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#1 graybeard

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 04:42 PM

Has anyone found a lot of dead AI lying around while playing? I have been finding a lot of dead AI without any apparent reason.  I had thought that they were killing each other but in several games there are half a dozen dead without any one around them. I have tried to noclip and watch but haven't seen any die but later when I retrace my path, they would be dead. This has happened in about the last half a dozen games.



#2 Springheel

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 05:34 PM

That shouldn't really be happening, no.
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#3 graybeard

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 08:12 PM

is there any way to disable the don't kill objective in games that have it, because the dying ai cause the objective to fail and stops the game-



#4 grayman

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 08:34 PM

No.

 

Which missions?

 

What O/S?

 

What version of TDM?



#5 demagogue

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 08:51 PM

is there any way to disable the don't kill objective in games that have it, because the dying ai cause the objective to fail and stops the game-

 

You could open the .map file in a text editor and literally delete the text for the no kill objective if you have to, but what you're describing shouldn't be happening, so it'd be better to fix the problem at the source. Maybe if you re-installed TDM it'd help?


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#6 grayman

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 09:06 PM

Editing the no-kill objective in the map file can have a negative effect on the mission. Some missions require that certain AI remain alive throughout, so you'll be exchanging one problem for another.



#7 chakkman

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:00 AM

Which missions?

 

Yeah, that should be the most important question. Some missions DO have dead AI's lying around, or, AI's getting killed. Not "a lot" though.



#8 JackFarmer

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:14 AM

Hello grayman,

 

I recall similar problems with HHI under 2.06.

 

On the highest difficulty level there is a zombie in the entrance of the crypt below the graveyard. During beta testing,  the zombie would be sometimes dead at games start (I noticed this maybe two or three times, but most of the time it worked ok). After the release one player also metioned a dead zombie lying there (and thought it was intentional and a very good decision).

 

Coincidentally, I just dropped my new master spiderman in my WIP (2.06) and he's dead everytime I start the mission:

 

Spoiler

 

At first I thought this might have something to do with the walk speed, but returning to the default value does not change anything.

 

Hm...


Edited by JackFarmer, 26 January 2019 - 09:17 AM.


#9 chakkman

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:41 AM

If that's a bug, then it's the most wicked bug i've heard of, so far. :P



#10 grayman

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:59 AM

I haven't seen the dying AI problem, so for me to look at it, I need a bugtracker issue and an example (mission, location in mission, name of victim).



#11 graybeard

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 11:41 AM

Thanks for all the response, and to the mod builders out there thanks for some of the best gaming that can be found bar none.

 

At present I am playing Ws3 cleighmoor which has a no kill objective that I can't keep playing because during the course of time some ai somewhere else in the game has died 

 

- previously I have played Ws2 home again- before that Ws1 north- Vfat 3 art of revenge- Vfat 1-  Poets and Peasants- pearls and swine- Accountant 1and  2- Alberics curse- -and several more that I can't remember --- maybe not all those games had dead ai lying around but most of these had more that should be. In the beginning of the problem, in some of the games I didn't  start to notice right away but just assumed that a bug caused other ai to kill the other, but now it is apparent that something is wrong. I will try uninstalling dark mod then reinstalling.

 

Another thought just occurred to me; a few weeks back I suddenly started having frame rate problems with some newer games and frame rate seemed slow so I searched for solutions and made some changes that I can't remember, but now I wonder if that could affect this sort of thing?    

 

some of the settings that I may have changed were:

enabling Multi-Core optimization in Advanced video settings
Disable Soft Shadows

Set Ambient rendering to "Faster"

Set Object Detail to "Lowest"

Lower resolution

Using full screen

 


 



#12 stgatilov

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 11:46 AM

Another thought just occurred to me; a few weeks back I suddenly started having frame rate problems with some newer games and frame rate seemed slow so I searched for solutions and made some changes that I can't remember, but now I wonder if that could affect this sort of thing?   

some of the settings that I may have changed were:

enabling Multi-Core optimization in Advanced video settings

Please report if you have "Uncapped FPS" on.

It has huge effect on physics, and combined with low FPS it can wreak havok.



#13 Springheel

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 12:20 PM

Also, please let us know if you are using 2.06 or the 2.07 beta version of the game.


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#14 grayman

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 12:30 PM

WS3: Cleighmoor has a known accidental death that slipped through beta testing. It occurs now and then.

 

I created this patch to solve the problem.



#15 stumpy

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 03:54 PM

looks like that spiderman died in the floor, is the origin on its bounding box at feet level or someplace else.



#16 graybeard

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 09:26 PM

yes have "Uncapped FPS" set to on. - should I have set to off?
- using  version 2.06



#17 stgatilov

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:57 AM

yes have "Uncapped FPS" set to on. - should I have set to off?
- using  version 2.06

You can try to disable it and see if the issue disappears.



#18 graybeard

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:54 AM

changed setting "Uncapped FPS"  to off and replayed some games that had dead ai and they are now alive and well. That must have caused all the problems. Thanks for the info. 



#19 grayman

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:18 PM

Does this imply Uncapped FPS presents a health hazard for all AI?

#20 OrbWeaver

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:49 PM

Based on this issue and stgatilov's statement about Uncapped FPS wreaking havoc with physics, it sounds to me like the option should not appear in the GUI at all, but instead be an experimental cvar that users can enable if they really want to try TDM with their super-fast monitor or VR headset.

 

An option named "Uncapped FPS" sounds like the sort of thing that is going to trap a lot of new players — if they are getting a low FPS then perhaps they can increase performance by removing this unwanted "cap".


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#21 grayman

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 01:34 PM

An option named "Uncapped FPS" sounds like the sort of thing that is going to trap a lot of new players — if they are getting a low FPS then perhaps they can increase performance by removing this unwanted "cap".

 

U-FPS is in the Experimental section, so I would assume players realize they're taking on a bit of risk turning on any experimental features. But U-FPS will never become mainstream unless it's shown that the physics and/or AI problems it causes have all been dealt with.


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#22 stgatilov

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:48 PM

I know of the issue with rope physics.

The problem is that presence of issues with uncapped FPS depends on FPS. And most testing efforts covers higher-than-60 FPS.

It seems that with low FPS time delta is allowed to grow arbitrarily large, which is dangerous for physics.

It is not clear yet what to do with it.



#23 stgatilov

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:51 PM

Added issue 4983.

Let's hope it does not drown in the pile of issues.



#24 OrbWeaver

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 07:53 AM

U-FPS is in the Experimental section, so I would assume players realize they're taking on a bit of risk turning on any experimental features.

 

If you do want to keep it in the GUI, another option would be to add some additional explanatory text to make it clear just how "experimental" this feature actually is. For example:

 

 

Uncapped FPS

 

Highly experimental option for use with ultra-high-frequency monitors or VR headsets. Does not improve FPS on low-end systems, and might break maps.


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