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A proposed change to mission names


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#1 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 07:30 AM

When you download missions they are listed such as:

 

A House of Locked Secrets

A Matter of Hours

Requiem

The Bakery Job

The Rift

 

When you view them in the browser they are listed like:

 

Bakery Job, The

House of Locked Secrets, A

Matter of Hours, A

Requiem

Rift, The

 

Vote Here: http://www.strawpoll.me/13575172

 

I have a fix to make them appear in the mission browser, the same as they are in the mission downloader.

 

But this is not a bug it's more of a preference, so I would like to gauge people's opinions on this. Below is a screenshot of the 'new' mission browser:

 

sXMX0jH.png

 

Personally I like it as it is more consistent and just looks nicer.

 

(Concerning this bug report)

 

Edit: I've created a Strawpoll http://www.strawpoll.me/13575172

 

So we have four possible options on the poll:

 

Sort by (Manor, A) display as (A Manor)

 

This stops the problem of having a massive list of "A" names while making the final list look nicer (IMO). I prefer "A Dark Night" to "Dark Night, A"

 

Sort by (A Manor) display as (A Manor) [current download list]

 

Looks nice (IMO) but has the problem of a massive A list

 

Sort by (Manor, A) display as (Manor, A) [current mission list]

 

Avoids the list of A names but looks a bit worse (IMO)

 

Sort by (A Manor) display as (Manor, A)

 

Don't see any point to this one, just added it for completeness


Edited by AlexDiru, 30 July 2017 - 08:52 AM.

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#2 Springheel

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:34 AM

We changed the menu list specifically to avoid a massive list of "A" names.  I don't know why it was never done for the download list, but the better solution would be to change that it ignores the "A" as well.



#3 nbohr1more

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:43 AM

I think the display should be fixed:

 

"A Matter of Hours" vs "Matter of Hours, A"

 

but the sort should ignore "A" and "The"

 

The Bakery Job

A Matter of Hours

 

The current situation was an attempt to fix the latter which caused the former.


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#4 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:44 AM

That's actually a smart idea, I have a new poll with both the (new) options 

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/13575172


Edited by AlexDiru, 30 July 2017 - 08:47 AM.


#5 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:48 AM

Sorry for bump but I changed it to a third poll with all the combinations

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/13575172



#6 Springheel

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:55 AM

but the sort should ignore "A" and "The"

 

The Bakery Job

A Matter of Hours

 

 

 

That would also be a good solution.  Keep the name correct, but put in alpha order ignoring the "a/the".  I think I would vote for that one.



#7 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:58 AM

 

That would also be a good solution.  Keep the name correct, but put in alpha order ignoring the "a/the".  I think I would vote for that one.

 

Top option in the poll :)



#8 wesp5

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:13 AM

I have a fix to make them appear in the mission browser, the same as they are in the mission downloader.

I'm all for it and not only because I was the guy doing the bug report in the first place ;)! Can your fix be added to TDM without a recompilation of the game? Then I would like to include it into my mission names patch, see below! This already fixes a lot of other issues, like campaign mission not being named correctly, until the main mod gets patched...

 

http://www.moddb.com...-missions-patch



#9 Springheel

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:15 AM

like campaign mission not being named correctly,

 

 

What is incorrect about the campaign mission names?



#10 wesp5

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:16 AM

I think the display should be fixed:

 

"A Matter of Hours" vs "Matter of Hours, A"

 

but the sort should ignore "A" and "The"

 

The Bakery Job

A Matter of Hours

Hm, but this would make it even harder to find missions when you don't know the exact name. How is this done elsewhere in games or other media? I have the impressin "A" and "The" are used for sorting and if there are many of names starting with it, so what?



#11 wesp5

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:18 AM

 

What is incorrect about the campaign mission names?

A lot of campaign, or rather same protagonist, missions start with the series name on the web page, but have this name not included in the internal list so after downloading any connection gets lost...


Edited by wesp5, 30 July 2017 - 09:18 AM.


#12 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:35 AM

Can your fix be added to TDM without a recompilation of the game? 

 

Needs a recompilation

 

 

find missions when you don't know the exact name

 

Makes no difference, for example you may be looking for "Bakery Job" but not find it as it is sorted under "The Bakery Job"

 

Patch is here to anyone with commit access, downloads and missions are sorted without "The" and "A" but displayed with them on the left

 

https://www.mediafir...idaoe4yv513iyr7


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#13 grayman

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:02 AM

Please don't anyone commit these changes until the discussion decides that's what needs to be done.



