34 replies to this topic

[Darkness_Falls]

 

I'm the one that came up with the name, and I don't remember it ever being established that the broken glass referred to a broken spyglass.

 

My memory is pretty foggy, but the only discussion I can recall about potential visuals was a stained glass window.

 

Not true, I'm afraid I thought of the name, actually. I proposed it along with other possibilities, we held a vote, and it was decided to be the one we would go with. I don't have access to the dev forum anymore to dig up that post and the ensuing discussion where we finally had a name that most everyone on the team was agreeing with, but you should be able to find it pretty easily. (There wasn't a good consensus on any proposed names until that one, so we all agreed to go with it.)

 

I've been given proper credit for devising the moniker on the The Dark Mod's website for a long time now: "Darkness_Falls (Concept Art & Audio) – Ideas, concept art and audio for the mod. Created the name ‘Broken Glass Studios’."

 

For what it's worth, in case of any curiosity out there, I also made and posted in the dev forums an early 3D logo / splash screen test long ago when I was still on the dev forums side, whereby the glass logo flies toward the camera. My 3D skills are improved since then, so I may try a new version soon; for fun, if nothing else. But here are some stills from that video test...

 

PS: I'd say Broken Glass Studios was more just a play on words of Looking Glass Studios. There was more to the thought process than that... and it was originally conceived in a partly non-serious way, as I recall; but it sounded too decent to not propose as a serious consideration. It, inherently, had several different meanings, including homages to LGS, which made it more interesting. For example, a team member at the time commented something like, "Picking up the pieces left behind by the broken LGS", or something to this effect, as one inherent meaning. But there's, of course, broken glass in thieving sometimes... etc.

Attached Files

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•  BGS-stills.jpg   102.14KB   0 downloads

Edited by Darkness_Falls, 22 October 2018 - 06:32 PM.

[Springheel]

I thought of the name, actually.

 

 

 

You're absolutely right, DF.  My apologies!  I know I came up with several names for things back then, and had it stuck in my had I thought of that one too. That's what 15 years will do to someone's memory. 

 

I went back and read over the original thread, and Oddity even posted a potential logo in that thread, which should be presented here for consideration:

 

[Darkness_Falls]

Not a problem! Thanks for double-checking Trust me, you have contributed so much more to this mod than me, have 37,000+ posts to my measly 2,500, and have been a gateway for and a participant in so many more conversations than me over the years that I couldn't imagine being able to keep track of every little detail like that. Much easier for me Can't believe it's been 15 years!? Did you *have* to write *that*?!! Hahaha. Wow, time flies. 

 

Regarding stumpy's comment of, "It was supposed to be a broken spyglass"... I'd have to say, "No, it wasn't" It wasn't as simple as that, and that's not the thought process I went through, from what I can remember. It was probably one of the side adventures my mind went through or visions I saw when I thought of the various benefits of the name, but it wasn't really the trigger for the name. The name has always meant several different things encapsulated in the one name; never just one thing like solely "a broken spyglass."

[stumpy]

have to break your bubble I as Belboz was using that name in june 2000 I actually give fingernail permission for the dark mod team to use the name in a email, if you don't believe me then check out the logo at the top of thief 2 "the tricksters gem mine" campaign, I never changed the picture and it still has the date of 8 june 2000.

try ttgm-errandboy20-v2.zip in intrface/Main_1.pcx.

 

i can only open the pcx file via vlc media player

playing one of the map in the campaign must mean it stuck in your memories and it came up through discussions, not actually remembering wherever you saw it. the name is 18+ years old not 15.

original concept was a broken spyglass but i never added it. But I gave permission for the team to use it as they wanted, so carry on.

[Darkness_Falls]

No need to get upset My bubble isn't burst, since I have no idea what that campaign is, never played it, never heard of it, wasn't on my mind or subconscious when I thought of it, never discussed it, and was never brought up in any Dark Mod discussions prior to me proposing it, etc. I, honestly, have never heard of the name ever being used anywhere except for The Dark Mod at any point prior or since me bringing it up; and I was involved with or read pretty much every non-coding Dark Mod discussion thread there was early on.

