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Mass Effect: Andromeda is dead


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#26 Springheel

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:42 AM

If it weren't for the massive amount of time invested in your walls of text, I'd suspect you were simply trolling.

 

You start out with claims that any reasonable adult would recognize as inflammatory ("racism is good and proper")  and then attempt to defend them with either broad, unjustified claims about human behaviour: "All heterosexual men feel disgust at homosexual displays"  (citation needed), or walk your claim back so far that you're not even defending the same topic (as if wanting to invest more attention in your children justifies racism, or wanting to be rich is the same as wanting to own slaves).

 

There are so many things wrong with your arguments that it creates a kind of "predator confusion effect"; there are too many targets to even know where to start.
 

I do not care if I offend, I do not care about being unpopular with some people

 

 

Clearly not.  I can't help wondering if that's the point.


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#27 Outlooker

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:39 PM

Different approach, as concise as I can:

 

I feel disgust at this type of people, I do not want them to live near me,  do not want to give them any help,  do not want them near where my children play or go to school, I only want them to be far away forever.

I hate them, because I feel disgust toward them, and I care not in the least what happens to them. I don't want to be forced them into my society, refugees or not.

 

 

Yes, I am a racist, but not of the type you may think. It is not about superficial things like skin color. I greatly welcome Blacks like Thomas Sowell, and I would be most happy if they would be my closest neighbors.

 

 

Springheel:

"All heterosexual men feel disgust at homosexual displays"  (citation needed)

http://www.psypost.o...g-maggots-49217

 


"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato
"When outmatched... cheat." Batman

#28 Taquito.

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:19 PM

Outlooker, your inconsequential rants are derailing a much interesting topic as in why and how EA failed in Andromeda. I would like to read some insight cause I find this particular topic interesting although I'm not familiar with the franchise nor I have played this game before but here are some assumed theories based on what Ive read here so far:

 

- Lack of diversity in the Team?: An all Female Team? No male insight? Was there a focal group created for this particular tittle?

 

- A group of developers riding on the fan base of a well established game and wanted to inject their own ideas, views cause they thought the franchise was solid enough to withstand it?

 

 

 

A very similar issue happened with New Thief and DXHR where developers wanted to inject their own ideas cause they thought the game was going to be a hit beforehand and they wanted to take credit just in case so it was not all adjudicated to the "Old Winning Formula" Created by a previous group of developers? This happens all the time in my line of work and I hate it. Very disrespectful to the Original concept.

 

 

 

I also find the "Ugly" vs "Beautiful" quite interesting. Was all the characters in the game considered Ugly or ordinary looking? Cause if all were ugly or ordinary looking as they say. There was a lack of diversity as well cause beautiful people do exist.


Edited by Taquito., 23 August 2017 - 09:20 PM.

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#29 Destined

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:34 AM

Springheel:

"All heterosexual men feel disgust at homosexual displays"  (citation needed)

http://www.psypost.o...g-maggots-49217

 

“It is difficult to specifically state what this means. It could mean that participants found the images of male same-sex couples kissing to be equally disgusting as the disgusting images. It could mean that they had an anxiety response to the male couples kissing and a disgust response to the disgusting images, but that physiologically, we could not tell the difference between these two emotions.”

“This is a very preliminary investigation of the physiology of sexual prejudice,” Blair said. “The work needs to be replicated with a larger sample and with more indicators of physiological reactivity as well as additional indicators to help decipher what the physiological responses mean. For example, it is difficult to determine whether an elevated salivary alpha-amylase level indicates stress, fear, or anger.”


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#30 Bikerdude

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 05:21 AM

derailing a much interesting topic as in why and how EA failed in Andromeda.

+1


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#31 The Wheezing Geyser

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:42 AM

Hey, Outlooker, you're just a wall of nonsense words, having nothing whatever to do to with TDM.
You have to take care of your shit, man.


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#32 Springheel

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:44 AM


 

Springheel:

"All heterosexual men feel disgust at homosexual displays"  (citation needed)

http://www.psypost.o...g-maggots-49217

 

 

 

Your link is to a study of 120 men, so recent that it is still behind a paywall, so I can't look at the actual data.  However, even the articles reviewing the study include a quote from one of the authors that specifically says that it does NOT establish that the reaction was caused by disgust:  "It could mean that they had an anxiety response to the male couples kissing and a disgust response to the disgusting images...we could not tell the difference between these two emotions.”  The study also noted that the men had a similar reaction, to a lesser degree, to heterosexual PDAs--was that also caused by "disgust"?

