Crossbow?

[oDDity]

Here come the pictures....

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew you Canadians were backward, but I didn't realised you hadn't upgraded from steam.

[Hylix Ulyx]

The mod's obviously don't want a shit throwing contest, so I'll defer to them. As a matter of pride, I will say that I'm not finished argueing, but I'll only respond to one final thing:

 

From mr. b.

Your saying "if you want realism, go outside" is idiotic, because outside isn't a computer game.

 

That is precisely my point. Outside isn't a game, which is why it's reality. Although the statement itself is, I admit, narrow, it was (I thought) sufficient IN GENERAL TERMS to explain my thesis. Realism is an ABSOLUTE representation of reality, as was the holodeck...though I will remind you that the holodeck, as well as star trek itself, isn't real. When we as a species can create a fully realized, three dimensional game world that can be recognized by all five senses as being indistinct for reality, then I will be more than happy to defer to your arguement.

 

I will also say to Mr. B that although my tone was obtuse, I was not outright insulting. People on forums have a tendancy to say things to a faceless name they wouldn't normally say to a nameless face.

 

Keep that in mind next time you throw feces at your monitor.

 

Sorry to derail the thread.

 

Hylix.

Edited August 5, 2005 by Hylix Ulyx

[New Horizon]

I knew you Canadians were backward, but  I didn't realised you hadn't upgraded from steam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, that's what we call a "green" train. It's powered by human "emissions", not steam. We have special seats on our trains to aid in the collection too. "PULL DOWN YOUR BRITCHES AND RIDE THE CANADIAN RAIL", that's our proud slogan.

[Hylix Ulyx]

"PULL DOWN YOUR BRITCHES AND RIDE THE CANADIAN RAIL"

 

That is so going in my quote scroll.

[sgt ginge]

Here is what I picture the rope-bolt to be like, and why I think it could be made to work (given a lot of stretching for fantasies sake.)

 

Imagine the head of the bolt to be four prongs, like one of those gardening tools you jam into the ground and twist to tear up a plug of dirt.  The prongs would be arranged so that the points would form a square if you looked at em head on, equidistant from one another.  These prongs would be the anchor of the bolt. Set in the middle of the four prongs is the corkscrew head, primed.  You fire it, the prongs and the tip of the corkscrew  sink into the wood lets say 3 inches, not impossible with a crossbow keeping in mind they have a lot more power than a similar sized bow.

 

So now the prongs are set and the screw point is too.  The second stage is triggered.  A powerful spring mechanism, contained within the shaft (whichis why I recommended they should be made outta metal) is released and begins to unwind, driving the screw head into the wood.  The four prongs are now acting as anchors to give the mechanism counter screw leverage against which to push, keeping the screw headdriving forward instead of it pushing itself out of the wood.  So now we have four anchors 3 inches deep into the wood and the corkscrew mechanism driving lets say an additional 6 inches in.  Considering that the Thief is a smaller sized dude, thats a lot of anchoring.  Hell, rock climbers tap pitons into cracks a LOT less deep than.  Finally, a small but sturdy ring holds the rope attached to the prong part of the head.

 

As oddity pointed out, the player need see none of this but I wanted to describe it specifically to make it believable.  Obviously, such a tool would be way expensive, this isnt the work of the local blacksmith I assure you, maybe gnomes or some mechanically inclined breed.  The mechanism would not be retrievable though the rope could be, thus limiting them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

Although out of the realms of plausability, you could possibly use the corkscrew bolt to pluck guards from rooftops and loot them. Quite useful if there is a person holding an important key on higher ground.

[Maximius]

Although I officially dis-engaged from this thread, my intra/extra dimensinal nature allows me to post here without actually posting here.

 

Here come the pictures....

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I laughed so hard when I saw that my work-mates got pissed. Completely off the topic, but worth it:

 

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=37368

 

If you dont wish to be infected with the Red Scourge, scroll down to the bottom of the page for the jpg entitled "Intelligence failure" I wish I could post it but I dont know how.

 

P.S. Chavez in '08!! Viva Chavez!!

