Jump to content


Photo

Lowend Challege: Get TDM 2.06 running on the oldest and slowest hardware

challenge low-end hardware

  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:05 PM

Since TDM 2.06 is such a different animal to the other 2.x builds (which are also much different to the 1.x builds prior to 1.08), I thought it would

be a good idea to see what folks can do when armed with our performance tuning wiki:

 

http://wiki.thedarkm...formance_Tweaks

 

How low can you go?

 

Certainly, you can no longer do tricks to make TDM run on DX8 hardware with unless that hardware fudges GL2 support via

driver workarounds.

 

If you set image_downsize to 16 can you run this on 64mb GPU's?

 

How old of a CPU supports Multi-Core?

 

I'm not expecting a large number of respondents but those who wish to go into their storage and revive an old ATI X1600 or Geforce FX 5900 to

see "can it run" please post here.


  • Judith and Anderson like this
Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#2 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:06 PM

To my knowledge, the oldest hardware reported is:

 

Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Intel® Core™ i5 CPU   760  @ 2.80GHz (4 CPUs)
8192MB RAM
DirectX 12
GeForce 8800 GTS

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#3 Anderson

Anderson

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1015 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:15 PM

I don't believe "oldest" hardware is a great idea because at that point even getting the cheapest Celeron on retail will cost less than the price of fixing anything wrong the old one (if anything breaks there, good luck finding something that fits and ordering it online, AFAIK for example to find a Vodoo card for one specific version of a motherboard and vice versa).

If anything, potatoes just like the current dual core Celeron I'm currently running are the most common laptop cheap PC's lots of people get around with. 

Just enough to run some documents and not necesarilly the oldest thing in the world, but at the same time weak enough to struggle running harder FM's from TDM.

 

Spoiler


Edited by Anderson, 03 June 2018 - 03:49 PM.

  • nbohr1more likes this

 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#4 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:17 PM

Lowest GPU reported

 

Intel Celeron B830 1.8ghz

HD 2000 graphics

2GB RAM

Windows 10


  • Anderson likes this
Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#5 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:19 PM

I don't believe "oldest" hardware is a great idea because at that point even getting the cheapest Celeron on retail will cost less than the price of fixing anything wrong the old one (if anything breaks there, good luck finding something that fits and ordering it online, AFAIK for example to find a Vodoo card for one specific version of a motherboard and vice versa).

If anything, potatoes just like the current dual core Celeron I'm currently running are the most common laptop cheap PC's lots of people get around with. 

Just enough to run some documents and not necesarilly the oldest thing in the world, but at the same time weak enough to struggle running harder FM's from TDM.

 

Lot's of folks purchase (or re-purpose) old "highend" hardware as "retro" gaming machines. There may be those who decide to do Thief games and

may consider TDM part of that pursuit considering the engine was originally from 2004. It's a good idea to see where we stand on that front as well.


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#6 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:23 PM

Azaran over at ttlg, has this as his last hardware profile:

 

CPU: Intel dual core i3-3225 3.30 Ghz

RAM: 16 GB DDR3

Video Card: Nvidia Geforce GT 640, 2 GB

Asus motherboard

OS: Windows 7 Home Premium

 

Not that lowend in the grand scheme of things but worth a mention.


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#7 demagogue

demagogue

    Mod hero

  • Active Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5380 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:29 PM

I ran it once on a 10" ASUS EEE clamshell laptop I got for $100 used, probably circa 2005, Windows 7, some single core .8ghz chip and the low end Intel graphics from 2005. I reported it in the "what system have you played it on" thread. It stuttered a lot but you could actually play a simple FM like Thief's Den. That's well below the recommended low, which is good because it's not recommended. Was basically playing it on a glorified potato with wires.
Posted Image

#8 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:38 PM

I ran it once on a 10" ASUS EEE clamshell laptop I got for $100 used, probably circa 2005, Windows 7, some single core .8ghz chip and the low end Intel graphics from 2005. I reported it in the "what system have you played it on" thread. It stuttered a lot but you could actually play a simple FM like Thief's Den. That's well below the recommended low, which is good because it's not recommended. Was basically playing it on a glorified potato with wires.

2.06 ?

 

(I'm trying to narrow the scope.)


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#9 Jetrell

Jetrell

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 73 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 04:35 PM

I'd like to help. I have a few old and older laptops and desktops just sitting around here collecting dust. The question is, what is your definition of "working"? For consistency sake, what FM should I try?


