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#1 Momoderator

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 02:40 AM

Hello everybody! My name is Momo The Momoderator, and I'd like to help out with 3D stuff. I love the Thief series and The Dark Mod, and it would be a honour to contribute. Here's some of my past work(in chronological order):

 

 

 

https://skfb.ly/6oO6r

 

https://skfb.ly/67MJO

 

https://skfb.ly/6rAFT

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=934510200

 

https://skfb.ly/68Txx

 

https://skfb.ly/6sJUB

 

 

 

Here are some more images:

game_ready_medieval_warhammer_3d_model_c

 

unknown.png

 

unknown.png

 

unknown.png

 

image.png

 

I mainly use Blender for the modeling, and GIMP for texture work. Currently, I'm learning to use the Substance Painter and Designer tools.


Edited by Momoderator, 02 August 2017 - 03:13 AM.

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#2 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:09 AM

Hi and welcome to the forums! If you use 3dsmax Blender, you may export your models in .ase format (remember to change it from .ASE to .ase, TDM doesn't like caps lock). You can also use .lwo with certain exporter plugins (I use 3dsmax, but other forum members should be able to help).

 

Also keep in mind that the triangle count should be relatively low for TDM models, so stuff like tiny beveled edges should rather be baked to textures. Any low poly tricks you know will be more than welcome in that regard. If you need detailed instructions on how to export and test static meshes in TDM, either use TDM Wiki or let us now here, if you encounter any problems.


Edited by Judith, 02 August 2017 - 03:20 AM.

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#3 Momoderator

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:23 AM

Hi and welcome to the forums! If you use 3dsmax, you'll need to export your models in .ase format (remember to change it from .ASE to .ase, TDM doesn't like caps lock). Also keep in mind that the triangle count should be relatively low for TDM models, so stuff like tiny beveled edges should rather be baked to textures. Any low poly tricks you know will be more than welcome in that regard. If you need detailed instructions on how to export and test static meshes in TDM, either use TDM Wiki or let us now here, if you encounter any problems.

I actually use Blender most of the time, so I'm going to have to find me an .ase exporter.

I'll ready up a test map and some models to get familiar with the engine.


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#4 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:31 AM

Sorry, I missed that. TDM uses either .ase or .lwo, I think there are proper Blender exporters for that. .lwo tends to be a little bit slimmer than .ase in terms of weight.


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#5 Momoderator

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 06:57 AM

Okay, I managed to set up a basic test map and put some of my crate models in (the ones from above). Unfortunately, even after a few hours of reading through the wiki, I still have no idea how and where to put all my model textures...

 

The models (crate1, crate2 and crate3) I put in models\containers

I've got a diffuse map, a normal map and a specular map, which I put in my models\darkmod\props\textures

Then I the mtrs made according to the guide on the wiki, named them tdm_model_crate(1, 2 and 3 respectively)_wood and put them in my materials folder.

And the models still come up with the nasty SHADER NOT FOUND texture.

 

Am I missing anything?


Edited by Momoderator, 02 August 2017 - 07:55 AM.

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#6 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:10 AM

This will get you up to speed when it comes to configuration. It's slightly outdated (e.g. you can alt-tab in full screen now), but it will do.

 

 

The actual workflow depends on chosen format. I use 3dsmax and .ase, so I can help you with that, .lwo requires a bit different approach, AFAIK.


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#7 Momoderator

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:35 AM

The actual workflow depends on chosen format. I use 3dsmax and .ase, so I can help you with that, .lwo requires a bit different approach, AFAIK.

I am using .ase, too.


Edited by Momoderator, 02 August 2017 - 07:36 AM.

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#8 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:55 AM

You need to export your .ase model with a single texture applied. Then open the .ase file in the notepad. Go to the *MAP_DIFFUSE section. Paste your material path in the BITMAP section, but use //base/ prefix, e.g. //base/textures/etc.


Edited by Judith, 02 August 2017 - 07:56 AM.

