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#101 Hewer

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 12:04 PM

Yeah, thanks. I've been looking for something similar to Martin.

I tried Wizards First Rule, and it was pretty good until the very end. There was some really bad dialog in the last couple of pages and I got John Wayne's voice stuck in my head for all the characters and it ruined it all for me. I remember really liking the beginning, though.


Crap- new page.

Edited by Hewer, 12 December 2006 - 12:06 PM.


#102 sparhawk

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 02:43 PM

Easily the worst book I ever read was "The dragonbone chair" from Tad Williams. It was three volumes and it was so boring that I really couldn't stand it. I still ploughed my way through it, but it took me quite some time. I only know of one other book which was equally as boring, which I had to read because of our german teacher.

The really bad thing about The Dragonbone Chair was, that it not only was boring, but also that the author wrote his way in until he didn't know his way out anymore, and then used a Deus Ex Machina trick to rescue his heroes and make a "happy" end.
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#103 oDDity

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 04:47 PM

I don't understand why you would continue reading a trilogy of books that you hate.
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#104 Crispy

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 08:15 PM

It's not only the dubbing. When the dialogues use a lot of play of words, or culture dependent jokes, tehn it's hard to translate. [...] Also the voices didn't fit, because a lot of fun came from the way the actors talked.

Yes. This is why many anime nerds don't like watching Japanese anime dubbed into English. The subtitled version is almost always superior. Still, even with subtitles you lose a lot. Fan-subbed anime sometimes includes notes explaining the language/cultural jokes, which helps, but the quality of those translations is variable.

I have a friend who's living in Japan at the moment on an exchange program, and he was telling me of his experiences seeing English movies in Japan. He went to see Pirates of the Carribean - it was in English, but with Japanese subtitles. He and his English-speaking friend laughed all the way through it, but the rest of the movie theatre was completely silent. Apparently the Japanese version butchered/omitted all the jokes. Makes me wonder how much I miss when I watch anime. :)
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#105 sparhawk

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 01:46 AM

I don't understand why you would continue reading a trilogy of books that you hate.


Me neither. :) I was younger than. :)
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#106 Vadrosaul

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 02:54 AM

Well I picked up A Game of Thrones today at Chapters, along with Wuthering Heights, Rise of Endymion, The Name of the Rose, and Atlas Shrugged.

I'm like a kid in a candy store when I stop there :D
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#107 oDDity

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 04:32 AM

They'll give you indigestion.
THe only good solution to reading or listening to media in another language, is to learn that language, but you have to learn it fluently before you can really pick up all the subtleties anyway.
Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.
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#108 Domarius

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 10:28 AM

"The Sign of the Chrysanthemum". What a waste of time. Sets you up for some cool epic story set in feudal Japan, the young would-be samurai goes to Japan in search of his father, the only description is he has a chrysanthemum tatoo on his shoulder. The boy gets help from a sandle maker, and starts to get feelings for the cute daughter. A mysterious ronin comes into the picture and befriends the boy. An expert swordsman takes the boy under his wing. The sandel maker daughter is taken away, and the boy gets beaten up by the brothel guards when he goes to retreive her.

OMG - great setting for an epic adventure! Train under the swordsman like Inigo Montoya, show the way of the samurai by the Ronin, go and rescue the girl, find dad somehow on the way!! No. It's like the writer lost interest and gave up suddenly. In one page it suddenly all winds up. The boy decides to spend his life working for the sword maker. The end. Woohoo.

#109 AluminumHaste

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 03:56 PM

What amuses me most about Robert Jordan (whom I haven't read) is that everyone seems to agree that his series went downhill but nobody seems to agree on where... I've heard everything from book 2 to book 9!


book 6 was the last good one for me I think.

The first 3 were pretty amazing IMHO.
BTW the last book I read was the HP Total Care Training Handbook :(

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

#110 sparhawk

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 04:04 PM

Right. From the 7th on it went downhill.
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#111 mikebart

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 07:13 AM

Well, ive been spending alot of my time lately reading the darkmod forum, you guys go off on alot of tangents, not saying theres anything wrong with that but you do :)

#112 Crispy

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 07:23 AM

It's a forum with an off-topic section and a thriving community (even if the community is mostly made up of members that hold most of their conversations in private forums - it's thriving behind the scenes!). These things will happen. :)
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#113 mikebart

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 02:04 PM

well its a good read regardless :)

#114 Komag

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 04:41 PM

On oDDity's recommendation, I recently started George RR Martin's "Fire and Ice - Game of Thrones" and am about 1/4 of the way through it.

