Worst Movies Ever

[Domarius]

Maximus, I would have been annoyed with that ending. Since you explained it I understand it better, but I still think leaving your wife and kids destitute just so you can prove a stupid point is dumb

 

Is there a deep meaningful reason why that girl jumped off the cliff at the end of Crouching Tiger? A lot of that must have gone over my head, cause I thought the movie really sucked as a whole. That scene in particular made no sense to me - for me it seemed like - ah, happy ending, the lovers are together. Oh wait, happy endings suck, I better kill myself.

[Maximius]

Maximus, I would have been annoyed with that ending.  Since you explained it I understand it better, but I still think leaving your wife and kids destitute just so you can prove a stupid point is dumb

 

Is there a deep meaningful reason why that girl jumped off the cliff at the end of Crouching Tiger? A lot of that must have gone over my head, cause I thought the movie really sucked as a whole.  That scene in particular made no sense to me - for me it seemed like - ah, happy ending, the lovers are together.  Oh wait, happy endings suck, I better kill myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I dont think he was leaving his family destitute per say but your point is still valid. But its a question of whats a stupid point. To you and I dying versus saying sorry and getting on with life is a no-brainer because there are a very few things (I suspect) that you or I would be willing to give our lives up for and rightfully so. But we are not Rikyu, we cannot know what compromising himself and his art meant to him. For some people, being forced to compromise would be a kind of death, perhaps one worse than actually dying. And remember that we view life and death much differently than someone from 16th century Japan did.

 

I thought the girl at the end of Tiger/Dragon flew away, not fell to her death. Its been a while since I watched it though.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Maximius

[sparhawk]

I think that dying may be prefereable to not being able to live with yourself anymore. What such a reason could be is highly subjective though, and of course also depends on the time and culture. The reason why this guy suicided weas certainly not because he couldn't say "I'm sorry", it was probably more because of his internal experience, what this all entails.

[Maximius]

I think that dying may be prefereable to not being able to live with yourself anymore. What such a reason could be is highly subjective though, and of course also depends on the time and culture. The reason why this guy suicided weas certainly not because he couldn't say "I'm sorry", it was probably more because of his internal experience, what this all entails.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I should point out too that according to a brief search of Web histories about Rikyu, the precise reason he was ordered to commit suicide is unknown. SOme say he pissed off Hideyoshi because he had a statue of himself erected which was above his station. This is mentioned in the movie, but I guess the director (an artist himself of pretty high renown) wanted to use the story of Rikyu to hi-light the struggle between personal integrity/artistic expression and political power.

 

The character of Rikyu goes on at some length to explain his reasoning, which can be summed up fairly well by the notion that he could not face life as a compromised artist. Art wasnt something that these people did for fun, or simple amusement, especially at the level practiced by Rikyu. It was central to the political and cultural identity of Japanese elites. Rikyu may have felt that to betray his artistic integrity, he would have been betraying an ANCIENT tradition that was far bigger and more important (in their eyes) than an individual life.

[Domarius]

Okay well at least it can be justified at some level

[obscurus]

A lot of societies would be baffled and disturbed by the extreme levels of individualism displayed by modern Western societies - there was a time when people were expected to put their society first, but now in the cult of the individual, it is expected that people will look out for number one, and screw everyone else. This is unfortunate, because a cohesive, stable civilisation demands that people cede their individuality to a large degree (at least in public) to the greater good of society. This is why democracy is starting to fail in countries like the USA and Australia for example: because we pursue our own interests without regard to how our actions affect others, and each of us develops wildly divergent interests, we lack the cohesiveness and comonality, the shared outlook that makes democracy work.

 

The freedom to be and individual comes with it the responsibility to show restraint and curb excesses of individualism, and to be mindful that you are a lesser part of a greater whole.

 

What does this have to do with Rikyu?

Well, he was dividing his loyalties in a way that was a no-win situation: to the Hideyoshi he was putting his individualism above the stability of his society, and was threatening to cause turmoil and dissent through his art. But from his perspective, it was his duty to his art and himself to express himself honestly and with integrity. So he couldn't live with himself by being respectful to his society (or more specifically, the power structures of that society), and he couldn't be true to himself and be allowed to live by his society.

 

Basically, it show what happens when people are unable to compromise, to reach the common ground that binds a society together, and by killing himself, Rikyu took the only option available to him that approximated the common ground neither he nor the Hideyoshi could find.

Well, I am not suggesting that we go to the extreme level of denying the individual as the mediaeval Japanese did, but people need to need to keep in mind the balance between their interests and the interests of others, and be willing to compromise, if we want have a functional society, and to avoid backing ourselves into stupid corners like poor Rikyu...

[Domarius]

Hey Spar, I just saw Willy Wonka, and I was trying to pick the part that you had to take your child out of the movie for.

 

(I made spoiler text by making the text white, I think you should be able to see it by highlighting as usual)

 

Was it:

(my first choice) Veruca Salt being attacked by the squirrels?

 

or:

(my second choice) The puppets burning and melting away with their eyeballs falling out?

[sparhawk]

Hey Spar, I just saw Willy Wonka, and I was trying to pick the part that you had to take your child out of the movie for.

 

And? How did you like it?

 

Neither, nor.

 

It was:

The part when the german boy fell in the river of chocolate. First it looked as if he drowns, and with the chocolate all over him he looked rather ugly. But the real problem came when he was sucked up in that tube. His face was all covered with chocolate and it was also distortated because of the tube. That did it, so we had to leave.

[Domarius]

Hah, I would never have picked that.

 

I liked it overall.

 

I was hoping they would stick more closely to the book though. But they kind of went halfway between the book and the old movie. What I liked most was the "disturbing" stuff thrown in, the puppets melting and they're eyes falling out, and the first moment you see Wonka go "Dad... papa...?" like he is disturbed, and everyone is thinking "whoa... this guy has problems..." heheh. Because I felt those things were done in a humourous way - how its meant to be fun and playful but in reality is isn't quite so. I don't quite remember the ending of the book but this ending was more satisfying than the old movie. I really liked the part where the boy asks if his family can come, and Wonka says happily "Oh, my dear boy! Of course they can't."

[Ishtvan]

The second book was pretty trippy. Vermicious Knids, space hotel.

[Maximius]

Willy Wonka and the Great Glass Elevator! Pretty wild stuff, people getting gobbled up by the Knids.

[Ombrenuit]

For me it was Battlefield Earth...look it up if you havn't heard of it; it's god awful. However, I have this gut feeling that Doom the movie is going to be up there on the worst movies ever list.

[Macsen]

There's this movie I hate called Twin Town. It wouldn't be so bad but my friends love it, watch it all the time, and quote it often. It stinks, arrgh.

 

I didn't think much of Ring Two personally. I didn't get why she didn't just keep the evil Samara posessed child - it was cheerful, rosy cheeked, called her mom, threatened anyone who pestered her with needles and super psychic powers. The other kid was a misrable little git.

 

I liked Independence Day when it came out (I was about 15), then hated it more and more as I grew up, but now love it again because it's so cheesy and stupid it plays like the best satire since Dr Strangelove.

 

Armageddon has everything I hated about 'ID4' (shudder). Jingoistic old farts riding their phallic spaceships up the universes anus. My flatmate used to play that awful Aerosmith song as torture. How did that big mouthed thing spawn Liv Tyler?

 

Schindler's List - it's all in black and white, then he throws in this red coated girl and ruins it all. I demand monochromatic consistency! (I'm kidding, this is a great film.)