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New Faction Idea: Demon Cults


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#1 Kurshok

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:26 AM

References are made to demons in the wiki under Ghouls, Giant Spiders and Necromancers. However, no examples of demons are in-game. Since there is no overarching main vI'll a in like The Trickster in the game, I suppose demons are a bunch of independent monsters in a demented horde, like in Doom. Therefore, an idea for a new faction could be Demonologist wizards, as opposed to Pagan nature magic, Holy Magic by Builders, and Arcane Magic by the Mage Guild. Necromancy, I don't know if that fits in as a demonology art. Y'know, psychotic murderous cultists, summoned minor demons, and major demons should be prevented from being summoned as a mission. Maybe they're actually infernal, maybe they're corrupted nature spirits made violently insane from all the pollution Bridgeport puts out, who knows.

#2 demagogue

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:09 AM

I think the way things work around here is, you should make an FM establishing your new faction, and if it turns out to be an interesting faction and works well for FMs then people will get inspired and carry it on. I like the way some TDM ideas organically grow from the ground up instead of being mandated by fiat from on high.


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#3 Kurshok

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:41 AM

I think the way things work around here is, you should make an FM establishing your new faction, and if it turns out to be an interesting faction and works well for FMs then people will get inspired and carry it on. I like the way some TDM ideas organically grow from the ground up instead of being mandated by fiat from on high.

Well, I'm not sure whether it would fit in with the setting, so I wanted to get some community feedback.

#4 Judith

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:44 AM

In any case, this is similar to Kurshoks: if you don't plan to get down to work and do it yourself, then it won't happen.


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#5 VanishedOne

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:39 AM

I wondered whether someone had planned Fire Elementals to be in some manner demonic when I saw they have a suicide response to STIM_HOLY. (Though I think it's more likely someone forgot that holy water still carries a water stim like the regular water arrow result.)

 

The wiki reference to demonic spiders (assuming it wasn't written by a troper) might be a reference to this (which was abandoned because of dependency on Doom 3 assets), though perhaps only whoever wrote it knows for sure.

 

Ghouls apparently existed at one point, but as another entity class derived from D3 zombies; while standalone TDM has D3-free zombies, I'm not aware of any efforts to bring ghouls back, and honestly I've no idea how they differed from zombies.


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Some things I'm repeatedly thinking about...

- louder scream when you're dying


#6 Kurshok

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:16 PM

I'd like to see more types of corporeal undead. Ghouls could just be a faster, more feral and possibly demonic zombie. Maybe a zombie torso, or a headless zombie, or a bloated waterlogged zombie. Maybe a zombie plague mission, where you have to sneak contraband past a checkpoint in and out of a plague ward where zombies are held back by Builders, and bitten peasants are systematically slaughtered.

#7 VanishedOne

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:07 PM

a bloated waterlogged zombie

 

At one point it was planned that Doom 3 zombies would expand or shrivel during their deaths. The code path is still accessible by setting shaderParm8 to nonzero on an entity with an MD5 model, but it appears to be horribly broken.


Some things I'm repeatedly thinking about...

- louder scream when you're dying


#8 freyk

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:35 PM

I think the way things work around here is, you should make an FM establishing your new faction, and if it turns out to be an interesting faction and works well for FMs then people will get inspired and carry it on.

You are right.
I had that to learn the hard way, with my installer (for several os'ses), several other projects and now my cyberpunk-fm.
And I have/had to advertise them many times, once it picked up by others.

Edited by freyk, 15 November 2017 - 02:38 PM.


#9 CarltonTroisi

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:38 PM

References are made to demons in the wiki under Ghouls, Giant Spiders and Necromancers. However, no examples of demons are in-game. Since there is no overarching main vI'll a in like The Trickster in the game, I suppose demons are a bunch of independent monsters in a demented horde, like in Doom. Therefore, an idea for a new faction could be Demonologist wizards, as opposed to Pagan nature magic, Holy Magic by Builders, and Arcane Magic by the Mage Guild. Necromancy, I don't know if that fits in as a demonology art. Y'know, psychotic murderous cultists, summoned minor demons, and major demons should be prevented from being summoned as a mission. Maybe they're actually infernal, maybe they're corrupted nature spirits made violently insane from all the pollution Bridgeport puts out, who knows.