 

A tiny sample size and an admission from the study's author that it is "difficult to interpret the finding[s] at this stage" is not especially good evidence that a reaction of "disgust" at homosexuals is "universally so".

 

The fact that we know of societies where homosexual behaviour was perfectly acceptable, like ancient Rome, ("Confining one's sexual activities to women was considered unusual among the Romans") is strong counter-evidence to your claim.


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#33 Outlooker

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:06 PM

(Concise thoughts)

 
I'm especially angry at how "racism" is used as a weapon to end any discourse; those who use that accusation immediately "win" any debate, shame their opposition, frame themselves good, all others evil.
"Racism" is deliberately left ambiguous, not clearly defined, to keep it useful as an universal-use political assassination tool to shut up people at will.
 
 
Example of how I think this works:
 
Consider people ~400 years ago. Church ruled. How? By fear, shame, guilt:
Reality: People instinctively desire sex and masturbation.
Church said you're evil for feeling so, only sinners do, who then go to hell (=eternal torture). (We laugh; people of the past had no other info and were in terror of it!)
People also feared public opinion of this Church-constructed mental trap. They feared social ostracization for being known as people who desire sex. Sex was made a taboo.
A taboo, deliberately set up so as to affect everybody, for everybody desires and likes sex.
EVERYBODY WAS MADE GUILTY.
Telling publicly, or even in private, or even in private thoughts to oneself (thought control of the Church!) the truth was impossible - the Church-constructed fear, shame and guilt made it impossible.
This was a central source of Church RULING POWER - it made everyone belief himself to be evil/sinner secretly inside, and only the Church (directly or indirectly by giving money to it) could offer absolution.
 
Today:
I see the same principle at work:
Everybody knows themselves to be racist, for we favor our own race over a different, all other things equal.
By causing constructed public outrage for admitting this truth a social taboo is installed, so admitting being racist means social ostracization, even the mere public accusation can be used as a weapon
by causing fear, guilt, shame.
EVERYBODY IS MADE GUILTY.
It's used for political  RULING POWER again, in precisely the same way the Church did long ago.
Only by submitting to mass immigration of people we despise we can be "absolved".
 
 
s.jpg
 
The-Sin-of-Racism-1200x675.jpg

Edited by Outlooker, 24 August 2017 - 01:16 PM.

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato
"When outmatched... cheat." Batman

#34 Amadeus

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:09 PM

So, it's crazy that Andromeda isn't going to get any further single player updates...EA sucks, am I right?



#35 Judith

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 02:23 PM

That Kotaku article shows that they made a lot of costly mistakes. Big ambitions, smaller team, lack of precise scope, changing project directors, difficult engine, switching tech during the project, etc., etc. I guess they only shipped it to balance the production cost, so it isn't a total loss. It if was a smaller game, they'd probably cancel it.


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#36 Abusimplea

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:43 PM

No wonder, Andromeda has not been finished in time (it could still get finished however - if they would want to).

 

It is a new team. That equals throwing all the experience of the three predecessors aboard and starting from scratch.

 

They basicly tried to implement No Man's Sky but with lots of deep plot and story on top. They did not know that No Man's Sky would fail (it wasn't announced back then). Mixing procedurally generated worlds with handcrafted assets and plot is possible. Everything generated scales pretty well - everything handcrafted doesn't. They initially did go for a hundred worlds! No way could they have believed to get this done without adding enourmous amounts of artists to their teams. The world might get created and filled with props by a script. But someone still has to add life to it and mke it all be a part of the overall plot and story (scripts seem to suck at animation and lip syncing too).

 

They where on a wishfull schedule and did not had the guts to delay the next phase when it had become clear that predev would not finish in time. They had a really ambitious goal and they knew it. IT projects almost never finish in time. Years of overtime are the standard for big projects like that.

 

 

As a side note: I played Gothic 3. It had similiar problems (massive explosion of world size and extreme underestimation of resulting work increase). They patched it. Community patched it. Was still pretty buggy. But it also was a pretty satisfying experience while playing it - multiple times. So it might still be fixable. Maybe Andromeda will get enjoyable after the community modded the hell out of it...



#37 HMart

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:39 AM

Abusimplea for that to work you need them to release a SDK, and afaik there's no SDK available, with no way to change, implement code, assets and stuff, it will be very hard for anyone to improve the game. 