So far it does seem pretty cool, but I have a few complaints:
1. No secrets. There is no mystery in the political intrigues, since everything is all revealed to the reader at all times. This is certainly a deliberate choice of writing approach, but I personally would prefer more secrets, like "I wonder who that was" moments.
2. Too graphic. I can handle mature material, but I think some of the events portrayed are unneccesarily "rated R", and I'd prefer a "PG-13" version better. I can't in good faith recommend this book to my younger neice who likes to read, for instance.
3. Often Cliche. The series is heralded as breaking out of the "Lord of the Rings" mold, but to me there are still too many "I know exactly what the next paragraph is going to say" parts. There are the typical characters, such as the pretty well behaved sister versus the wild boyish "want to break free of the restrictive girl mold rules" sister, the bratty rich noble boy who acts tough and superior but is really a wimpering coward but lies through his teeth, and others.
4. Too Direct. By this I mean that little details are stated that would better be left inferred, implied, or even left out. This mostly occurs during dialog, where the author clearly states why a character lifted his eyes or smiled or moved his hand or whatever. Maybe this is related to the "No secrets" complaint, that this is simply a deliberate writing style, to clearly lay out every little thing so there is no chance for reader confusion, but it kind of insults my intelligence quite often.

I dunno, it probably sounds like I'm just complaining too much. I like the book so far really, and will finish it and perhaps read the rest of the series. The world is impressively low-fantasy, the realities hard and bleak but still hopeful and bright. It's a good read overall so far.

I also noticed in the book store yesterday that there is a Role-Playing game (d20 standard) based on the first book, that looks pretty impressive, with some great artwork particularly that I right away recognized as key scenes from the story. I almost wanted to buy it just because of all the background it provides into the fictional world with regional and local maps, family histories, city economics, etc, but it's a $50 RPG book!
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#115 SplaTtzZ

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:34 AM

Oh man don't get me started on Robert Jordan; I've read ten Wheel of Time books, and I reckon they were the biggest waste of time. Jordan basically copies what Frank Herbert did in one book and somehow manages to drag that out over a series of books that looks nowhere near completion. You might as well just read Dune.

First 3 WoT books were ok, the 1st being the best, but after 3 it went downhill and got terribly repetitive. I'd much rather read Pratchett.

At the moment I'm reading Bernard Cornwell, namely the 'Sharpe' series, which i find interesting because I don't know very much about 19th century Great Britain. Though i think this series might end up dragging out a litle too long as well. I like historical novels the most , or at least fictions that try to remain factual and true to history. Some of the best books I've read were the Masters of Rome series by Colleen McCullough; great historical novels about Marius, Sulla, Caesar and Octavian. I found them to be very accurate and true to historical sources, they were also very long and comprehensive.

And if anyone is interested in 3rd Reich history I'd reccomend reading Albert Speer's Memoirs of the Third Reich; it offered really interesting insights into the major players of the era. Some British Television is trying to pass off Speer as being deeply involved in the holocaust, but I thought his book and his character were fairly sincere. Very interesting reading.

#116 oDDity

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 08:37 AM

On oDDity's recommendation, I recently started George RR Martin's "Fire and Ice - Game of Thrones" and am about 1/4 of the way through it.

So far it does seem pretty cool, but I have a few complaints:
1. No secrets. There is no mystery in the political intrigues, since everything is all revealed to the reader at all times. This is certainly a deliberate choice of writing approach, but I personally would prefer more secrets, like "I wonder who that was" moments.
...little details are stated that would better be left inferred, implied, or even left out. This mostly occurs during dialog, where the author clearly states why a character lifted his eyes or smiled or moved his hand or whatever. Maybe this is related to the "No secrets" complaint, that this is simply a deliberate writing style, to clearly lay out every little thing so there is no chance for reader confusion, but it kind of insults my intelligence quite often.

Give it a chance, there's a long way to go, you're 1/4 way through the first book in a 7 book story, nd there are a lot more characters to come, so I dont' think you can judge it yet - and it is a story that's planned out over the seven books, not just aimless 'oh, this book did well, I think I'll write another one to cash in', like the other fantasy series.
However, it's generally not written in a 'whodunnit' style. You follow the story from inside the heads of all the different characters, so you more or less know everything that's going on, but you do often get to see the same events interpreted differently by them, which I think is more interesting, and also get past events recollected, which brings a lot of current events into context. However there are surprises later on, because you don't see the world from the perspective of every character, so some are a mystery to you, and some of them affect events in a big way.

