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#1 The Black Arrow

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 02:54 PM

This new 2.07 update is amazing.

 

It not only gives Soft Shadows (which were in 2.06 anyway) but also improves performance which used to be terrible in 2.06 (or so I heard, didn't even try it) and not just that, but also gives you the option to switch between CPU-bound shadows (Stencil) or GPU-bound shadows (Maps).

 

Kudos to the Shader Artist, they're my favourite developers and I'm a Texture Artist with Shader skills myself anyway.

 

My RTX 2070 can finally kick The Dark Mod's cute little butt instead of being pussywhipped by my puny (overwhelming actually, for OpenGL2.0 that is) Intel i7 2600k.

 

Can't wait to see what major changes will there be with 2.08 out, where it will use OpenGL 3.3 instead of OpenGL 2.0, a big improvement already by just one number upgrade.

I'm curious though, why OpenGL3.3 and not directly to OpenGL4.6? Major compatibility issues?


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#2 nbohr1more

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 03:21 PM

I finally grabbed some good comparison shots:

OLD:

 

Attached File  soft_stencil.jpg   54.08KB   2 downloads

 

NEW:

 

Attached File  contact_harden.jpg   54.02KB   2 downloads


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#3 chakkman

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 04:30 PM

Good morning. :D



#4 lowenz

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 04:54 PM

Hello! :D

 

Yes, now we need a form of AO.


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.


#5 The Black Arrow

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 05:40 PM

Yes, now we need a form of AO.

 

I'd disagree but I'd rather be prudent.

 

If they get HBAO, it should be passable, if they get their own AO or a recent modern AO technique, it would be way better. SSAO can stay forgotten though.

 

AO is the ugliest effect I have ever seen in any game, it's only barely good when it's HBAO, somewhat.

 

HDAO could be better, haven't tried much but I prefer it over SSAO in Max Payne III, it's AMD-made after all, nobody likes AMD sadly.



#6 lowenz

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 08:58 PM

Of course I mean a good AO.

IMHO MXAO of Marty McFly (-> https://github.com/m...mcmodding/qUINT ) is a good start.


Edited by lowenz, 03 February 2019 - 08:59 PM.

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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.


#7 Taquito.

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 01:51 AM

I also hope to see more Graphic options in the future. The more the better like RE 2 Remake. So many options to tweak in that game it's a bit overwhelming at first.

 

I'm Shook with the performance boost with 2.07. It would be interesting to see a side comparison between this version and the first ones, fps count included.



#8 Taquito.

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 02:05 AM

BTW the Soft Shadows give TDM a more T1, T2 vibe.



#9 The Black Arrow

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 03:05 AM

Of course I mean a good AO.

IMHO MXAO of Marty McFly (-> https://github.com/m...mcmodding/qUINT ) is a good start.

 

Too bad it's post-process through an external injector, won't be as good or accurate as actual in-game implementation of HBAO/HDAO.

 

I also hope to see more Graphic options in the future. The more the better like RE 2 Remake. So many options to tweak in that game it's a bit overwhelming at first.

 

I'm Shook with the performance boost with 2.07. It would be interesting to see a side comparison between this version and the first ones, fps count included.

 

If they make it like RE2Remake, then yes, if not, not really worth it as overwhelming graphics will just make you spend more than 2 hours changing settings for nothing.

Kinda hard to differ between Maps & Stencils unless you do it through console or change in options instantly, for example.


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#10 demagogue

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 05:11 AM

I still dream of multiplayer, even knowing myself how much our code isn't made with it in mind, I mean thousands or tens of thousands of little snippets of code you'd have to tweak. I think it's something in the realm of possibility if a superfan with coding experience made it their major project for a year, but it's the existence of such a superfan that I wonder about. 

 

Accurate physics would also be nice, although that's a big change, not necessarily all that critical for gameplay, and one would need to think about how it affects past FMs (I believe you'd have to keep the old system and put some spawnarg on objects to use the new system). So it's not as big a deal all things considered.

 

Then I'll start getting into the neighborhood of dreams of "good AO" and the like.


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#11 lowenz

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:22 AM

 

Too bad it's post-process through an external injector, won't be as good or accurate as actual in-game implementation of HBAO/HDAO.

 

You can of course import the code, after talking about that to Marty McFly (it's the right owner, but I think TDM can be a good showcase / promotion for him).

 

And man, IT'S already accurate -> http://forums.thedar...e-2#entry433673


Edited by lowenz, 04 February 2019 - 06:23 AM.

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.


#12 stgatilov

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 08:19 AM

Can't wait to see what major changes will there be with 2.08 out, where it will use OpenGL 3.3 instead of OpenGL 2.0, a big improvement already by just one number upgrade.

