PSA: Watch out for (A.K.A avoid) Windows 10 S.

[kano]

The war on general purpose computing is continuing. For the past thirty years, you have been free to buy any computer and then run whatever software you like on it. Windows 10 S is changing this. With Windows 10 S, consumers will only be allowed to run applications from the Microsoft store. The Dark Mod? Forget about it. Your favorite retro games or other programs? Kiss them goodbye, too!

 

Microsoft are being sneaky about this, as usual. Manufacturers are starting to sell kit pre-loaded with Windows 10 S, which sounds an aweful lot like Windows 10, if you are an average Joe. And if you are an average Joe, you probably also won't see the jail bars coming down. By this, I mean that you will purchase the "Windows computer", thinking that it will run all of your favorite programs as normal. But then you will find out that this is not the case.

 

Fear not, for now. Microsoft is allowing you to convert from Windows 10 S (jail edition) to Windows 10 Pro, for free, up until the end of the year. At that point though, it will cost $50 to escape the Microsoft Jail, and to obtain the freedoms you've enjoyed with the personal computer for the past thirty years, out of the box.

 

So, just avoid anything that says Windows 10 S. The sooner this quest to convert PCs into glorified game consoles with extra privacy invading goodness as icing on the cake collapses, the better off we will all be. I don't have to tell you that if we lived in a world of Windows 10 S, something like TDM would have probably never been created.

 

TLDR: Windows 10 S is a crippleware version of Windows which won't let you run any program you wish, without upgrading. Upgrading is free now, but will cost $50 starting next year.

Edited July 23, 2017 by kano

[stumpy]

its being aimed at schools, safe system to be used in schools, for kids to learn the basics of computing minus the hacking, ddos, malware, viruses. Expect this system to be targeted by hackers all over the world.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3194280/windows/windows-10-s-faq-everything-you-need-to-know-about-microsofts-streamlined-operating-system.html

Edited July 23, 2017 by stumpy

[Anderson]

While some of all this is valid, Windows 10 S doesn't mean an upgrade from Windows 10 Home Edition to Win 10 S. As I understand Win 10 S is about new devices.

​Moreover if you ever dug around Windows Store you'll see that even for people who buy/use Win 10 S or whatever other variation of Windows 10, it's going to be fairly easy to get TDM through that store. Applying for a free exe. as TDM would be as easy as doing it for Google Play. Very, very accessible and that's their goal at the end of the day. What matters is to see what's it all about as more people come to use it.

Alternative opinion on Windows 10 S:

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Anderson

[kano]

its being aimed at schools, safe system to be used in schools, for kids to learn the basics of computing minus the hacking, ddos, malware, viruses. Expect this system to be targeted by hackers all over the world.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3194280/windows/windows-10-s-faq-everything-you-need-to-know-about-microsofts-streamlined-operating-system.html

I read that S is coming on the new Surface too. That's a $1000 machine, way out of the budget of most education environments.

[kano]

It might be fairly easy for the TDM team to publish a version in the Windows Store, but it will stop any gamers from experimenting with the TDM code and building custom versions of the game to learn, experiment with, or improve.

Edited July 23, 2017 by kano

[Anderson]

Guess we'll wait and see as usual. They'll be more active again this autumn with the Windows 10 Fall Creator's Update.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Anderson

[Melan]

Remember when they let you "upgrade" to Windows 10 for "free"?

 

 

(I doubt it will work exactly like that. This is the scarebait so they can backpedal and sell you on the only-half-as-scary version later. It's bargaining.)

 

[Anderson]

Remember when they let you "upgrade" to Windows 10 for "free"?

 

 

(I doubt it will work exactly like that. This is the scarebait so they can backpedal and sell you on the only-half-as-scary version later. It's bargaining.)

 

 

Let's be honest. They're not that stupid to shoot themselves in the foot.

Lots of people still use Win 7 and they will reserve that privilege of independence no matter what if Win 10 S is as scary as is written. Granted and ​especially​ if they intend to replace Win 10 Home Edition with Win 10 S.

 

I'm amazed they still update Windows 10 Mobile. So there must be some common sense around here.

[AluminumHaste]

God, I would have LOVED this when I worked at the computer lab at the college!

So many viruses, broken installs etc etc.

[Melan]

 

Let's be honest. They're not that stupid to shoot themselves in the foot.

Lots of people still use Win 7 and they will reserve that privilege of independence no matter what if Win 10 S is as scary as is written. Granted and ​especially​ if they intend to replace Win 10 Home Edition with Win 10 S.

 

I'm amazed they still update Windows 10 Mobile. So there must be some common sense around here.