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#9 RPGista

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:35 AM

Indeed, like judith pointed out, it is better in the long run to create and work within your own mission folder (what we call a "project"), as it is much easier to be organized and play test features without mixing with other projects you might be experimenting with. Follow the video above for that. You might also want to check out the starter map pack page in the wiki, as it provides a map with all the basics you would need in your map, such as items, different lights, readables, etc. Though this is not needed for small test maps, you might be more confortable editing inside it instead of creating every file and folder from scratch (you would just copy the pk4 to your fms folder, install the mission in game, point dark radiant to it, as in the above video, and start editing from there). The dmap process for this map can be rather lenghty though, so its your choice. You can also start with the A-Z tutorial, also in the wiki, that covers all you need to know in order to create maps from scratch. This is important because modelers need to familiarize themselves with mapping, since testing the models in game effectively will require knowing how to place lights, how to texture the surroundings correctly, etc. That said, getting a no draw model can mean different things. There could be a typo in your material paths, or your ase "bitmap" path (that points to the material). You could be missing an editor texture, used by dark radiant to texture the model inside the editor. I would revise all the paths inside the ase and then the material file, see if evertyhing checks out. Remember to place all your folders inside your project folder, and point DR to it, so it knows where to look for them. You can unpack the tdm files to see other material files. Copy one that has what you need, and change the name and the paths to suit your model, using a previous example is the easiest way to do this.

I have some models in pk4 that you could use as examples, and an exporter that actually works with the latest blender version, let me know if you need them.

Ps: Pretty neat modeling, I specially like the careful texturing that brings them to life. Welcome to TDM.

Edited by RPGista, 02 August 2017 - 09:43 AM.

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#10 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:06 AM

As for testing your model and textures:

 

1) Use .tga textures for your material, so you can update and preview them instantly. You can work on Gimp files and use Export shortcut repeatedly (Ctrl+E). If you're working with layers, Gimp will export it as RGBA image, but don't worry about it now, you can save it as flattened image later.

 

2) When you update your texture(s), use reloadimages command. You can type it in console or better, bind to a key of your choice. Create a text file called autocommands.cfg in your root TDM folder and paste this command:

 

bind "DefineYourKeyHere" "reloadimages"

 

3) Every time you change something in material definition, use reloaddecls command to refresh material declarations. You can bind it to a key too.

 

4) Some changes in material definition won't be reflected right away, like noshadows keyword for example. If reloaddecls doesn't help, check vid_restart command, or reload your map.

 

5) In some instances even that won't help, like when you overwrite your .ase model with newer version. Use reloadengine command, or exit the game and run it again. (There's an exit command which is faster to type than navigating through the menus tbh)


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#11 Obsttorte

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:26 AM

The problems might also be the material files. Can you post them here?


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
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#12 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:50 AM

To avoid problems, you can use simple material definition for now: just _d, _n, and _s textures.

 

http://wiki.thedarkm...le#Full_example

 

Btw. you don't need a separate _ed texture nowadays, just paste the path to your diffuse.

 

Also, it's best to use software like Notepad++ for editing material files. Not only does it inform you about e.g. open brackets, but it also contains line numbers, which is useful because in-game console will output line numbers in its error messages to help you debug.


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#13 Momoderator

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:54 PM

I seem to be getting a lot of these errors and my model appears pitch black:

1xeskRW.png

 

newHLlG.png


Edited by Momoderator, 02 August 2017 - 01:06 PM.


#14 Momoderator

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:57 PM

The problems might also be the material files. Can you post them here?

 

https://pastebin.com/CAJ46xjN

 

Just to clarify, I made a folder inside fms/ and put all the material, model, etc folders there.

 

 

Also, it's best to use software like Notepad++ for editing material files. Not only does it inform you about e.g. open brackets, but it also contains line numbers, which is useful because in-game console will output line numbers in its error messages to help you debug.

Yeah, I use Notepad++ all the time.

 

 

I'd also like to apologize for all these problems I'm having, but jeez, it's a pretty convoluted process...


Edited by Momoderator, 02 August 2017 - 01:08 PM.


#15 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 01:42 PM

It is at first, it's much faster once you get used to proper workflow. The material looks fine, although you have the same material path and diffuse texture path. I'd make some prefix for diffuse, just to be on the safe side. Also, did you export the .ase with texture applied, and from an empty scene? .ase format saves all the materials you have in your scene, in the model file, so that might be the problem as well. When you open the .ase file, you should have material count 1 and material 0 as the only material.


Edited by Judith, 02 August 2017 - 01:43 PM.


#16 Judith

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 01:59 PM

Since I'm going on holiday and I won't be able to help you much for next week or so, here's my example of a model, a wooden panel:

 

1) I have my main mission directory in fms folder called "do", as for mission initials. Since I want to have all my models in a separate foklder structure, but quickly accessible from the model browser, I put them in fms/do/models/do folder. Only the last "do" folder shows up in the browser.