2. Too graphic. I can handle mature material, but I think some of the events portrayed are unneccesarily "rated R", and I'd prefer a "PG-13" version better. I can't in good faith recommend this book to my younger neice who likes to read, for instance.

Good. There are plenty of books for her age group already. I'm 35 and I don't wish to read books that are written for the sensibilities of 13 year olds. That's exactly why I've all but quit playing computer games.

3. Often Cliche. The series is heralded as breaking out of the "Lord of the Rings" mold, but to me there are still too many "I know exactly what the next paragraph is going to say" parts. There are the typical characters, such as the pretty well behaved sister versus the wild boyish "want to break free of the restrictive girl mold rules" sister, the bratty rich noble boy who acts tough and superior but is really a wimpering coward but lies through his teeth, and others.

Name me any book that hasn't got cliches in it. So much literature has been written to date, that total originality is almost impossible.
Those are realistic character types anyway, the fact that some of them have been used before in literature is not a surprise, and doesn't detract from them in my view.
Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.
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#117 Komag

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 10:54 AM

Yeah, I'm mostly reserving judgment until I'm done, and if you say that the series works best together, perhaps judgment needs to be reserved until I'm done with all 7!
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#118 MadhatteR

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 02:45 AM

At the moment I am reading Robbin Hobb,Book 2 of the soldier son trilogy, then again the assasin trilogy and the liveship traders trilogy were good ways to pass the time for me as well. Her previous writername was Megan Lindholm and those books are pretty fun to read too.

Another writer Neil Stephenson, wrote the (runs to the bookcase ehm... wikipedia :D http://en.wikipedia....Neal_Stephenson ) the baroque cycle and the Cryptonomicon these are his best books to read.

Robert Holdstock wrote mythago wood and the Merlin novels (celtica, merlin codex, broken kings) and these are fun to read.

I am also a big fan of Bernard Cornwell and have all his books: http://www.bernardcornwell.net/ :( damned I just saw that I have to get his latest one :D well its my b-day soon so I'll ask that then :D

Then again I read that someone was reading Wurthering heights, now you cant beat Heatcliff :D don't forget to put on Kate Bush to get in the mood for it :D another book I could recommend is reading Henry Fieldings "Tom Jones" Charles Dickens The old curiosity shop and Laurence sterne, the life and opinions of tristam shandy, gentleman. Oh and dont forget Gullivers travels by Jonathan Swift. Well ehm let's see ... given my current reading... adding some literature... yups I'm about done.

Greetzzz

p.s. stay away from Anne Mcaffrey with her horrid dragonriders of pern ... gruesome :(
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#119 SneaksieDave

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:38 AM

I'm still trying to figure out: How does everyone have so much time to read? :mellow:

#120 oDDity

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:54 AM

It's up to everyone to organise their life in such a way that they have free time to enjoy and do with as they wish.
The ones who do that well are the ones who have time to read, though I think Macsen just skives off work while reading.
I find it hard to believe you have no time at all to read a book - with meals, in the bath, before you go to sleep, while traveling, etc.
You can even combine listening to an audiobook with doing other things.
Mp3 players/ipods are now easier to carry around than a book.

BTW, my favourite audiobook is Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, both read by Rob Inglis. Even if you've read the books, which I'm sure you all have, and seen the movies, the unabridged audiobook version really is a delight, Inglis does a superb job reading it, and it's a very different experience from either reading it or watching th movies. If you like LotR at all, you shouldn't miss it.
Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.
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#121 sparhawk

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:18 PM

I'm still trying to figure out: How does everyone have so much time to read? :mellow:


I read quite a lot. On the toilet (my family always complains that I take so long :), depends on the book though ), or while I'm walking, or when I use the publics, which I use primarily for getting to work, because it's much more convenient then using a car, and of course in the evening in the bed. I always need at least 15 minutes minimum before I go to sleep. Usually it's more, but I don't often go to sleep without reading a little bit. Helps to relax. :)

And since I'm quite a fast reader, that time is sufficient to go through a few books per month.
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#122 sparhawk

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:21 PM

You can even combine listening to an audiobook with doing other things.


I tried to listen to the lord of the rings, because it can be quite a nice experience to hear it read from a professional speaker, if he is any good that is, but I noticed that I didn't get much of it when I did other things besides. When I program then I need to think about the code, and then I don't hear much from the story. Probably easier if I do other things, but as it is, I rather hear some easy listening music instead.
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#123 SneaksieDave

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:26 PM

It's up to everyone to organise their life in such a way that they have free time to enjoy and do with as they wish.