I still use Win7, and will continue to do so as long as possible. Paid for my copy, too. But convenience, laziness and planned obsolescence will win out in the end.

 

Remember when Adobe Acrobat was a great, functional product even in its free version? How about Nero, for burning disks? A lot of software has become less useful, or more invasive over the years. Selling out the customer has turned from an outrage to a business model to as natural as breathing air (and you can't stop breathing air, of course).

 

I am one of the people who liked Microsoft when it was fashionable to bash. They mostly did the right thing, and they mostly sold solid, utilitarian, well-designed products. They were a boring, safe, but reliable company. I believe this is starting to unravel, and the ad-supported business model for Win10 was one of the first major steps in a wrong direction. This seems to be the second. I want an operating system and office suite that does what I tell it to and doesn't snitch on me to advertisers, governments and who knows whom.

 

Also, just look:

 

Microsoft Paint to be killed off after 32 years

Long-standing basic graphics editing program, used throughout childhoods since the 1980s, has been marked for death

Samuel Gibbs

Monday 24 July 2017 13.55 BST First published on Monday 24 July 2017 10.29 BST

Microsoft’s next Windows 10 update, called the Autumn (or Fall in the US) Creators Update, will bring a variety of new features. But one long-standing stalwart of the Windows experience has been put on the chopping block: Microsoft Paint.

First released with the very first version of Windows 1.0 in 1985, Paint in its various guises would be one of the first graphics editors used by many and became a core part of Windows. Starting life as a 1-bit monochrome licensed version of ZSoft’s PC Paintbrush, it wasn’t until Windows 98 that Paint could save in JPEG.

With the Windows 10 Creators Update, released in April, Microsoft introduced the new Paint 3D, which is installed alongside traditional Paint and features 3D image making tools as well as some basic 2D image editing. But it is not an update to original Paint and doesn’t behave like it.

Now Microsoft has announced that, alongside Outlook Express, Reader app and Reading list, Microsoft Paint has been signalled for death having been added to the “features that are removed or deprecated in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update” list.

Falling under the deprecated column for apps that are “not in active development and might be removed in future releases”, Microsoft Paint’s ticket has been called and now it’s only a matter of time before it is removed like your favourite piece of old furniture from your childhood home.

Paint was never one of the most capable apps, and was limited to the bitmap (BMP) and PCX formats until 1998, but if you wanted to scribble something out using your mouse or make a quick cut and paste job, Paint was always there, even on work computers.

The most recent version of Paint for Windows 7 and later was much improved, but still considered feature poor compared to other free alternatives such as the third-party Paint.NET.

When Microsoft Paint will officially be removed from Windows has yet to be confirmed, while a precise date for the release of the Windows 10 Autumn Creators Update is equally up in the air. Whether, like Clippy, Windows users will celebrate or decry Paint’s removal, it will be a moment in the history of Windows as one of its longest-standing apps is put out to pasture.

Now that's evil!

[Anderson]

 

I still use Win7, and will continue to do so as long as possible. Paid for my copy, too. But convenience, laziness and planned obsolescence will win out in the end.

 

Remember when Adobe Acrobat was a great, functional product even in its free version? How about Nero, for burning disks? A lot of software has become less useful, or more invasive over the years. Selling out the customer has turned from an outrage to a business model to as natural as breathing air (and you can't stop breathing air, of course).

 

I am one of the people who liked Microsoft when it was fashionable to bash. They mostly did the right thing, and they mostly sold solid, utilitarian, well-designed products. They were a boring, safe, but reliable company. I believe this is starting to unravel, and the ad-supported business model for Win10 was one of the first major steps in a wrong direction. This seems to be the second. I want an operating system and office suite that does what I tell it to and doesn't snitch on me to advertisers, governments and who knows whom.

 

Also, just look:

Now that's evil!

 

 

Nero is replaced by a capability built-in at least from 7, maybe even Vista to burn a disk, rendering Nero deprecated.

 

The original Paint can still probably be reinstalled as a workaround such as getting Office 2003 or something. I'm still using the old Office 2003 copy for the last decade.

 

We don't know what the future holds and of course I'd like the newest Word version to be free and packaged with Windows as a service in the ideal scenario but we'll see what happens I guess.

If there's too many mistakes made on behalf of Microsoft, they'll just lose customers.

 

I suggest you look at the statistics for the purpose of cheering you up in relation to how many people made the decision to go to Win 10 in reality!

