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Windows XP support


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#1 stgatilov

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:08 PM

As you probably know, TDM 2.06 still works on Windows XP.

We had an issue that the latest tdm_update did not boot on Windows XP. There is a fixed version. If you need it, please PM me.

 

The current idea for the future 2.07 version is to allow running it on Windows XP too.

However, this support cannot last forever.

 

Windows XP support by Microsoft ended in 2014 (though hacks can probably extend it to 2019).

A lot of libraries (including the ones we use) have already dropped support for Windows XP.

For instance, FFmpeg has dropped support in version 4 released two months ago. There is no prebuilt version of boost for MSVC2017 with XP support. Microsoft Visual Studio 2017 can still build stuff compatible with Windows XP, but it is not clear when this will end.

 

The idea is to drop Windows XP compatibility by TDM 2.08. This is not the next version yet unreleased, but the one after it.

So I would like to ask everyone: who still runs TheDarkMod on Windows XP?

If yes, then what do you think about dropping Windows XP support? Do you have a plan to migrate to newer version of Windows (or to Linux) ?

 



#2 LDAsh

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:32 AM

I was a staunch defender of Windows XP support previously, and still am in terms of tools and (even if limited) development capability, but in terms of running an engine as a final "experience" then I don't know what kind of machine would it be that is using XP and has any decent drivers available.  Whatever I thought about XP applies to Linux support also, and these days I think that's way more important.

 

Before, I was thinking about TDM in correlation to Doom3, but since BFG edition and 2.06, with all the performance and graphics enhancements, 2004 was really a very long time ago now.  I have to think hard if it could even be considered strictly "idTech4" anymore, as I'd identify it.

 

So, if anything, I'd like to see DarkRadiant still with XP 32bit support, but can't realistically expect TDM itself to be on the same level.  Tools should always have higher compatibility, I believe.



#3 Destined

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:42 AM

I would suggest to keep and offer the last version that is compatible with XP seperately. That way people still on XP can always use this one. Maybe it would be good to mark maps in regards to comaptibility with this version, but maps created with later versions do not necessarily not work with it, it has just a higher propbability of errors. Still, especially smaller maps might work.


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#4 wesp5

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:53 AM

I would suggest to keep and offer the last version that is compatible with XP seperately. That way people still on XP can always use this one.

That's a good idea! Keep a "legacy version", maybe 2.05, because soft shadows probably made a huge impact on old systems anyway...


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#5 Anderson

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:58 AM

Soft Shadows can be turned off completely.


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#6 Anderson

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 10:26 AM

My opinion is that atm, it is not that hard to upgrade to Win 7 for many systems. For example I had a 2.66 Ghz single core PC with 1 gig of ram and an Nvidia 6600, later changed to an Nvidia 9500.

 

It updated to Win 7 flawlessly and had no problems. It is a version better than Win XP and no glitches like Vista.

So, supporting Win XP religiously isn't worth it IMHO. The people who want to be in full control can just use Linux but that doesn't mean that Win 2000 or DOS is so critical.

 

More effort to make TDM work on old hardware is important though. 

Focus on making Uncap FPS and Multicore Enhancement work well, without crashes and streamlined. This will go a long way to make TDM accessible.


Edited by Anderson, 15 June 2018 - 11:24 AM.

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 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#7 Abusimplea

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 02:21 PM

Switched from XP to Windows 7 long ago. But with Windows 7 support ending 2020, the status of the native Linux x64 version seems to be much more important than any Windows before 10. Microsoft seems to be determined to keep on pushing Windows 10.

So everyone that is using old Windows versions now (including me) will have to decide whether to switch to Windows 10 or Linux for gaming anyway. Therefore this two platforms should get all the developer love.

 

P.S.: This month, the support for Firefox on Windows XP and Vista ends. IE, Chrome and Opera already stopped supporting Windows XP.



#8 chakkman

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:02 PM

So everyone that is using old Windows versions now (including me) will have to decide whether to switch to Windows 10 or Linux for gaming anyway. 

 

I don't know which games you play, but... not sure if that IS even a decision for most gamers. About 1% of games are available for Linux. Which makes sense, considering its market share, especially on the gaming market.


Edited by chakkman, 15 June 2018 - 05:03 PM.


#9 Abusimplea

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 04:24 AM

 

I don't know which games you play, but... not sure if that IS even a decision for most gamers. About 1% of games are available for Linux. Which makes sense, considering its market share, especially on the gaming market.

The games available for Linux are not only the games that are released natively for Linux. You have to add those that run okay with Wine.



#10 chakkman

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 05:53 AM

I never really bothered with Wine, because it's a pain for me to make stuff work which doesn't work natively, but, ok... as long as no copy protection is involved that may be right. Let's just say it is nothing for the typical gamer, who just wants to game.


Edited by chakkman, 16 June 2018 - 05:53 AM.


#11 Abusimplea

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 01:23 PM

I never really bothered with Wine, because it's a pain for me to make stuff work which doesn't work natively, but, ok... as long as no copy protection is involved that may be right. Let's just say it is nothing for the typical gamer, who just wants to game.

Wine only works well, if you are running a pretty standard multilib distribution like Ubuntu. It is also mostly good for running older games. The same applies to Windows XP now and will apply to Windows 7 after end of life gives the game devs more confidence in using the latest DirectX wich will be unavailable for older Windows versions.

For copy protection there are Good old Games (shop specialized in DRM-free games) and gamecopyworld.com (wich provides cracks to apply on your legit version to remove / disable the protection from games not bought on GoG).

Of course, the typical gamer is, and will not be, on Linux. But neither is he running any end-of-life Windows (Windows 7 currently still has 36% share among gamers according to Steam (the typical PC gamer has games requiring Steam) - but it is not end of life and DX12 has not become mandatory for new games just yet.

Also, the typical gamer does not play TDM. ;)



#12 Premier

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 02:56 PM

XP user here. I've been thinking of upgrading the OS for at least a year or two, but I was using my computer working on a big job-related thing for over the last half a year and didn't wan't to change horses mid-race, plus some unpleasant experiences with OS troubles in the past made me very skittish.

 

If and when I change, it will definitely be Win 7, and I consider Linux or later version of Windows to be absolute no-nos for the foreseeable future.


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