadgets era. Until they manage to get something like hololens fully working with games, we're going nowhere. Right now it's just successful marketing for a niche audience.

 

Installing a game could easily be a nightmare in 90s and early 2000s too, where you had to install a game from disc, then it would crash, you had to find a reason why, maybe search for a patch, then maybe for 3d accelerator/GPU drivers or some additional libraries, and then maybe, after additional hour or two spent managing your game, you could finally launch it. Thanks to Steam and its model borrowed from Xbox Live/PSN, I haven't had that problem for over 10 years. I download a game which is already being installed on my HDD, it installs all additional libraries on the first launch, and I'm playing it. And all my saves ale in the cloud, so I don't have to dig in the folders or back them up e.g. when I want to reinstall my system. When I have like 2 hours in the evening I can spend playing, the time I save on that matters a lot.

 

And it wasn't consoles that limited the look of the game, as much as CD/DVD capacity. You had a bit better look on PC because of the higher resolution, but assets were limited to publisher's decision on how many discs the game would be shipped on. That was dropped later on, when "play from DVD" feature stopped being one of the priorities for the devs.


Edited by Judith, 29 August 2017 - 07:48 AM.


#100 bobrpggamer

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:09 AM

 

@bob: I am not quiet sure I get the Games for Windows stuff. I haven't played one of those games for a while, so I don't know the current state, but back in the day I had no issues with said games. Might have changed, though.

Its a disaster at least an hour to get a game going and then it starts your game, but I believe you have to login and even that's difficult now, and if you do nut upgrade the GFL platform you will be instructed that you will not be able to play the game you bought, and the upgrade process is ridiculous. Steam is a simple easy and with the right bandwidth the best platform for all these online activation's.

 

Another game that I am sure no one would like was Bulletstorm that was another GWL game I played.

 

I think there has been a shift in PC games lately and not the ones who are XBox Controller games, Some Indy games and steam has brought boatloads of PC first games as seen in some of the newer RPG and Horror Genre videos on YouTube. But I hate when I see a press button A or press button X on a PC game I would never think to use a controller with especially any first Person games.

 

As far as mods on older games like TDM which I found in 2009 or so for Doom 3, I bought Doom 3 Retail version just for it. Battlefield 2 is so modifiable and has been modded in so many ways it can keep a (non CSS) FPS player busy for years. Forgotten Hope 2.4 on the latest BF2 was amazing! I miss the bot match games like BF2, the campaings system on the older previously bot match games is not worth the money, BF3 - BF4 I made the mistake of buying BF Bad Company and I found out that these games are strictly MP - which is good for some but i had my problems on my first HL2 Deathmatch that the players on the other screen are 50% people you would not want to play online with. There was a few Day of Defeat Source matches I played with people that wanted to play and not clown around like 12 year old bullied kids.

 

Its just me probably with so much dislike for the Xbox, but some Xbox guys probably hate playing on a PC, cannot get the whole ASDW Mouse strafe from the Doom days down quite yet.

 

My list of god to bad online DRM

 

1: Steam (offline play)

2: EA Origin still decent

3: Uplay from Ubisoft - if you lose your password you are treated like you are planning a bank robbery.

4: GFL - a complete mess (it will make you want an Xbox - and I believe that is the point).

 

It might be interesting to think it the other way round. Games only get developed for PC, studios are trying to push the boundaries of what the hardware can achieve to its limits, trying to get the best graphics and the biggest worlds (not like there weren't some who are trying). What is the benefit? You have to buy yourself a new PC every two years?

This is the reason some or a lot of people just settle for an Xbox, PS3 or PS4, I think Wii is a different platform altogether.

 

Asus Sabertooth X79.
Intel i7 3960X Stock.
16 GB PC 1600 Quad channel (4X4GB) Stock.
HT-Omega Clarro II (I think PCI) 2 Digital outs (1 Optical / 1 Coax) for Digital Headphones and Speakers, 3 3.5 outs (Front, Rear and Center).

A boatload of drives but that's not important, except for my games drive which is a Velociraptor 10,000 RPM 1TB.

The only upgrade I have made since 2012 is the GTX 1080 and a new Corsair 1200 watt Power Supply.

Look at my benchmarks and this 2012 PC with a few Upgrades can play them all.

 

I think you remember the Intel Vs AMD and Nvidia Vs ATI days, the power has been all but tapped in my opinion as far a great strides in performance.
 

I really don't get this "cuz of consoles I can't play stunning looking games on my new crazy rig" discussion. As said, if we are talking about gameplay, it is all about what sells best to the consumers. And if we are talking about what's going on outside of the games (Steam, UPlay etc...), then it is all about what the consumers tolerate. If back in the day when Valve introduced Steam all (or at least most) consumers would have decided to not use the platform, it would not exist anymore. If people would in general not buy games that requires DRM, or would punish publishers for "bad behaviour" (content gets cut out and shipped as dlc later on for example) by not buying any more of their products, things might change. But assuming that the fault for all bad things to happen is that game studios develop their games for several platforms to reach a broader audience (which is what I would do in their case, too), seems a bit futile to me

This was true when there were direct ports of Xbox V1 games, like TGS, Deus EX without taking the time to bother with a few PC tweaks to make your $3,000.00 PC shine. this does not bother me at all anymore, and again it's only the Xbox i dislike for many other reasons than this.