 

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide#monthly-201506-201701

 

​Sure, in the long run Microsoft has an advantage in relation to the unaware non tech savvy user. But there will be lots of people who won't be afraid to set precedents in the US and overturn some of Microsoft's decisions in court. Also let's not forget about Chromebook. Only the most responsive and competitive company will win in the end. Today it's too easy to adapt these systems for common sense the of every user. Or just reinstall Win XP/7. And there's nothing they can do about it if they abuse their position.

​That is, if they still care to get into the Phone market for example. They have been rational and sound in their decisions to my knowledge. Lumias is at least as good as the old Nokias as far the brand and their physical resilience goes. Even if it failed financially.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Anderson

[Bikerdude]

I already have my copy of Win10 enterprise sitting quietly on the shelf, the idea being when I have to go down the W1o route -

• I can disable all the telemetry
• Will have full control of windows update - but I think even the pro version can be tweaked via Group-policy now (https://techgage.com/article/taking-back-control-of-windows-10-updates/)
• wont have any useless crap added (game mode, creators update, etc) have features disabled or loose support all-together (as per Win10s and WInRT)

Edited July 24, 2017 by Bikerdude

[Sotha]

Drat! I think I did have one of those "get out of Microsoft Jail free" cards lying around here somewhere....

 

I dunno if it is gonna be a problem for real. If the product is utter crap, people will bash it and will want their money back. In the era of internet, the word will circle around. People will avoid the product, which really matters for the company.

[Bikerdude]

If the product is utter crap, people will bash it and will want their money back. In the era of internet, the word will circle around. People will avoid the product, which really matters for the company.

I sincerely hope that happens, and certainly before the dame thing becomes a service.

 

On that day I along with I imagine lots of others will migrate to Linux, assuming there's no viable windows alternative at that time. I hope by then there will be a flavour of linux thats friendly to the end user (eg dosent require said user to compile everything they want to run)

[AluminumHaste]

I really don't get why you guys are so mad about Windows S. No home user should be using it or buying it, it's made for organizations and schools and libraries etc.

A normal user would not use this.

[Bikerdude]

I really don't get why you guys are so mad about Windows S.

Because like most things, this is just the beginning of a slippery slope...

[Atomica]

Because like most things, this is just the beginning of a slippery slope...

Microsoft can't and won't kill off the ability to run Win32 applications, at least not for a LONG time. They can't - it's the primary reason for using Windows after all, the applications. The store is wildly unpopular and restricting it to solely Store apps is going to piss off a lot of people who aren't aware of what Win 10 S actually is. I know a bunch of open source applications like Paint .NET, Kodi and Inkscape have now got Store versions so there's some capability for having a semi-useful experience with just Store apps, but it's still way too limiting no matter what Microsoft might say. So people who buy these cheap laptops with Win 10 S might either return them, or buy the upgrade to Pro if they want to keep the laptop.

 

People have said the sky is falling with regards to Microsoft and Windows for YEARS and proclaim a mass migration to Linux, and yet time keeps on moving and people continue to use Windows everywhere, with Linux distros having basically stalled in desktop share. I say this as someone who has a certain affection for Linux, because of its control and freedom. But I can't ignore the fact that people get emotional over this stuff and worry too much and that clouds their judgement.

 

As for Paint being killed off, that was clear the moment Microsoft put Paint 3D front and center in the Windows 10 Creators Update. In any case, classic Paint is deprecated, not removed. It will be removed eventually, but you know what? Someone will create an installer for it if the new paint doesn't satisfy your requirements, just like people made installers for the old calculator and media center apps that still work in Windows 10. Windows is too widespread for anything to be killed off permanently - you just need to know how to Google.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Atomica

[Melan]

On the lighter side--

 

 

"Bill Gates climbs through my window and places MSPaint in the Recycle Bin on my five-years-old laptop running original and not at all stolen Win 7, while I sleep peacefully", by Noemi Mondik."

[Anderson]

Bill Gates is in charge of MS even while not being CEO.

[Melan]

More seriously, I am sceptical about the market fixing things, or the customers reacting by moving on to a different product. That's Economics 101, but the real world is full of market failures, oligopolies and a whole lot of inertia. Not to mention tremendous sunk costs; private individuals and firms have invested so much effort into maintaining and being up to date on MS-based systems that it would be a herculean task to switch to an alternative, even if it existed. Most customers are either a captive audience or do not care. Other solutions are not really options for laymen. Linux has remained in the nerd ghetto (I have been hearing of the miraculous build that will take over the world since 1997), while Apple and especially Google are even more scary than MS's latest moves.