 

I'm not upset because word combinations and wordplay exists for practically everything. And going from Looking Glass Studios to Broken Glass Studios is not that far of a stretch, to be honest. Perhaps it's just a simple case of, "Great minds think alike." It's difficult, if not impossible, to have a 100% truly unique/original idea in this world. Is there a chance you thought of it and used it in 2000 before I did in 2004 or whenever it was? Of course. Just as it's possible someone else did before you. But, like I said, I have no idea what that campaign is. I've seen and played very few mods compared to what exists; and that name alone, "Tricksters Gem Mine," I can assure you I would not have played or given it any time of day. I'm not saying it's a bad name, don't get me wrong. It's just that it's implying a map/level/story design that I wouldn't have found appealing back then or pre-Dark Mod.

 

So, as it pertains to The Dark Mod, and the origins of Broken Glass Studios as it pertains to The Dark Mod -- which this thread is about -- I can, unequivocally, say that the original thought/concept/impetus/derivation was not a broken spyglass. And it was not brought up in any discussions I ever saw; and not brought up in the thread where we were talking about naming our team until I mentioned it; and I doubt it would be found in any TDM developmental thread prior to me bringing it up. (Current mod members could probably easily confirm this through searches of the forum.)

 

If you conversed with Fingernail, it was probably after we took our vote to use the name. Fingernail was very rarely ever involved in our discussions, and perhaps after we chose Broken Glass Studios, maybe he or someone other team member did a Google search and found your campaign -- or knew of it based on their experiences -- and so thought to ask you about it. Hard to say. I can only speak from my perspective on my proposal for how the team got named. Fingernail never asked me about it or suggested it to the team as a whole before I mentioned it.

 

It's really cool you thought of the name for your purpose. Very nice! Looking Glass Studios seems to have inspired both of us in our own unique ways. I'm glad we can pay tribute to them, as you and I have separately done with our naming homages.

[Petike the Taffer]

I went back and read over the original thread, and Oddity even posted a potential logo in that thread, which should be presented here for consideration

 
A blast from the past !
 

So, as it pertains to The Dark Mod, and the origins of Broken Glass Studios as it pertains to The Dark Mod -- which this thread is about -- I can, unequivocally, say that the original thought/concept/impetus/derivation was not a broken spyglass. And it was not brought up in any discussions I ever saw; and not brought up in the thread where we were talking about naming our team until I mentioned it; and I doubt it would be found in any TDM developmental thread prior to me bringing it up. (Current mod members could probably easily confirm this through searches of the forum.)

For the sake of clarity:

I don't know what the impetus behind "Broken Glass Studios" was, you guys know better. I do know that Looking Glass Studios originally wanted a literal looking glass (a mirror) in their new logo, but the guy making it confused it for a spyglass. They still liked the head-and-spyglass logo, and it stuck.

I never claimed anyone even thought of a logo for Broken Glass, nevermind one with a broken spyglass. The fact that you and others (Oddity) already did some promo images for BGS is entirely new to me, but I'm very pleased by that fact.

Edited by Petike the Taffer, 23 October 2018 - 01:34 AM.

[Darkness_Falls]

 
I never claimed anyone even thought of a logo for Broken Glass, nevermind one with a broken spyglass. The fact that you and others (Oddity) already did some promo images for BGS is entirely new to me, but I'm very pleased by that fact.

 

I never knew that spyglass story regarding LGS. Pretty awesome! To be honest, I never knew that a looking glass was *not* a spyglass; but now I know, thanks to the LGS logo debacle, lol

 

I tried to find the video for my logo tonight, but couldn't locate yet. Will try again tomorrow in some other places. I have it somewhere. I was envisioning a splash screen or video while the mod loaded sort of thing for my eventual logo or video. Knowing the modding community, though, I felt a splash screen/clip would not be received very well and the idea quickly nixed (i.e., "Why do we have to sit through or click past a promotional logo or clip?? This isn't nVidia or EA. Take me to the game already!") I was very new to doing 3D stuff back then, so my attempt was mainly just for fun. Although, I really wanted a BGS logo. HMart's re-design of the logo posted earlier is pretty sweet for a quick test

Edited by Darkness_Falls, 23 October 2018 - 01:52 AM.

[Petike the Taffer]

I never knew that spyglass story regarding LGS. Pretty awesome! To be honest, I never knew that a looking glass was *not* a spyglass; but now I know, thanks to the LGS logo debacle, lol

 
Well, Carroll's Alice goes through a mirrior, i.e. a looking glass, hence Through the Looking-Glass (which also inspired TTLG.com's name, come to think of it...).
 