  • nbohr1more likes this

#10 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 04:46 PM

I'd like to help. I have a few old and older laptops and desktops just sitting around here collecting dust. The question is, what is your definition of "working"? For consistency sake, what FM should I try?

 

That's an interesting question. I think I'd like to know:

 

1) Ultra low minimum: Closemouthed Shadows

2) Bare Minimum: Mission 2: Tears of St Lucia

3) Reasonable minimum: William Steele 1: In the North

 

But I'd be happy to know any of the above.


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#11 Premier

Premier

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:59 PM

Well, I have:

 

CPU: Intel dual core E7600, 2*3.06 Ghz

RAM: 4 GB, but WinXP presently without 3GB mode in boot.ini, so only 2GB available to TDM 

Video card: NVidia GeForce 9600 GT

OS: WinXP

 

I can play most FMs fine. A few large ones crash unless I reboot the computer in 3GB mode first, though.


  • lowenz and nbohr1more like this

#12 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 06:24 PM

Well, I have:

 

CPU: Intel dual core E7600, 2*3.06 Ghz

RAM: 4 GB, but WinXP presently without 3GB mode in boot.ini, so only 2GB available to TDM 

Video card: NVidia GeForce 9600 GT

OS: WinXP

 

I can play most FMs fine. A few large ones crash unless I reboot the computer in 3GB mode first, though.

 

Hmm that card supports GL 2.1.

 

Does the Multi-Core option boost your FPS at all?


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#13 Abusimplea

Abusimplea

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 398 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:38 PM

The PC i play TDM on:

Intel Core2 Quad Q6600, 2.4 GHz, 8 GiB DDR2 on a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4

nVidia GeForce GTX 660, 4 GiB GDDR5

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 (will migrate to Linux when support ends)

In the lifetime of that rig, i changed the GPU twice and got an SSD, but the Motherboard CPU and RAM are now ten years old.

 

I played on 2.06 since a softshadows build was available to the public and it really improved my experience a lot. I still get microstutter and the occasional FPS drops. Also can't start Ullysses Genesis - but had no ingame crashes otherwise and graphics glitches have been drastically reduced in the last months.

 

Most games do not need much CPU power - so my ancient rig is still good enough to play them with lower shadow settings (everything else seems to be handled by the GPU).

TDM always needed more CPU power than other games but 2.06 seems to have reduced the demand quite a bit.


  • nbohr1more likes this

#14 stumpy

stumpy

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1798 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:07 PM

i got 2.06 running on my print server, which is

win 10 pro 64bit version 1709

intel core 2 duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz

8.00GB DDR3 @ 532Mhz

1024mb nvidia GeForce 210

loaded a new job, did take a while though to get going.


  • nbohr1more likes this

#15 chedap

chedap

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 11:48 PM

Acer Aspire 5920G laptop (August 2007)
Intel Core2Duo T5250 (1.50 GHz)
GeForce 8600M GT (256 MB)
DDR2 RAM (2 GB)
Windows 7 (32-bit)

1280x800, FOV 90, LOD lowest, multi-core on, post-processing off, AA off, anisotropy x1, vsync off, EFX off, soft shadows off, ambient enhanced, interaction enhanced. darkmod.cfg untouched.

Closemouthed Shadows: stays at 60, drops to 30 in the fireplace/window room. (elevator's bugged, but I doubt it's a 2.06 thing)
St.Lucia: stays at 25-35, stutters when going around corners and such (fetching visleafs, I'm assuming).
In the North: 60 in darker areas, 40 in corridors/rooms, 25 when several leafs in view at once, 15 outside.
Briarwood Manor: 8 at starting point, around 25 inside, 12 in the room with open window.
Behind Closed Doors: 15 at the stairway, 10 inside warehouse, 20 at Balakin's. Outside it's mostly around 12-15, but there are occasional drops to 5 - not sure about the source, seems to happen less while standing still, but happens anyway (unrelated to AI opening doors).

Since I haven't caught up with FMs, I don't know if there are even heavier missions to test, but so far every mission loads fine and is playable. 10 FPS is stretching it, but most missions probably sit at around 30 with stutters between locations.


  • nbohr1more likes this

#16 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 11:53 PM

Acer Aspire 5920G laptop (August 2007)
Intel Core2Duo T5250 (1.50 GHz)
GeForce 8600M GT (256 MB)
DDR2 RAM (2 GB)
Windows 7 (32-bit)

1280x800, FOV 90, LOD lowest, multi-core on, post-processing off, AA off, anisotropy x1, vsync off, EFX off, soft shadows off, ambient enhanced, interaction enhanced. darkmod.cfg untouched.