 

And yeah, some of it will be overturned by governments and various customer protection outfits, maybe a little bit by word of mouth and the markets, too. But some of it will stick. As I see it, we are not facing some kind of monstrous, totalitarian takeover yet, but we are in a tug of war where we, private individuals are slowly but surely slipping. Business models and conduct which would have been unacceptable ten years ago are now commonplace. There is a disturbing amount of collusion between large-scale corporate interests and governments to pressure you into more and more monitored and restricted ways of using computers and the Internet. Microsoft wants you to switch to a business model that sells out your data to the highest bidder, and where you can't install programs to your heart's content. Google wants to know just a little bit too much about you. Facebook's CEO - who is also considering running for CEO of the USA - says privacy is "no longer a social norm". This is today (actually, that last one is 2010).

 

Powerful political lobbies want to restrict your freedom to speak, act and decide in ways that are counter to their interests, and they will use their leverage with big business to harm dissenters in ways that would be illegal in political life. Open censorship through corporate means is becoming de facto everyday practice. All in the name of decency, safety, and a smooth user experience. After all, bad things only happen to bad people. Like Hitler and pewdiepie and that guy who said something bad about the political mainstream, or about more and more surveillance in our lives. Surely, he was some paranoid sicko. It is a good thing he was de-platformed, his credit line got cancelled, and he was fired from his job after an Internet shitstorm. This is tomorrow. Or was that yesterday?

 

A comfortable straightjacket is still a straightjacket. We are losing customer rights, and ultimately freedoms we had once taken as inalienable. Because we accept "being protected" from hackers, terrorists and bad influences. That's my concern.

[Anderson]

Totally valid concern Melan. Nobody here will be contesting that.

 

The idea is that for some of us who were not born in democractic countries, phone tapping, opression, jail time for free speech has always been the norm, so the occasional misdemeanor by Microsoft or Google pales in comparisson to the desire of the Russian Government to make a national OS and force everyone to use it. To have every major corporation allow the Russian gov to store personal data of all citizens on Russian servers for easy access of the FSB.

 

IMHO, if you take the large picture, the bigger worry is that Google for example is happy to cooperate with China to create a customized and censored search engine. On the big scale, having limited access to information and build an internet Chinese Great Wall is worse than just the occasional privacy surveillance breach. Why? Because tomorrow or the other day after the US will be ran by Democrats whether in Congress or in the White House. No American party has yet managed to win the race more than 2 times consecutively.

 

To me things are really clear in this line of thought. We could spend our time ​much more usefully protecting political victims in dictatorships rather than nitpick over what's going on with corporations who just pursue their own business interests.​ After all, can we argue that if Microsoft would have been harshly punished for pushing Internet Explorer over Netscape preinstalled in the OS, would Windows be today as used as it is today? Let's be honest, in 2'nd and 3'rd world countries hardly anyone uses a licensed Windows copy. This went in an uncontrollable and very favorable direction to advance people's knowledge and limits. It broke many boundries and in perspective it will unfasten a lot of problems with economic activity all over the world. This progress is far more significant than having one corporation lose over the other for technical, even if bad faith competition practices persist.
​It is no excuse for monopolistic behaviors, but western democracies have a strong system of checks and balances that work very well in comparison to dictatorships in Putin's Russia, Lukashenko's Belarus, Castro's Cuba, North Korea and communist China.
​This is my subjective opinion, but as long as we have at least one dictatorship in this world, it's kinda weird to talk about corporations bringing evil when clearly they are at least mildly in check, whereas in dictatorships all red lines are crossed every day, all day, all night. No amount of armies of attorneys can do nothing to and independent and impartial Judge of Prosecutor. That's what matters if everyone does their job - which they do in countries better than mine.
​If you allow another digression - that's why Victor Bout, the hero of the famous movie "Lord of War" is now in a US jail, maybe in some way due to Amnesty International's promotion of the movie, promotion of the issue and rising public awareness. Who knows? BTW weird situation when the depressing movie ending actually got overturned in the real world. To me that's why the Edward Snowden motion picture glorification by Oliver Stone is bs. If Bout had the chance he'd be in for asylum in Russia exactly as Snowden.

 

For a reminiscence on what I'm talking about to bring us up to speed:

Edited July 25, 2017 by Anderson

[chakkman]

The real question is, why do forums have a like button, when there is no unlike button?

[Anderson]

The real question is, why do forums have a like button, when there is no unlike button?

 

Because they have a positive outlook on life.

[Melan]

Depends on the forum, really. Some have positive and negative ratings, and then there is this:

 

[Destined]

The real question is, why do forums have a like button, when there is no unlike button?

Maybe to further discussions? That way you can easily say, "I agree", but have to actually write, if you disagree, which may either prompt you to elaborate on your own or prompt others to ask why you disagree. A dislike button might simply be overlooked.