Well, I am (or at least I think I am?) trying to organize to include all that I need and want to do, and there's still not enough time even for those things, let alone daily book reading, too.

Between getting up and working 8-9 hours, preparing 3 meals and all the cleanup afterword (plus any other housework), cardio daily (bike), weights as many times a week as I can squeeze in (far too few lately :angry:), piano daily (average of one hour), guitar when I can fit it (this used to be my main instrument - I really need more time for this!), taichi (because if you don't practice daily, you're really just wasting your time with it)... and that's without mentioning that I'm a gamer and want to keep up with a barrel full of games I play (I've played one fan mission in almost a year :( ) including TDM stuff and whatever other internet goings-on, and that I'd like to take up meditation (you're supposed to do at least two 20-minute sessions daily??) but haven't, and then there's the question of social life (not just for weekends?)...

I reiterate: how do people find the time? The only time in there that I had to read was the 20-30 mins on the bike, which I do, probably 50% of the time (it's either that, or TV, so why not). I guess reading on the net qualifies for something, though probably not much. I got to book 9 of the apparently much maligned WoT series, and I do mean to continue. Someday. Soon. Probably.

I'd need 36 hour days to fit in the daily stuff I'd like to accomplish.

Edit: Regarding reading on the toilet :blush: Never found enough time. I guess using mass transit (train) would be perfect though, but I usually work at home. Walking around carrying a book all the time might work, but I generally need to concentrate more than 5 mins at a time. As for reading before bed, I sometimes try that, but it puts me right out within 5 mins. My head touches the pillow and I'm generally out for a solid eight.

Edit: Regarding those audiobooks, especially unabridged ones, I've never understood how they work? I read maybe 20 pages of a typical book like WoT per hour (probably part of my problem - I read slow). Those books are 700 pages long. It'd take 35 hours of audio to cover that - they're not that long, are they?

Edit: And I don't even have kids! I shudder to think what that would do to the schedule. :wacko:

#124 sparhawk

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 02:25 PM

I reiterate: how do people find the time?


The question was already answered. But if you try to do 50 different things that all take a lot of time, it's clear that your time gets short.
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#125 oDDity

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 02:34 PM

Well, I am (or at least I think I am?) trying to organize to include all that I need and want to do, and there's still not enough time even for those things, let alone daily book reading, too.

Between getting up and working 8-9 hours, preparing 3 meals and all the cleanup afterword (plus any other housework), cardio daily (bike), weights as many times a week as I can squeeze in (far too few lately :angry:), piano daily (average of one hour), guitar when I can fit it (this used to be my main instrument - I really need more time for this!), taichi (because if you don't practice daily, you're really just wasting your time with it)... and that's without mentioning that I'm a gamer and want to keep up with a barrel full of games I play (I've played one fan mission in almost a year :( ) including TDM stuff and whatever other internet goings-on, and that I'd like to take up meditation (you're supposed to do at least two 20-minute sessions daily??) but haven't, and then there's the question of social life (not just for weekends?)...



Well, obviously you have quite a bit of free time then, but are using it for other things. If you really want to read, then cut some of that other stuff out and read instead, it's your decision what to do with your time. Others choose to spend some of it reading rather than meditating, doing martial arts or music or whatever, that's how they find the time.
I used to play the guitar and piano as well, but gave up on them since I knew I'd never be really good playing, because I didn't enjoy it enough to put in the amount of time and effort that it requires to become really good, and I hate being mediocre at things, I either want to be very good, or nothing at all.
I've been doing weights for 15 years, but three or four 1 hour sessions a week is all you need for that unless your thinking of entering competitions or something, and you don't need a gym and bunch of machines, that's just a waste of travel time and money.

Edit: Regarding those audiobooks, especially unabridged ones, I've never understood how they work? I read maybe 20 pages of a typical book like WoT per hour (probably part of my problem - I read slow). Those books are 700 pages long. It'd take 35 hours of audio to cover that - they're not that long, are they?


The LotR recording I'm talking about is over 50 hours long, but it's enjoyable, so the longer the better.
Get yourself an mp3 player and you can listen to all the books you want while doing all those other things you mention at the same time.
Anyway, if you want to be really very good at something, you have to focus on it, I don't see much point in being average at 10 different things. I wish I@d learned that lesson earlier in life, since I was fucking around with a bit of everything, and only recently started focusing almost exclusively on CG, and that's why I'm now very good at it.
Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.
- Emil Zola

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