You seem like a good writer with some interesting ideas. If you're not able to build a Fan Mission based around these concepts, my suggestion is to pen a short story or two, which may act as inspiration for another builder.  You seem to have a Lovecraftian sensibility which may translate very well for the right kind of mission; I think several FMs are inspired by his work, in fact.


Edited by CarltonTroisi, 15 November 2017 - 02:48 PM.

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#10 Kurshok

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 03:43 PM

You seem like a good writer with some interesting ideas. If you're not able to build a Fan Mission based around these concepts, my suggestion is to pen a short story or two, which may act as inspiration for another builder.  You seem to have a Lovecraftian sensibility which may translate very well for the right kind of mission; I think several FMs are inspired by his work, in fact.

I don't currently have a working game computer. That's why one of the first questions I asked when I joined was "will this game ever be ported to PS4, due to compatible software?" However, after a few of my ideas here were well-liked, I d agree that I could write down some plot ideas for fan missions in the Fan Mission section, being sure to label them as "ideas" and not actual missions. Would anyone else agree to reading my mission ideas and giving me critiques?
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#11 stumpy

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:57 PM

necromancy isn't demonology, its warlocks for demonology, so its something like shadow magic or void magic (nicked that info from blizzards warcraft online multiplayer game)

necromancy is controlling dead lifeforms like zombies and ghosts and lich's.

 

demonology would be controlling demons or daemons, or fallen angels, or some creature from a evil plane of existence. like what the doom games are actually base on.



#12 Kurshok

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 03:07 AM

Thanks for the info, Stumpy.

#13 Destined

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 03:51 AM

necromancy isn't demonology, its warlocks for demonology, so its something like shadow magic or void magic (nicked that info from blizzards warcraft online multiplayer game)

necromancy is controlling dead lifeforms like zombies and ghosts and lich's.

 

demonology would be controlling demons or daemons, or fallen angels, or some creature from a evil plane of existence. like what the doom games are actually base on.

That highly depends on the world we are talking about. In several RPG systems it is possible to animate corpses with the help of a demonic entity. So necromancy can be a subcategory of deonology, but it does not necessarily have to. As quite often, the rule is: do what you like ;) Either your idea gets picked up by others or it won't. As long as it fits your own idea, it does not really matter.



#14 Kurshok

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:42 PM

Yeah, but there's a setting that links all of the Dark Mod missions together. It all takes place in Bridgeport, and the leading faith is The Builder Church. I can't just pull some lore out of my ass without Springheel's consent and make references here and there to things which might not be canon, right?

#15 VanishedOne

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 01:16 PM

On mission themes note http://forums.thedar...er/#entry366485 -- these days, Lord Dufford's is listed as an available download. So it can exist and have its existence acknowledged without having become 'canon'.


Some things I'm repeatedly thinking about...

- louder scream when you're dying


#16 Destined

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

Not all missions have to be 'canon'. There are, of course, recurring elements (like the Builders or the Bridgeport as a city), but the idea was that each map author can do whatever he likes. So if you want to introduce undead that are raised, because the Builder himself is acutally a demon in disguise, knock yourself out ;) 



#17 Springheel

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:03 PM

I can't just pull some lore out of my ass without Springheel's consent and make references here and there to things which might not be canon, right?

 

 

Sure you can.  The stuff on the setting pages is just a starting point.  We try to stick to certain details as the "official" setting just to try and create some sense of continuity, but that doesn't mean mappers can't make whatever they want. 


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#18 Kurshok

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:54 PM

 
Sure you can.  The stuff on the setting pages is just a starting point.  We try to stick to certain details as the "official" setting just to try and create some sense of continuity, but that doesn't mean mappers can't make whatever they want. 

Well, alright. Springheel, I think I'll follow your advice you gave me about a year or so ago, and make a Fan Mission topic where I write my plot for a fan mission so if anyone else has the time to make one but can't come up with their own plot, they could use mine. Or maybe it was someone else who said that to me.

#19 Kurshok

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 04:37 PM

Okay, my idea is up under Fan Missions.

#20 Petike the Taffer

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 08:28 AM

I think the way things work around here is, you should make an FM establishing your new faction, and if it turns out to be an interesting faction and works well for FMs then people will get inspired and carry it on. I like the way some TDM ideas organically grow from the ground up instead of being mandated by fiat from on high.

 

I concur.






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