#38 Abusimplea

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 11:26 AM

Yes, an SDK would really help in that. Gothic had the same problem (but the community actually did fix some bugs without an SDK).
It is so sad, that game developers often would rather see their work die a horrible death than enable the community to fix it. It almost feels like they just decided "Nah, we do not want it to get better. It would just lead to increased profits from the next title and then we would have to think about what to do with all that extra money..."
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#39 cabalistic

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 12:09 PM

Unfortunately, it probably isn't that simple. Source code would only be useful with access to the underlying Frostbite engine, and seeing as EA has exclusive rights to that engine for their development studios, I'm fairly certain they have no interest to make it available to the community.



#40 Judith

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 12:29 PM

Also, games got much more complex, and golden days of big PC-oriented modding communities are gone. It's not like there'd be 10 animation programmers who would magically step in and volunteer to fix facial animations.



#41 Outlooker

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 01:29 PM

 
It seems we can agree on that in the last decade, on average, games became less appealing to us males.
Until about 2008, every year I found a few games I really enjoyed; less so later on.
What happened?
 
1. Left-wing political ideology was shoehorned into games, openly or subtly.
2. Female developers replaced more and more male developers.
 
It seems that games, as just another medium, are sensitive to demographic and political (propaganda) influences.
 
"Strong, empowered" female protagonists suddenly appeared in surprising frequency, even where not believable, like in brutal battle roles
or as middle-age knights.
 
The black phenomenon coincided with the refugee mass immigration and the exact same effect in other media: Movies, TV Series etc. -
suddenly news presenters, movie heroes, and other high-prestige roles in TV series (doctors, policemen, detectives,...) were mostly all
female or black.
It's like as someone tries to influence the audience to become accustomed to black people as high-status, positively-categorized people instead
of mostly primitive, violent and sub-smart refugees, to change people's thinking and feeling (propaganda) - to subdue opposition to
mass immigration by Africans.
 
(Video Games specifically)
Women and men derive pleasure from different content.
Women's instincts are about self-presentation, social manipulation and caring roles. Women hate physical competition.
Women abhor shooters, physical fighting games of all kinds, spatial exploration and games about analyzing building structures,
games like Command&Conquer or Heroes of Might and Magic.
Games women desire are much like the Movies and TV series they desire: Soap operas, romances, and everything about  decoration and
presentation of their own bodies or living spaces (clothing, makeup, interior decoration, singing, dancing).
The only game I can think of that really exploited those female instincts and was hugely successful is The Sims: A room-
decoration and clothing simulator with big social, soap-opera-like romance and social interaction elements - it sold spectacularly, became one of the most
successful videogames ever, and, another anomaly - was mostly played by females, mostly avoided by males. It was so successful that it became the financial
foundation of EA's dominance in the industry for some time.
 
Men's instincts are about competition (physical or cognitive), systems, analyzing them, then competing with others to form a dominance hierarchy, trying to
get at the top and then rule (psychologists have named video games for men "achievement porn").
This happens by exploration, physical fighting, complex construction of systems, outsmarting the opponent (analyzing strategies and tactics),
in vehicle simulators (cars, airplanes), sports games, RPGs, 4X games etc. - the vast majority of women sees no point, receives no pleasure from such
games.
 
There is a correlation of rising numbers of female developers and games becoming more feminine, more disappointing to male players;
and my hypothesis is that there is also a causation.
 
 
The games I enjoyed most in the past-
 
Deus Ex, DMoMM, Dishonored, Thief, Severance Blade of Darkness, CoD Modern Warfare, System Shock, Master of Orion 2, Heroes of Might and Magic III,
Master of Magic, Command and Conquer, Warcraft, The Elder Scrolls, Age of Empires, Baldur's Gate, Doom (for a short time when I was a teenager),
Strike Commander, Drakan: Order of the Flame, Mass Effect 1/2/3 (the earlier ones more than the later ones!), ST Bridge Commander, Far Cry, Crysis 2, No One Lives Forever 1/2
 
and others - were all made by mostly male developers and tickled the male brain's reward center, not that of females, who mostly ignored such games - because they felt no pleasure
or even displeasure playing them.
 
I propose that this is because of the political agendas of feminism, diversity and multiculturalism. You may roll your eyes, but I think that politics
and certain ideologies have crept into games, that being a central cause for them becoming more disappointing to us.
 
It's not that I just get older - I STILL do enjoy the older games, and a few newer ones.
The vast majority of newer games offer great graphics, but gameplay and story elements quickly bore me. ME:A being a prime example.
Social gossip interaction, self-presentation, romance options, gay content, endless discussions of feelings at length put me off;
and exploring, fighting, aggression, systems thinking, competing, having to learn actual gameplay skills instead just being presented with an interactive soap opera  - the male stuff - feels
like being only an aftertought to the developers anymore, something they had to put in but not really cared for, therefore failing to produce enjoyment in the male audience.
 