Closemouthed Shadows: stays at 60, drops to 30 in the fireplace/window room. (elevator's bugged, but I doubt it's a 2.06 thing)
St.Lucia: stays at 25-35, stutters when going around corners and such (fetching visleafs, I'm assuming).
In the North: 60 in darker areas, 40 in corridors/rooms, 25 when several leafs in view at once, 15 outside.
Briarwood Manor: 8 at starting point, around 25 inside, 12 in the room with open window.
Behind Closed Doors: 15 at the stairway, 10 inside warehouse, 20 at Balakin's. Outside it's mostly around 12-15, but there are occasional drops to 5 - not sure about the source, seems to happen less while standing still, but happens anyway (unrelated to AI opening doors).

Since I haven't caught up with FMs, I don't know if there are even heavier missions to test, but so far every mission loads fine and is playable. 10 FPS is stretching it, but most missions probably sit at around 30 with stutters between locations.

 

Might be worthwhile to use the image_downSize cvars to reduce your VRAM usage.

 

http://wiki.thedarkm...mage_downsizing


  • stgatilov likes this
Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#17 chedap

chedap

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 12:02 AM

Going to try it, but not right now. I tried it with St.Lucia before and there was no visible difference in FPS, but it could fix the drops in BCD.


Edited by chedap, 04 June 2018 - 12:02 AM.


#18 Jetrell

Jetrell

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 73 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

Installed TDM 2.06 on my oldest desktop:

Windows Vista 32-bit

Intel Core2 Duo CPU@3.00GHz, 4.0GB RAM, ATI FirePro 2260

 

Used all of the available performances tweaks but it failed, miserably... Not a big surprise but I thought I'd give it a shot.



#19 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:45 AM

Installed TDM 2.06 on my oldest desktop:

Windows Vista 32-bit

Intel Core2 Duo CPU@3.00GHz, 4.0GB RAM, ATI FirePro 2260

 

Used all of the available performances tweaks but it failed, miserably... Not a big surprise but I thought I'd give it a shot.

 

Is that FirePro a (legacy) PCI card?


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#20 Jetrell

Jetrell

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 73 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:55 AM

 

Is that FirePro a (legacy) PCI card?

Sadly, yes... It's the culprit, right?



#21 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:57 AM

Sadly, yes... It's the culprit, right?

 

I suspect so. Though I wonder about how well the MSVC 2013 libraries work on Vista...

 

I'd like to examine this further.

 

Would you be willing to supply your Darkmod.cfg and a condump  (eg open console > condump whyisitbroken.txt )?

 

Edit:

 

Taken to PM.


  • Jetrell likes this
Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#22 Premier

Premier

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:05 PM

 

Hmm that card supports GL 2.1.

 

Does the Multi-Core option boost your FPS at all?

 

Haven't tried it yet, but I shall.



#23 cabalistic

cabalistic

    Member

  • Development Role
  • PipPip
  • 339 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:20 PM

Multi Core requires GL3 support to give a viable performance boost. Without it, it has to fallback on glFinish for syncing the two threads, which is going to cost you...



#24 nbohr1more

nbohr1more

    Darkmod PR, Wordsmith

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8866 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:02 PM

Even more of a puzzle.

 

Driver 285.38 claims to grant all 8xxx and  9xxx GPU's OpenGL 3.3 capabilities.

 

Wikipedia shows that Nvidia released multiple 9xxx cards with some have 3.3 hardware and

some having 2.1.

 

Premier's condump shows 3.3 compliance at least

 

OpenGL vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL renderer: GeForce 9600 GT/PCIe/SSE2
OpenGL version: 3.3.0
v - using GL_ARB_sync
GL fence sync available

 

Cant vouch for OpenL threading on XP though...


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#25 Bikerdude

Bikerdude

    Mod hero

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19971 posts

Posted 04 June 2018 - 04:12 PM

I have this old shed sitting in a box, dont know if this the lowest machine spec so far-

 

Dell D410

  • Intel Pentium M 755 / 2 GHz
  • Mobile Intel 915GM Express
  • Intel GMA 900 - it only support OpenGL 1.4, what the min requirement for 2.06..?
  • Windows Xp, but I may put linux on there.
  • 1024*768 screen, but it barley runs T2 @ 800*600

  • Abusimplea likes this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: challenge, low-end, hardware

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users