 

Although out of the realms of plausability, you could possibly use the corkscrew bolt to pluck guards from rooftops and loot them. Quite useful if there is a person holding an important key on higher ground.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like that idea, I dont know if its feasible from a programming POV but it would be fun. Maybe it could be used to make a rope bridge too that the Thief could scoot across chasms with. But let me back away from the topic while I still have all my limbs....

[Bhruic]

That is precisely my point.  Outside isn't a game, which is why it's reality.  Although the statement itself is, I admit, narrow, it was (I thought) sufficient IN GENERAL TERMS to explain my thesis.  Realism is an ABSOLUTE representation of reality, as was the holodeck...though I will remind you that the holodeck, as well as star trek itself, isn't real.  When we as a species can create a fully realized, three dimensional game world that can be recognized by all five senses as being indistinct for reality, then I will be more than happy to defer to your arguement.

 

If you are unable to grasp the concept of "realism" as it applies to a computer game, then there really isn't anything to discuss. It should be obvious that a game modelled after the laws and limitations of the "real world" can be considered more "realistic" than, say, a pure fantasy game. Using the definition you seem attached to, there can't even be such a thing as "more realistic" because you seem to believe that realism "is an absolute representation of reality", to use your own words. That's just out and out silly.

 

I will also say to Mr. B that although my tone was obtuse, I was not outright insulting.  People on forums have a tendancy to say things to a faceless name they wouldn't normally say to a nameless face.

 

Keep that in mind next time you throw feces at your monitor.

 

Actually, you were outright insulting. Heck, you were just outright insulting again (comparing my post to "throw(n) feces", to be specific). You seem to believe that if you cloak your insults in subtlety that no one will notice then. Unfortunately, you're wrong.

 

Bh

[New Horizon]

Last time I'll ask nicely folks. COOL IT!

[sparhawk]

Realism in terms of a story, game or movie is what is real inside the storyuniverse. As an author you have complete freedom to define what this realism is made, the only thing that I despise, is when an author violates his own realism. This means. A rope arrow is perfectly acceptable to me in a Thief style universe and particular in the Darkmod universe. A rifle is not. And there is no point to discuss, because as authors WE have the freedom to define what is realistic and what not, and no amount of arguing can change that. It would be the same as if you would argue with me why I shouldn't like Terry Prattchet. It's a personal taste thing and therfore not arguable on a rational basis.

[Hylix Ulyx]

Okay.

 

Hylix.

[bob_arctor]

#120 of tension will shoot very far despite the flat trajectory.

by something within #25.

 

 

120 NUMBERS OF TENSION!!! GOD SAVE US ALL!!!!??!?!!!

 

But seriously what are you on about? What is #? Do you mean 120 Newtons of tension? Or is this that freaky non-metric US system of physics (snort! chortle!) with slugs as the unit of mass!!!!

[Ishtvan]

That would be Pounds. Obscure system it may be, but I've only ever heard the draw strength of bows discussed in pounds for some reason, not Newtons or Kg.

[bob_arctor]

Oh. Pounds in the Uk (unit of mass not force though...) is lb. Ei 126lb is 126 pounds.

[FishFace]

Oh, I see, oDD, I thought you were intending to implement exactly the same method of firing and of mechanics as the shortbow. If not, I'm all for it. FWIW, I'd suggest being able to load before aiming, because it takes an ass-age to load (don't ask me what the ass-age is in SI units) Simply the option of using the opponent's weapons should be there if you ask me..

 

Oh, and as for distance travelled of bolts vs arrows, bolts are less accurate and have a lower range because they're shorter and less aerodynamic.

 

Oh, and I like climbing! Climbing rocks! I don't remember the debate about climbing gloves; why did you decide against them?

 

Oh, did you notice that every paragraph began with "oh?"

[New Horizon]

Oh, and I like climbing! Climbing rocks! I don't remember the debate about climbing gloves; why did you decide against them?

 

Feature discussions amongst the team are internal, hence why you don't remember the debate. We decided against them because we have rope arrows, and as I mentioned an alternative tool for vertical climbing.