 
0GRHaBj.jpg
 
star-wars-rey.jpg
 
 
1503608066923.png

Edited by Outlooker, 26 August 2017 - 01:33 PM.

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato
"When outmatched... cheat." Batman

#42 Amadeus

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 01:39 PM

You know, your novels of text are also injecting politics into video games i.e. this one. You are what you are arguing against. Is this your day job or something?


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#43 Abusimplea

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 03:30 PM

Also, games got much more complex, and golden days of big PC-oriented modding communities are gone. It's not like there'd be 10 animation programmers who would magically step in and volunteer to fix facial animations.

Where there  is proper support from the developer, modding prospers. I think, we live in the golden age of game modding today. Look at Bethesda's recent titles to see what i mean. The communities there are enourmous - they even are if you only see half of them because you are only looking on either the Nexus or Steam Workshop.

The tools, the devs use are far more sophisticated and complete today, than what they had to use in the past. That tools are used to make the original game and its official addons. They are already made and polished when the game ships. So they could be made available to the modder communities easily. Bethesda seems to do just that. And they get longer product life and customers' loyality in return.

No, the golden days of PC-oriented modding communities are not gone. They only began some years ago. And they novadays are not PC-exclusive anymore because consoles got more RAM and therefore the mod-worthy games are now available on consoles too...

Also see the Darkmod right here for the benefits of modern engines available for independent and even free game development. The complexity of modern engines serves a purpose. It allows for the creation of virtual spaces that look and act more like what the mapper intended them to look and act like.

 

It seems we can agree on that in the last decade, on average, games became less appealing to us males.

Nope. Today a much greater part of the male population plays computer games than 10 years ago. So obviously games have become more appealing to males.

 

Also, as we live in a capitalism-oriented market-driven economy, it would be surprising to see developers collectively ignore a market as big as 50% of the population interested in games. That probably is the cause for why there are more games in general and why a huge amount of them could be described as targeting an audience preferring a somewhat shallow learning curve and more accessible (some even dare to say "casual") game play.

 

A greater part of the population has access to devices capable of universal processing. But of course they did not magically all convert to hardcore gamers. They are the same people as before they started carrying around a computer in their pocket all the time. So what would you expect to happen when a new audience consisting of men and women that just want to kill some time between work and sleep emerges? A greater part of modern games targets people that would just watch TV without that games. Wasting effort on a deep plot and intricate game mechanics would even reduce the profit because of minimizing the target audience.

 

But fear not. There is a (small) market for more complex games and it gets served too. Creating a mass-aufience AAA-title costs millions. Not every studio can aquire so much mony to spend. They do less graphics and create still good looking games for the less mainstream audiences. You always will get the games that match your taste... If you are willing to search for them. They are not gone - just burried under the big pile of TV show replacements.



#44 Judith

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 05:19 PM

I think, we live in the golden age of game modding today.

 

Not really. Compare it to the 90s and early 2000s, where people were able to make multiple maps on their own. That still applies to e.g. Thief community, where people can still release something like a 12-mission campaign. In modern titles, even with fully-fledged editor or SDK, you rarely see a custom level, map or a new quest. All you get for Fallouts and Elder Scrolls is gameplay tweaks, better textures, character models and such. That's because communities are much more fragmented, and because games got too complex for one person to handle.


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#45 stumpy

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 06:49 PM

modding is a lead balloon that got popped by people who would rather steal a mod than make it.



#46 Atomica

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 07:35 PM

 

Not really. Compare it to the 90s and early 2000s, where people were able to make multiple maps on their own. That still applies to e.g. Thief community, where people can still release something like a 12-mission campaign. In modern titles, even with fully-fledged editor or SDK, you rarely see a custom level, map or a new quest. All you get for Fallouts and Elder Scrolls is gameplay tweaks, better textures, character models and such. That's because communities are much more fragmented, and because games got too complex for one person to handle.

Yup, definitely. When I think of mods, among other things, I think of user-made maps and total conversions. Some of my best gaming experiences were actually from mods for the original Deus Ex, like Deus Ex: Nihilum, Hotel Carone, Zodiac and The Nameless Mod. All were made by users, free and had lots of interesting content and actual missions with full stories, some of which had fully-voiced characters and even new weapons and enemies. Essentially full campaigns, but created by users because the SDKs allow it. I have not seen a user-created campaign created using mod tools for a AAA title in years. Some of that might be due to games being too complex to allow it, but often it's just because the mod tools are either non-existent or not capable.