 

2) My textures for the models are in fms/do/textures/do/mesh folder; my material file is fms/do/materials/meshes.mtr

 

3) My material definition looks like this:

textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01
{
   
    // tile, carpet, dirt, gravle, grass, rock, twigs, foliage, sand, mud, brokeglass, snow, ice, squeakboard,
    // puddle, moss, cloth, ceramic, slate, straw, armor_leath, armor_chain, armor_plate, climbable, paper, hardwood

    surftype15
    description wood
		
    qer_editorimage		textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_d
    bumpmap			textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_n
    diffusemap       		textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_d
    specularmap			textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_s
 
        // TDM Ambient Method Related
        {
                if (global5 == 1)
                blend add
                map                   textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_d
                scale                  1, 1
                red                     global2
                green                  global3
                blue                    global4
        }
}

The material path is "virtual", but it mimics the texture folder structure to make things more simple. (It's not always this way, e.g. with light shaders, but more on that some other time). Also, I skipped the frob stage since this mesh won't ever be frobbed.

 

4) My .ase model looks like that when opened in Notepad:

*3DSMAX_ASCIIEXPORT	200
*COMMENT "AsciiExport Version  2,00 - Fri Apr 21 17:29:10 2017"
*SCENE {
	*SCENE_FILENAME ""
	*SCENE_FIRSTFRAME 0
	*SCENE_LASTFRAME 100
	*SCENE_FRAMESPEED 30
	*SCENE_TICKSPERFRAME 160
	*SCENE_BACKGROUND_STATIC 0.0000	0.0000	0.0000
	*SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0000	0.0000	0.0000
}
*MATERIAL_LIST {
	*MATERIAL_COUNT 1
	*MATERIAL 0 {
		*MATERIAL_NAME "//base/textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01"
		*MATERIAL_CLASS "Standard"
		*MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.5882	0.5882	0.5882
		*MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.5882	0.5882	0.5882
		*MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.9000	0.9000	0.9000
		*MATERIAL_SHINE 0.1000
		*MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0000
		*MATERIAL_SHADING Blinn
		*MATERIAL_XP_FALLOFF 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_SELFILLUM 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_FALLOFF In
		*MATERIAL_XP_TYPE Filter
		*MAP_DIFFUSE {
			*MAP_NAME "Map #5"
			*MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"
			*MAP_SUBNO 1
			*MAP_AMOUNT 1.0000
			*BITMAP "//base/textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01"
			*MAP_TYPE Screen
			*UVW_U_OFFSET 0.0000
			*UVW_V_OFFSET 0.0000
			*UVW_U_TILING 1.0000
			*UVW_V_TILING 1.0000
			*UVW_ANGLE 0.0000
			*UVW_BLUR 1.0000
			*UVW_BLUR_OFFSET 0.0000
			*UVW_NOUSE_AMT 1.0000
			*UVW_NOISE_SIZE 1.0000
			*UVW_NOISE_LEVEL 1
			*UVW_NOISE_PHASE 0.0000
			*BITMAP_FILTER Pyramidal
		}
	}
}

Actually, you don't need that path in material name, this was one of my first models and I didn't know this was unnecessary ;) You can put it in BITMAP section only, and you'll be fine. Hope this helps somehow.


Edited by Judith, 02 August 2017 - 02:00 PM.

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#17 Momoderator

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:27 PM

Since I'm going on holiday and I won't be able to help you much for next week or so, here's my example of a model, a wooden panel:

 

1) I have my main mission directory in fms folder called "do", as for mission initials. Since I want to have all my models in a separate foklder structure, but quickly accessible from the model browser, I put them in fms/do/models/do folder. Only the last "do" folder shows up in the browser.

 

2) My textures for the models are in fms/do/textures/do/mesh folder; my material file is fms/do/materials/meshes.mtr

 

3) My material definition looks like this:

textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01
{
   
    // tile, carpet, dirt, gravle, grass, rock, twigs, foliage, sand, mud, brokeglass, snow, ice, squeakboard,
    // puddle, moss, cloth, ceramic, slate, straw, armor_leath, armor_chain, armor_plate, climbable, paper, hardwood

    surftype15
    description wood
		
    qer_editorimage		textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_d
    bumpmap			textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_n
    diffusemap       		textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_d
    specularmap			textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_s
 
        // TDM Ambient Method Related
        {
                if (global5 == 1)
                blend add
                map                   textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01_d
                scale                  1, 1
                red                     global2
                green                  global3
                blue                    global4
        }
}

The material path is "virtual", but it mimics the texture folder structure to make things more simple. (It's not always this way, e.g. with light shaders, but more on that some other time). Also, I skipped the frob stage since this mesh won't ever be frobbed.