[FishFace]

I had assumed as such

 

Alternative vertical climbing apparatus, huh... Sounds amusing. With luck, some level dev will lend a hand with the climbing gloves, so we can have an implementation that isn't botched, unlike in TDS... I guess it's no debate (?) that rope arrows were better than TDS climbing gloves.

[_Atti_]

about rope..the worst thing (corcerning realism) about it is how the player carries the rope all the way with him..even if its some extra thin,extra strong rope its a lot of space if he wants to carry enough of it..

 

an idea its all theory cause i dont fully know our limitations..

 

we should place ropes on the map or if the thief brought any with him than its shall be at his feat at the start..these he could carry in his hands..he could still loot,and sneak as usual but not shooting and bjing etc..so you would need to drop it if you want that.. once dropped player could use it to attach with arrow/bolt and use it at place..or pick it up again in hands for carrying

 

something like that would solve the problem with limiting too.. also you could perhaps find ropes with different lenghts on the maps..and if you shoot it in the wrong place...than grab a broadhead and shoot the top of it and it would fall..(only the top...no tearing..that would be impossible i guess) and you could attach it to another arrow/bolt and try again..)

 

d3 has an advanced physics system i dont think that would be impossible..howver i guess..very hard

[bob_arctor]

I think it would be easiest to keep the rope arrow nice and simple, so as not to confuse the Thief community and put all creative effort into this new unknown method of climbing. If it's good enough we will all forget about rope arrows.

[_Atti_]

yeah i too think that a normal old rope arrow or bolt arrow would be fine..my idea was for those who think things should be more realistic

[FishFace]

If it's too unrealistic, all it needs is some properly magical graphics and animations, and a suitable magical explanation in the loadout screen. Growing vines have been suggested - this would definitely be suitable if you ask me. Perhaps the arrow is held into the wood by vines, or there's a magical forcefield-looking effect at the tip. When the rope disappears it glows briefly then fades - anything that cues the user to believe it's magical, not that it's unexplainable.

[ironpants]

Oh. Pounds in the Uk (unit of mass not force though...) is lb. Ei 126lb is 126 pounds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but you won't see a "45lbs" draw weight mark on a bow - it'll be "45#"

 

I wasn't aware that # = lbs was so esoteric; any archer will certainly know what I was talking about.

[New Horizon]

It will be a good old fashioned rope arrow. Nice and simple.

[Ombrenuit]

Thank god rope arrows will be normal . I hate how people are honestly going in and thinking of how to make the game that realistic. For pity's sake, it is a game! We never cared how Garrett could carry 50 pounds of loot on him and it didn't slow him down in T:DP, we won't care in the Dark Mod!

Edited August 9, 2005 by Ombrenuit

[obscurus]

We never cared how Garrett could carry 50 pounds of loot on him and it didn't slow him down in T:DP, we won't care in the Dark Mod! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I did and I do!

 

...but I am content to mod the mod until I get what I want out of it

 

While I thought TDP, TMA and TDS were all great games (and they have a very special place in my games collection), they were far from perfect as far as what I want in a game, and I aim to use TDM to make what I see as improvements on the original, and cut out the bits in Thief I didn't like. But since that is not to everyones taste, and it takes a fair bit of work, I won't push the issue any more (much), since theDM devs have pretty much decided on what they want TDM to be at this stage, and accomodating everyone's peculiar tastes is not feasible. So for all those realism nuts like me, I think you are going to have to do a bit of work on your own to modify the Dark Mod toolkit to produce the level of realism you are looking for...

[Domarius]

Its important to get the essentials working first. T2 rope arrow is nice and simple in concept. I'm already having difficulty just working out how to detect collision with it, while still alowing the player to intersect with it.

 

So even though it seems simple its already complex enough to try and attempt.

 

So for all those realism nuts like me, I think you are going to have to do a bit of work on your own to modify the Dark Mod toolkit to produce the level of realism you are looking for...

You're not wrong. There is a reason we aren't taking on the huge task of trying to make a Thief virtual reality simulator and all the gameplay problems that will subsequently need to be dealt with.

 

It's always like this - add more realism, break part of the gameplay, add more realism to compensate, break another part of the gameplay, etc. etc.