 

An example of gameplay and content: I have played Amiga and DOS RPG games on my PC VGA and 16 color graphics do not come out looking amazing, except for DosBox and Winuae D3D Filtering to get rid of some of the aliasing on a 1080P TV/Monitor.

 

The worst thing I can think of about Steam and it can be avoided, are the in development games like the Realms of Arcania remake that was garbage and people like me bought it early on not knowing any better. After about a hundred patches i would rather play the original on DosBox.

also love that there is controller support for 99% of games that come out now. Unless you're making a flight sim (or an e-sport game), you don't need all keyboard keys for controls. Controllers are more comfortable to use for longer time, and the camera movement isn't so jerky with analog controls, so I can easily play for 2-3 hours straight without eye fartigue.

I cannot imagine this but its convenient on the couch, I play Flight Sims and the only way to play in my opinion is withe the controllers such as Joystick, Throttle, Rudder Pedals and whatever you can get to for buttons I use a couple of button devices that you can print labels for, and a new throttle for more buttons. You should read the manual for Cliff of Dover, you cannot get at every button it needs extra controllers, hunting on the keyboard and you lose the fight. I also have Track IR v4 which is essential for Flight Sims

 

-this may sound a bit wierd but I bought a lemonade with raspberry and I swear there was piss in it, I feel sick as a dog, like I was just dropped in a toxic dump and was submerged in it - this is normal for me so don't pay any attention to that.

 

anyway where was I:

 

And this has actually happened. Assassin's Creed 2 had a terrible "always online" DRM, which caused the game to be a huge flop on PC, while it selled quite well on consoles. It was also, why I decided to play it on the PlayStation rather than the PC. The Amazon reviews were 1-Star only, because of the DRM and a short time later the DRM was patched. It was not removed, but at least you did not have to be online all the time.

Yeah I have it and 3 and all the packs with it so this is bad news.

Only 3 hours? I had sessions 24 hours long and 12 hours are still okay if i find the time. I do not own a console. But if i had one, i would attach keyboard and mouse to it. I would certainly not be able to have fun with the Darkmod or Starcraft with a console-style controller. Of course it is also a matter of taste and whether games are optimized for a limited number of keys or less-precise pointing devices. But RTS and first person 3D games seem to be a natural keyboard and mouse territory (at least without VR goggles).

Exactly! does any one know of the older pro gamer called Fatal1iy or whatever it was, can you imagine the best console joypad player could beat this guy in any FPS, I would like to bet on that.

It strongly depends on what the game is designed for. Most games designe for consoles are also designed for controler controls. Replacing them with mouse and keyboard can lead to a worse gaming experience. As an example I played "Ocarina of Time" via emulator with mouse and keyboard, but I had to quit at some point as I could not solve a couple of puzzles that required to point your shield in a certain direction, because the keyboard only knows "hit button", and has no gradual proceeding as the analog stick has. Another example would be Dark Souls, which is basically unplayable with mouse and keyboard (at least from what I have heard).

For me, I prefer controler for 3rd person games and platformers, while I prefer mouse and keyboard for 1st person (be it shooter or RPG) and RTS.

I remember in say 2013 I was trying yo play Gothic 1 with the usual system for keyboard and mouse and I had to stop because the controls were unimaginable. Like Thief TDP and its "W" Run and "S" walk I had to reconfigure that the last time i played.

VR doesn't fix anything. It makes people sick, and PR-wise we're getting back to the gamer-nerds-with-weird-gadgets era. Until they manage to get something like hololens fully working with games, we're going nowhere. Right now it's just successful marketing for a niche audience.

I am going on 50 in November and I still look like I am 20 sometimes - Yeah, but I will be 60 before I put on VR Goggles until you can fly a WWII aircraft with VR cockpit (all controls are used by your hands that look like hands and arms Flaps up/down click the button that was really therein the day) and the FPS would never work with a modern Flight Sim for a long time. Track IR is good for this and racing and Arma's games. Cassette to Cd / VHS to DVD / DVD to Blu Ray - same thing here.

 

VR doesn't fix anything. It makes people sick, and PR-wise we're getting back to the gamer-nerds-with-weird-gadgets era. Until they manage to get something like hololens fully working with games, we're going nowhere. Right now it's just successful marketing for a niche audience.

This would literally F-someone up that has Motion Sickness or Seizures, I hope they really warn guys with these illnesses, or they may feel as sick as me right now, and or end up in a hospital.

 

Players did rant against consoles because they limited indirectly what games looked like on PC too. Tech specs did matter a lot. Well they do not anymore because consoles are just specialized PCs without the legacy stuff now.

And mods on consoles are a thing now. Guess why they where not before.

Emulation is one of the greatest things I found back in 2006, MAME, WinUae, DOSBox, CCS64, zsnes, ePSXe 200 and the list goes on, the only problems are legality issues.

 

But it you want you can find a game out there maybe Sonic maybe Pacman, and the emulators are free.


Edited by bobrpggamer, 29 August 2017 - 09:21 AM.





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