 

As for Outlooker's ramblings, these are the ramblings of someone who thinks essays are what people want to read on a gaming forum (which they aren't), and someone who has had a lot of time to come up with opinions that are generally quite silly. Or in other words, a person for which the Internet is their only real source of communication, and should probably cut back a bit for their own sake. I actually know one such person in real life - they're disabled and can't work (or at least they think they can't), so they get disability and spend their life gaming and arguing with people on the Internet. I generally pity them more than anything.


Edited by Atomica, 27 August 2017 - 09:56 PM.

Oh my God! JC! A bomb!


#47 Abusimplea

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 08:47 PM

Not really. Compare it to the 90s and early 2000s, where people were able to make multiple maps on their own. That still applies to e.g. Thief community, where people can still release something like a 12-mission campaign. In modern titles, even with fully-fledged editor or SDK, you rarely see a custom level, map or a new quest. All you get for Fallouts and Elder Scrolls is gameplay tweaks, better textures, character models and such.

At least for Skyrim, there are not only some quest mods, but also quite a few new lands listed on the nexus. Yes, there are tons of trivial mods. But there also are the complete and partial overhauls, new worlds, new quests and patch sets. Regardless of the engine used, it would be much harder to make something as large as Enderal without a proper world editor.

 

You are right, it got harder to release a state-of-the-art level for modern games (assuming tools of the same quality). But that can solely be attributed to the improved visual quality of in-game geometry. It is easier to model the blockyness of the Metal Age than to do a proper Darkmod map (although, modules might have reduced the amount of work a bit). And as a result there are fewer Darkmod maps than there are Metal Age maps. The real question is, whether the improved visual quality is worth the loss in quantity.

I am somewhat starving for new maps to play right now. I could play (literally) hundreds of maps that have been made since i last played the older thief titles. But i played the Darkmod since then and so i wander the forums and try to learn mapping until the next Darkmod map catches my attention for some hours...



#48 Destined

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 02:15 AM

The real question is, whether the improved visual quality is worth the loss in quantity.

I am somewhat starving for new maps to play right now. I could play (literally) hundreds of maps that have been made since i last played the older thief titles. But i played the Darkmod since then and so i wander the forums and try to learn mapping until the next Darkmod map catches my attention for some hours...

You answer the first question in the next paragraph (at least for yourself): If you rather wait here (and learn mapping, which is great, as you create new content yourself) than play Thief 2 maps, the improved visuals (and other improvements, that we don't want to forget) are apparently worth the reduced numbers.

 

I apologise for chiming in on Outlookers comment one more time. @Outlooker: You might want to create a dedicated thread for the topic, so not to hijack this one the whole time:

 

(Video Games specifically)

Women and men derive pleasure from different content.
Women's instincts are about self-presentation, social manipulation and caring roles. Women hate physical competition.
Women abhor shooters, physical fighting games of all kinds, spatial exploration and games about analyzing building structures,
games like Command&Conquer or Heroes of Might and Magic.
Games women desire are much like the Movies and TV series they desire: Soap operas, romances, and everything about  decoration and
presentation of their own bodies or living spaces (clothing, makeup, interior decoration, singing, dancing).
The only game I can think of that really exploited those female instincts and was hugely successful is The Sims: A room-
decoration and clothing simulator with big social, soap-opera-like romance and social interaction elements - it sold spectacularly, became one of the most
successful videogames ever, and, another anomaly - was mostly played by females, mostly avoided by males. It was so successful that it became the financial
foundation of EA's dominance in the industry for some time.
 
Men's instincts are about competition (physical or cognitive), systems, analyzing them, then competing with others to form a dominance hierarchy, trying to
get at the top and then rule (psychologists have named video games for men "achievement porn").
This happens by exploration, physical fighting, complex construction of systems, outsmarting the opponent (analyzing strategies and tactics),
in vehicle simulators (cars, airplanes), sports games, RPGs, 4X games etc. - the vast majority of women sees no point, receives no pleasure from such
games.
 
There is a correlation of rising numbers of female developers and games becoming more feminine, more disappointing to male players;
and my hypothesis is that there is also a causation.
 
