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Picked Up Farcry


Maximius

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One of my questions about the Mod has been answered, I had wanted to make a mostly vertical map, The Tower of Time, with a lot of climbing and balancing acts as you move up to the top. I was not sure that D3 editor would support a several story tower, I guess its not really a problem. I could make several several story towers if I was so inclined!!

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The problem with D3 is, that people confuse the game D3 with the engine D3. The game didn't feature wide open spaces, because it didn't really fit the setting, and therfore the legend was born, that the engine D3 is not capable of rendering large outdoor areas. Maybe this is also because some poeple thought this is a good argument for bashing D3 against HL2.

Gerhard

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You're right. The D3 setting didn't really allow for expansive spaces (though Hell was very impressive), which i think the game might have benefitted from. The Mars space station felt like one big maintenance crawl space, hardly suitable for anyone to live in.

 

I wonder how the F.E.A.R engine might have catered for the Darkmod. The ambience is dark enough, and some of the special effects were awesome; the demo managed to scare the sh*t out of me. And it already comes with support for a whole truckload of spooky stuff like freaky ghosts walking on the ceiling and invisible baddies that i'd just love to put in a Thief FM :P

 

I don't know whether it has quite as an accessible SDK as Doom 3 does however; and of course it hasn't even been released yet which makes me happy you guys chose the D3 engine for the darkmod. Otherwise i'd be old and grey before i'd even get a chance to learn how to map my Thief FM :D

Edited by SplaTtzZ
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Personally I didn't consider Farcry because D3 offers a lot more features that are nice than Farcry does. Does Farcray also have an SDK? I never really looked into Farcry that much, so part of the decision was also because I didn't even think about Farcry for modding. :)

 

Yup, they released the SDK quite some time ago. Before doom 3 I believe. I suggested the cryengine for a Thief mod on the Ion boards before they shut down. I recall being shot down. :)

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There is a caveat that I've noticed about large maps in D3 though... The amount of time it takes to calculate the AAS (AI awareness system) seems to be proportional to the volume of travelable space in the level, so a level with that much open space takes FOREVER to compile if you have an AI in it. Of course, for a game like TDM, I don't think there are flying enemies, so in a map with large open skies you could probably put a clip brush in the sky, covering areas you don't expect the player/monsters to be able to get to, in order to cut down on compile times. I should also note that I don't have much experience with AAS, so there may be other better ways of decreasing compile times.

 

As for Farcry, I played through on medium and really enjoyed it. The game was stunningly beautiful, the AI was great and on medium it seemed to have just the right difficulty - it was tough and I usually died a couple of times for each checkpoint, but not enough to make it boring. (though I found the final boss to be very difficult, they had enough sense to place a checkpoint right before battling him) With the lack of quicksaving I found myself just enjoying the game more rather than trying to conserve ammo, and was terrified to enter mutant-monkey-infested jungles at nightime. Also, I think people who like Thief would love farcry - aside from having stealth combat with wonderful AI (I thought it was perhaps the best I've seen in an FPS), it's loads of fun going level spelunking in farcry levels. I was often able to figure out how to climb into areas I wasn't supposed to (and was rewarded with great vistas), and there were even a few levels where I was able to bypass entire sections by climbing over the right mountain range. The only thing that really bugged me about farcry was the water reflection bug (things below water would appear in reflections, which looked wrong).

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Are you sure that's HDR? Cause i'll be damned if that doesn't look exactly like bloom.

 

Oh, and of the three games listed, i'de pick Farcry, both Pariah and ARea 51 were mediocre at best, and Farcry at least adds some free roaming and deeper stragety to it's standard FPS fare.

Then they put those stupid mutant monkeys in... :rolleyes:

 

 

Well problem solved, as I mentioned Farcry at work, and one of my colleagues has the full game.

 

So now the question is should I get Pariah or Area 51?

Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!
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The problem with D3 is, that people confuse the game D3 with the engine D3. The game didn't feature wide open spaces, because it didn't really fit the setting, and therfore the legend was born, that the engine D3 is not capable of rendering large outdoor areas. Maybe this is also because some poeple thought this is a good argument for bashing D3 against HL2.

