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Rim Lights?


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#1 duzenko

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 02:15 PM

Is it something we want to add to the engine?

https://www.epicgame...fetch?id=343728

If so, does it need to be per material or per entity?


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#2 Spooks

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 02:27 PM

Judith actually hacked together a kind of rim light consisting of a radial gradient texture on a cubemap (IIRC), I'm sure he can re-post his steps here.

 

In general I've always found the Deadly Shadows rim light frob highlighting a bit better, but even if you undertook the task of find & replacing all the old frob highlight code in the materials, I can't think of anything else that would benefit from something like that ATM.


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#3 Judith

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 03:05 PM

Is it something we want to add to the engine?

https://www.epicgame...fetch?id=343728

If so, does it need to be per material or per entity?

 

Hell yes! Some kind of fresnel function would be great to have, I wanted to do a frobbing shader that would look like that, but it could have other uses too. This should be defined by material IMO.


Edited by Judith, 30 September 2018 - 03:06 PM.


#4 nbohr1more

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 03:17 PM

???

 

The HDR light post process includes rim lighting:

 

http://forums.thedar...implementation/

 

Did that get removed?


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#5 duzenko

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 03:43 PM

???

 

The HDR light post process includes rim lighting:

 

http://forums.thedar...implementation/

 

Did that get removed?

I never noticed it. Can you see that with ARB shaders? GLSL?



#6 nbohr1more

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 04:12 PM

I'll double check when I get home.

 

Here is a screen from 1.03:

 

penitence01.jpg

 

The highlighting on the normal map on the left wall is influenced by rim lighting.

 

Whether we do too much or not enough is an open question.

 

As well as whether we should give more control of this aspect to mappers.


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#7 nbohr1more

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:15 PM

OK I tested tonight:

 

Rim_lighting_206.jpg

 

Left Image = 2.06 GLSL Default Interaction Shader (No Rim lighting)

 

Middle Image = 2.06 GLSL Enhanced Interaction (Rim lighting on the barrel closest to candle)

 

Right Image = 2.04 ARB Enhanced Interaction shader  (Rim lighting on the barrel closest to the candle)


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#8 nbohr1more

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:23 PM

Now, whether we also want something extreme like the first (top post) screenshot is another question.

 

Judith made a custom cubemap material for frob that matches that look:

 

http://forums.thedar...stom-frob-idea/

 

Do we really need a custom GLSL program to do this when we can do it already (albeit less efficiently)?


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#9 Judith

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:54 AM

 

Do we really need a custom GLSL program to do this when we can do it already (albeit less efficiently)?

 

Yes, to control it in more meaningful manner and without using lights.

The shader I made often goes through the whole model:

obraz.png

 

While Duzenko is talking about something like this:

https://api.unrealen...html#DotProduct

https://api.unrealen...um.html#Fresnel

 

And that can be used for things like frob outline, force fields, but also for stuff like metals or transparent glass.


Edited by Judith, 01 October 2018 - 12:59 AM.


#10 Judith

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 02:57 AM

This is something we could achieve with dot product/fresnel, a more elegant frob:

 

obraz.png


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#11 HMart

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 09:36 AM

Rim lighting is not only good to make a better frob highlighting like Judith showed but can also give characters well more character, by making them stand out from the background, Valve for example used it for good effect on all their games since HL2. 

 

https://www.gamasutr...im_Lighting.php

 

 



#12 duzenko

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 10:13 AM

Can we sort out the terms here.

I was talking about the ambient silhouette highlighting from all sides, not that "specular" stuff from the point light direction.



#13 Judith

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 10:13 AM

Rim lighting is not only good to make a better frob highlighting like Judith showed but can also give characters well more character, by making them stand out from the background, Valve for example used it for good effect on all their games since HL2. 

 

https://www.gamasutr...im_Lighting.php

 

Yup, rim shaders are often used to separate characters from the environment a bit, or to differentiate friend/foe teams in coop games.

 

I was talking about the ambient silhouette highlighting from all sides, not that "specular" stuff from the point light direction.

 

That's how I understood it, fresnel effect from in engine lighting is a different thing.


Edited by Judith, 01 October 2018 - 10:15 AM.


#14 HMart

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:34 PM

Can we sort out the terms here.

I was talking about the ambient silhouette highlighting from all sides, not that "specular" stuff from the point light direction.

 

That is also rim lighting, it is a term for a particular effect "Rim lighting is a light that typically comes from beside or behind your subject", Valve just used specular to do it in that case. Search for rim lighting on google you will see the picture bellow. 

 

rim-lighting-02.jpg?resize=500%2C750&ssl





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