I tried to find the video for my logo tonight, but couldn't locate yet. Will try again tomorrow in some other places. I have it somewhere. I was envisioning a splash screen or video while the mod loaded sort of thing for my eventual logo or video. Knowing the modding community, though, I felt a splash screen/clip would not be received very well and the idea quickly nixed (i.e., "Why do we have to sit through or click past a promotional logo or clip?? This isn't nVidia or EA. Take me to the game already!") I was very new to doing 3D stuff back then, so my attempt was mainly just for fun. Although, I really wanted a BGS logo. HMart's re-design of the logo posted earlier is pretty sweet for a quick test

That's okay, no hurry. I'll confess I also skip over the generic TDM intro video in each FM. Recently, I liked the rather cool TDM intro seen before the briefing in some of Goldwell's missions, but I think even that would get old after a while. Maybe a bit less than the generic intro we use, but probably no logo is entirely impervious to the "let's-just-click-through-it" mentality we all share to a certain extent.

 

Years ago, I liked what Frictional Games did with the intro of both their logo and the logo of their first commercially released game (Penumbra:Overture). After the opening text, the dev logo appears, but the intro/main menu music has already kicked in and it's raining around the logo. By the time you're thrown into the main menu, you see the artwork shows a gloomy family funeral, and it continues to rain virtual raindrops. Why there's a funeral going on is unclear at that point, adding to the initial mystery, but it becomes readily apparent what role it plays in the story once you hit New Game and see the opening cutscene.

 

Personally speaking, if a game developer's (or film/TV production company's) logo catches my interest, it's usually because of a combination of interesting (but tasteful) visuals with immmersive ambience. Looking Glass Studios had its cold wind and chimes or bells, that, along with the colours and contents of the logo, made it feel tailor-made for a series like Thief. (Though I think it worked well in the System Shock II intro as well.) The equally defunct Ensemble Studios (them of Age of Empires fame) had an animated logo showing an eclipse, but it was the brief ambience in that logo vid that really made it stand out. At least for me. Then there are cases like the aforementioned one with Frictional's debut, which went for something a bit different - not just to show off the logo itself, but to participate to a certain extent in drawing the player into the atmosphere of the story ahead.

Edited by Petike the Taffer, 23 October 2018 - 02:59 AM.

[161803398874989]

 

That's okay, no hurry. I'll confess I also skip over the generic TDM intro video in each FM. Recently, I liked the rather cool TDM intro seen before the briefing in some of Goldwell's missions, but I think even that would get old after a while. Maybe a bit less than the generic intro we use, but probably no logo is entirely impervious to the "let's-just-click-through-it" mentality we all share to a certain extent.

Funny, I always watch the generic TDM intro video! I only play very rarely so it's like sitting down to watch a movie, I want to get going from start to finish.

[Darkness_Falls]

Thanks for the info, Petike! I put some simple audio to my logo video, so when I find it, I will share. I didn't have access to much free audio, couldn't really create my own, and I was looking for a quick audio fix... so, don't expect much

 

Also, come to think of it, I think my splash Broken Glass Studios logo video idea was maybe more a thought for putting as a front bumper or end bumper to teaser trailer releases, but with the obvious possible side benefit of putting in the game startup sequence. Been a while; can't remember exactly.

 

But please have comfort in knowing it was never seriously considered as a possibility for the game startup and not discussed much (at least during my time in the TDM weeds) In my mind, yes, it was (seriously considered), since I've always loved splash screen logos and videos for games, TV shows, and movies. If done well, they resonate with me and become nostalgic goodness. For most others in the world, though, I think it's probably an eye-rolling experience to have to endure or click through such things Admittedly, I also, eventually, grow tired of having to click through such splash screens for games.

 

Regardless, the Dark Mod logo, gears, banners, and other visual delights in the game and in trailers was and is, arguably, enough awesomeness to please the soul.

 

EDIT: It wasn't easy, but I finally found the test videos! The audio was the best I could do at the time; I didn't find very many sound options on the interwebs, lol. I've uploaded them here tonight. Remember, I did these back in probably the mid- or late-2000s and was new to 3D modeling/animating and it was just for fun or inspiration. I think the crackling fire sound was meant to be a crackling torch, if I'm not mistaken; and I probably wanted to have firelight dancing on the glass/lettering, but had no clue how to do that back then. The coloring of the glass was also supposed to try and be somewhat representative of a moonlit night...

 

Splash Screen v3 -

Splash Screen v1 - Same as above, but is longer and has footsteps and a blackjacking thud mid-way through: 

Splash Screen v2 - A more subtle version, in terms of glass hit strength:

Edited by Darkness_Falls, 24 October 2018 - 01:52 AM.