 

4) My .ase model looks like that when opened in Notepad:

*3DSMAX_ASCIIEXPORT	200
*COMMENT "AsciiExport Version  2,00 - Fri Apr 21 17:29:10 2017"
*SCENE {
	*SCENE_FILENAME ""
	*SCENE_FIRSTFRAME 0
	*SCENE_LASTFRAME 100
	*SCENE_FRAMESPEED 30
	*SCENE_TICKSPERFRAME 160
	*SCENE_BACKGROUND_STATIC 0.0000	0.0000	0.0000
	*SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0000	0.0000	0.0000
}
*MATERIAL_LIST {
	*MATERIAL_COUNT 1
	*MATERIAL 0 {
		*MATERIAL_NAME "//base/textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01"
		*MATERIAL_CLASS "Standard"
		*MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.5882	0.5882	0.5882
		*MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.5882	0.5882	0.5882
		*MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.9000	0.9000	0.9000
		*MATERIAL_SHINE 0.1000
		*MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0000
		*MATERIAL_SHADING Blinn
		*MATERIAL_XP_FALLOFF 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_SELFILLUM 0.0000
		*MATERIAL_FALLOFF In
		*MATERIAL_XP_TYPE Filter
		*MAP_DIFFUSE {
			*MAP_NAME "Map #5"
			*MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"
			*MAP_SUBNO 1
			*MAP_AMOUNT 1.0000
			*BITMAP "//base/textures/do/mesh/cor_woodpanel01"
			*MAP_TYPE Screen
			*UVW_U_OFFSET 0.0000
			*UVW_V_OFFSET 0.0000
			*UVW_U_TILING 1.0000
			*UVW_V_TILING 1.0000
			*UVW_ANGLE 0.0000
			*UVW_BLUR 1.0000
			*UVW_BLUR_OFFSET 0.0000
			*UVW_NOUSE_AMT 1.0000
			*UVW_NOISE_SIZE 1.0000
			*UVW_NOISE_LEVEL 1
			*UVW_NOISE_PHASE 0.0000
			*BITMAP_FILTER Pyramidal
		}
	}
}

Actually, you don't need that path in material name, this was one of my first models and I didn't know this was unnecessary ;) You can put it in BITMAP section only, and you'll be fine. Hope this helps somehow.

 

It definitely was extremely helpful, thanks a lot! Now the problem is, the model and textures show inside DarkRadiant, but are still pitch black in game.

 

EDIT: It's actually not even showing the model in-game, just a pitch-black cube.


Edited by Momoderator, 02 August 2017 - 03:44 PM.


#18 Springheel

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 04:54 PM

That error means it can't find your model.  If your model is in your fms folder, then you need to point TDM to that folder.

 

This might help:  https://youtu.be/sz5u398AgP4?t=40s



#19 Judith

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 01:55 AM

He already has setup instructions in previous posts.

 

I suspect it's something with the model itself. Last thing I can do right now is to post my notes for my 3dsmax workflow, maybe you can adapt this to Blender:

 

Spoiler


#20 Momoderator

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 04:01 AM

That error means it can't find your model.  If your model is in your fms folder, then you need to point TDM to that folder.

 

This might help:  https://youtu.be/sz5u398AgP4?t=40s

 

Ah, I somehow had missed the very important step of actually installing my "project". Now after I installed it, the model isn't showing up at all, nor is the console giving any errors about it.

 

 

He already has setup instructions in previous posts.

 

I suspect it's something with the model itself. Last thing I can do right now is to post my notes for my 3dsmax workflow, maybe you can adapt this to Blender:

 

Spoiler

 

I re-exported from an empty scene, double checked all materials, still shows everything fine inside DarkRadiant, but doesn't show anything (not even the black cube) in-game.


Edited by Momoderator, 03 August 2017 - 04:29 AM.


#21 Bikerdude

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 06:49 AM

@Momoderator

 

Drop me a full copy of your FM either here or via PM and I can have a look at it for you.



#22 Momoderator

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 07:10 AM

@Momoderator

 

Drop me a full copy of your FM either here or via PM and I can have a look at it for you.

Sent you a PM.



#23 Springheel

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 08:08 AM

is your mesh made of tris? If your polys are quads, they won't display.

#24 Momoderator

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 08:32 AM

is your mesh made of tris? If your polys are quads, they won't display.

 

The export plugin I'm using triangulates them automatically.



#25 Springheel

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 08:42 AM

Try loading the map with the model, open the console, type "condump log" and then copy and paste log.txt from your darkmod folder here. If it is now finding the model, it's unusual for it to display nothing at all.




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