#14 Springheel

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:12 AM

Cool, but if you're going to have a vote, probably better to wait longer than 1 hour for people to respond.... :P



#15 chakkman

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:15 AM

It always annoyed me that, one time, it's sorted by the "A" or "The", and another time it's sorted by the following word's first letter. I'd really be happy about some consistency in that regard, however it looks like.


Edited by chakkman, 30 July 2017 - 10:15 AM.


#16 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:27 AM

Cool, but if you're going to have a vote, probably better to wait longer than 1 hour for people to respond.... :P

 

Needed to do it while it was on my mind, otherwise I'd forget what needed to be changed in the files - the hardest bit was finding where things go :P


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#17 wesp5

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:46 AM

Makes no difference, for example you may be looking for "Bakery Job" but not find it as it is sorted under "The Bakery Job"

I would still guess this will confuse new players until they notice that "a" and "the" is not used for sorting...



#18 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:53 AM

I would still guess this will confuse new players until they notice that "a" and "the" is not used for sorting...

 

It's pretty standard for text lists to be sorted without accounting for them though

 

Edit: Hypothetical example: Say 80% of the missions started with "The", sorting by "The" would be quite pointless.

 

If I could vaguely remember a mission and I want to find it, I wouldn't also want to have to factor in that it may be prefixed by "The" as then I have to search in two places on the mission list


Edited by AlexDiru, 30 July 2017 - 12:32 PM.

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#19 wesp5

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 04:08 PM

 

Hypothetical example: Say 80% of the missions started with "The", sorting by "The" would be quite pointless.

It's not that bad, there are only 4 missions starting with "A" and 14 starting with "The", not counting the offical missions Also after "The" missions are still sorted alphabetically too, so it's easy to find one you are looking for. I don't remember any lists that mix up showing and sorting of names like you are proposing...



#20 teh_saccade

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:09 PM

So - when anyone else suggests this change, it's too much hassle.

A guy comes in and waves a pFD and suddenly it's a good idea..?

 

 

The word sycophant is ringing in my ears.



#21 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:38 PM

So - when anyone else suggests this change, it's too much hassle.

A guy comes in and waves a pFD and suddenly it's a good idea..?

 

 

The word sycophant is ringing in my ears.

 

PhD*

 

I'm literally picking off the easiest bugs on the list to get used to the code, no need to be a dick about it


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#22 Springheel

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:43 PM

It's not that bad, there are only 4 missions starting with "A"

 

 

I find this very hard to believe, considering the fact that I've made 4 missions myself, all of which start with "A".

 

So - when anyone else suggests this change, it's too much hassle.

 

 

When did anyone say it was too much hassle?  Things get done when 1) there is a general consensus that something needs to change and 2) someone volunteers to do the work.



#23 teh_saccade

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:51 PM

I know it's a pFD - I've got one.

Don't take it personally - take it seriously.
I'm digging at the others here, Alex, not you - please relax.

I believe, Springheel, that this subject has been raised a few times in the past... 18 months(?) and it was always dismissed for one reason or another.

Reckon the last time was in one of the newbie threads, someone was talking about the naming convention for FM's, discussing special characters, asking why "campaigns" weren't in order, due to name, this kind of thing - and the response was the typical "reasons".

"general consensus" - keep swatting flies and it'll be a smaller and smaller circle around this flame.
"when someone volunteers to do the work" - :)

Perhaps that's why organising the naming for FM's in d/l list has been dismissed out of hand in the past...

 

// no bother - i've simply got a chip on my shoulder about a few things this week.


Edited by teh_saccade, 30 July 2017 - 06:52 PM.


#24 AlexDiru

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:59 PM

I thought you were calling me a sycophant...

 

My logic to see where you were coming from: new guy comes along, attempts to change the fundamentals, polls community

 

But I saw it listed on the tracker, I did it, then was told it was subjective and should ask people's opinions first by making a thread here. Hence here we are.

 

Also your mention of flies made me shudder... A fly has laid maggots under my oven so I've been dealing with that tonight... 2 weeks until I move out!



#25 Springheel

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 07:00 PM

I believe, Springheel, that this subject has been raised a few times in the past... 18 months(?) and it was always dismissed for one reason or another. Reckon the last time was in one of the newbie threads, someone was talking about the naming convention for FM's, discussing special characters, asking why "campaigns" weren't in order, due to name, this kind of thing - and the response was the typical "reasons".

 

 

Yes, a couple people have complained about the way missions are named, but that's a different topic.  We're talking about what order to put missions in, which can be done without renaming them.  And since there was already an open bugtracker entry for this very thing, it doesn't make a lot of sense to claim it was "dismissed".






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