I'm curious though, why OpenGL3.3 and not directly to OpenGL4.6? Major compatibility issues?

OpenGL is not built completely around versions.

You can have basic OpenGL 1.1 and add geometry shaders, Vulkan-like low-level capabilities, and whatever else via extensions.

This is how TDM uses geometry shaders, stencil textures, VBO synchronization, etc. now.

 

But this approach gets more and more messy over time, and easily catches driver issues.

Some drivers support new features in new version but don't have extensions for them (because that is a waste of time for driver makers).

Living in the ancient times is fragile.

 

The main reason for upgrade to GL 3.3 is compatibility, not performance.

I don't expect much performance boost. Maybe there would be, but it is secondary goal.

 

The reason for not upgrading directly to GL 4.6 is supporting old hardware.

Believe it or not, we have at least one active player with GL 3.1 cap, and it is still uncertain: maybe we will support it too.

We have no Linux-side developer, and GL 3.3 is the best we can get inside a Linux virtual machine (which Windows developers usually use to test/debug Linux build).

Anyway, using GL 3.3 is not incompatible with using GL4 features, it would just be a bit more headache for developers to do it properly.


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#13 kano

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:19 AM

Jumping directly to OpenGL 4.6 would obsolete many players' hardware. And you can already do amazing stuff with 3.3, just take a look at Blender Eevee, as that's what it uses.



#14 The Black Arrow

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:19 AM

OpenGL is not built completely around versions.

You can have basic OpenGL 1.1 and add geometry shaders, Vulkan-like low-level capabilities, and whatever else via extensions.

This is how TDM uses geometry shaders, stencil textures, VBO synchronization, etc. now.

 

But this approach gets more and more messy over time, and easily catches driver issues.

Some drivers support new features in new version but don't have extensions for them (because that is a waste of time for driver makers).

Living in the ancient times is fragile.

 

The main reason for upgrade to GL 3.3 is compatibility, not performance.

I don't expect much performance boost. Maybe there would be, but it is secondary goal.

 

The reason for not upgrading directly to GL 4.6 is supporting old hardware.

Believe it or not, we have at least one active player with GL 3.1 cap, and it is still uncertain: maybe we will support it too.

We have no Linux-side developer, and GL 3.3 is the best we can get inside a Linux virtual machine (which Windows developers usually use to test/debug Linux build).

Anyway, using GL 3.3 is not incompatible with using GL4 features, it would just be a bit more headache for developers to do it properly.

So it is just as I thought, the whole 2.0-to-3.3 was for a practical reason, it being "Compatibility".

I'm very sure there may be some performance boost, it uses new tech after all, but it also depends on how you implement it. I suppose this isn't basing the whole engine on OpenGL3.3, right? Just "updating" it?

So there will surely be no performance boost, it's just like making a game on DX11 and then giving the option to use DX12, it's mostly a software upgrade.

 

Still, better than 2.0, old tech regarding computers is never any good.



#15 lowenz

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 06:27 AM

Well, DX12 is another kind of beast, like Vulkan :P

You can't simply "soft-upgrade" to DX12 because DX12 is a "very thin layer" API.....and you must re-write ALL the engine :D (DX12/Vulkan does not ship with a ready-to-use memory management system, etc.)

In fact, IMHO, the correct name would be "DirectY" and not "DirectX 12".

 

The fact is today GPUs/drivers are designed/optimized for DX11+OpenGL 3.x/4.x software.....no more no less than this.

So it's not a surprise that the SAME function in OpenGL 3.x performes better than in OpenGL 2.x on today GPUs/drivers.


Edited by lowenz, 05 February 2019 - 06:31 AM.

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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.


#16 cabalistic

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 03:05 PM

Actually, I at least do expect some performance gains, and I've already seen some during experiments I did for my VR mod. They won't be stellar, but the switch does allow some optimizations in regards to driver overhead. The current backend performs very poorly in that regard and regularly drains the GPU of work. That is going to get better with GL3 and there is also some potential for even further improvements with optional GL4 features.

 

Like I said, it's not going to be a massive improvement, but it should definitely make an observable difference in scenes which particularly suffer from this.



#17 wesp5

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 03:38 PM

I don't know if this is the right thread to post, but with 2.07 I get some strange reflections of my weapons when I am underwater. Even the weapon I used last, the sword in the right screenshot. Also the gray strip on the right moved around with me underwater. Mission: Hidden Hands: Initiation...

Attached Files


Edited by wesp5, 05 February 2019 - 03:40 PM.





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