 
The games I enjoyed most in the past-
 
Deus Ex, DMoMM, Dishonored, Thief, Severance Blade of Darkness, CoD Modern Warfare, System Shock, Master of Orion 2, Heroes of Might and Magic III,
Master of Magic, Command and Conquer, Warcraft, The Elder Scrolls, Age of Empires, Baldur's Gate, Doom (for a short time when I was a teenager),
Strike Commander, Drakan: Order of the Flame, Mass Effect 1/2/3 (the earlier ones more than the later ones!), ST Bridge Commander, Far Cry, Crysis 2, No One Lives Forever 1/2
 
and others - were all made by mostly male developers and tickled the male brain's reward center, not that of females, who mostly ignored such games - because they felt no pleasure
or even displeasure playing them.

For people tired of long text walls, here a short "too long; didn't read":

All female friends of mine enjoy games described as "male" games by Outlooker, so I think it is rather a matter of taste (formed mostly in the childhood) rather than gender that determines, which games people like.

The decreased appeal of modern games lies rather in the attempt to appeal to as many people as possible and not in an increased number of female developers.

 

Here the long version:

I don't want to comment on the refugee propaganda paranoia, as this topic is, in my opinion, too complex as to be discussed in an appropriate way in an internet forum and want to comment on the "female developers are destroying the games males enjoy". First of all, you are by far too generalising for my taste: You claim that women only feel rewarded and are, thus, drawn to "family simulation" games. However, all of my female friends enjoy games that you rate as "male" games. One of my best (female) frineds has played the first Mass Effect games at least 10 times and refused to play ME:A, because it did not appeal to her. Each of my female friends loves the Elder Scrolls games and one also spent her youth playing Command and Conquer. My sister played Mortal Combat with (or rather against) me and my brother. On the other hand, I first got in contact with The Sims through a male friend, who spent hours building houses and creating drama in the neighbourhood. I myself (as a male) do not enjoy competitive games (in the sense of playing angainst others) and prefer co-op games, while there is an increasing number of females in e-sports. It is a matter of personal taste, not gender. Consequently, I would say that the taste for specific games is not genetically coded, but rather trained. If a young girl plays with dolls (which may be strongly encouraged by parents/grandparents), she will more likely enjoy The Sims, while a girl that fights with boys and plays with cars is more likely drawn to similar games (racing games, ego-shooters/beat-em-ups) and a girl that reads a lot may be more interested in games with an interesting and complex plot. The same is, of course, true for boys. For me it sounds very much like you try to defend the "classic" roles of men and women by trying to imply that these roles are genetically hard-wired, which they aren't.

 

As to why games are not what they were before, I also think that it is not female developers (or any propaganda, tinted which way ever), but simply the goal to create more money. Developers try to appeal to as many people as possible and while you as a white male may not be able to identify as well with a black, female character, there are (overly simplified) three other types of people (black male, white female and black female), who identify as well or even better with this character. So, the goal is not excluding white, male gamers, but rather include other ethincities and genders. Many games also give options as to what/who you play (at least role playing games, which I play most), so the discussion about the protagonist, at least, is moot. And strong female leads are also present in older games and were enjoyed by male as well as female gamers. Iconic examples would be Samus Aran or Lara Croft. The gameplay, on the other hand, is also watered down to appeal to the masses, which is why most remakes of our beloved classics are not as good, because new (and in many cases unnecessary) features are crammed in, that are popular at the time. These features are not exclusively tailored for women, although at least some content will be created to appeal to them, just as other parts will be designed to appeal to males. But gender discussion aside, there are usually some RPG elements in shooters or stealth games, as this may attract some role playing gamers, while shooters often have some stealth passages (or options) to attract these gamers. This is not because there are more female developers, but because there is a greater variety of gamers that developers want to appeal to.



#49 RPGista

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

Sorry Destined, I admire your sincere attempt at reasoning here, but this is getting ridiculous. Why exactly are you guys trying to argue outlookers' patently insane views? Completely ignoring their absurdity and opting to discuss them only gives the false feeling that they are somehow valid and worth considering. Instead, we should be seriously advising this person to seek help. Like proper help. I mean, the vitriol and delusional paranoia is reaching maximum level. And it must be extremely uncomfortable for any people directly targeted by this hate speech to be reading this in a TDM forum thread.
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#50 stumpy

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 03:09 PM

If you ever watched the uk version of the apprentice, you would have noticed nearly every year they have an all male group and an all female group, and nearly every series the male group gets on and does the work they are supposed to do and the female group descends into internal fighting and loads of disagreements and vitriol complaints. So looking at that you can see what is wrong with everything.






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