 

 

Most FPS game engines can allow you to make a massive room and fill it with a few blocks, but not so many allow you to quickly paint a landscape, and add geometry like trees, rocks etc procedurally or by painting them (Unreal and CryEngines are the only ones that come to mind), so while you can make large outdoor areas in the D3 engine, I suspect that the polycount is quite limited, and judging from the framerate in that screenshot posted by Gildoran, it will fall over very quickly if you start adding a few AI, fine detail, lots of textures etc. Wheras the CryEngine can render huge areas covered in trees, rocks (or with some modding, mediaeval buildings and wide open cityscapes) with much more playable framerates than D3. I am still very sceptical of the D3 engine's suitability for landscape rendering - I know it can do it, but how well really? I guess I will find out when I start playing with it. :) I'm not bashing D3, I'm just saying I think the Cryengine would make for a very nice Thief-based mod.

 

I do agree that the biggest problem I have with the CryEngine is the dependence on 3rd party modelling software like Maya or 3DS Max for basic geometry creation... you do appear to be somewhat limited in that respect.

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The upcoming game Prey is based on an "enhanced" D3 engine and has shown some pretty impressive outdoor scenes. It's also got a space flight section of the game as well, and in the video you can see orbiting around fairly large spheres, then landing on the surface, fighting, going inside, etc. Here's a link to the Gamespot section for it:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/prey/index.html?q=prey

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Yup, they released the SDK quite some time ago. Before doom 3 I believe. I suggested the cryengine for a Thief mod on the Ion boards before they shut down. I recall being shot down. :)

 

Don't worry. Non-programmers are not really fit to evaluate an engine for a mod. Gamers just look at a specific game and then think, if the game itself is different from another one, then you can't do it. That's why everybody thinks that D3 can not do big outdoor areas. You have to evaluate an engine on a purely technical level, and of course in case of modders, also on the supported infrastrcuture. A game that is VERY similar to Thief is of no use for a Thief mod, if the available tools don't allow the changes required to make Thief style FMs out of it. :)

Gerhard

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There is a caveat that I've noticed about large maps in D3 though... The amount of time it takes to calculate the AAS (AI awareness system) seems to be proportional to the volume of travelable space in the level, so a level with that much open space takes FOREVER to compile if you have an AI in it.

 

For gamers this is not really a problem, because they wont notice this. Of course for a mapper it might get annoying. :)

Gerhard

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I am still very sceptical of the D3 engine's suitability for landscape rendering - I know it can do it, but how well really? I guess I will find out when I start playing with it. :) I'm not bashing D3, I'm just saying I think the Cryengine would make for a very nice Thief-based mod.

 

Why does this matter? Thief style maps are by their very nature not really wide and open. Most of the time it doesn't make sense. Also you can't judge the framerate for an unfinished testmap against a polished release version of the same map. Dram, one of our mappers also presented us a really big map (only the first part though, so it's still growing, and it had frameratedrops. With some simple adjustements we already gained about 5FPS in the most problematic areas, and this is only the tip of the iceberg. Granted, this can't be really compared, because his map is a traditional Thief map, but the outdoor area is also not THAT small and there are no problems so far. And we already have soundpropagation in this map running with several AI running around as well and the lightgem also doing it's stuff. So I don't expect any bad surprises by now, because these three are the biggest performance killers.

Gerhard

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There is a caveat that I've noticed about large maps in D3 though... The amount of time it takes to calculate the AAS (AI awareness system) seems to be proportional to the volume of travelable space in the level, so a level with that much open space takes FOREVER to compile if you have an AI in it.

When i made a massive open space just for test, the aas compile took only a little while. I think that if the huge area is complex (as in building all over the place) then it will take long. But i usually leave my map to compile while i go watch tv or just listen to music (or read the forums). Since the mansion i'm making is gettting more and more complex, it is taking heaps longer to compile, but the overall space taken is large, but not huge - yet ;) .

 

I think that doom3 was a good choice for darkmod, cos its easy to add textures/particles/models/sounds etc, and it can render huge scenes - i've tried ;) . The way you optimize these huge outdoor city scenes, is that you have doors on each house thats enterable, and have either opaque windows or blinds which block your view etc. something in that sense.

 

Unfortunately i think we're the only big mod left that's modding for doom3. Still interesting why if you ask me.

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Unfortunately i think we're the only big mod left that's modding for doom3. Still interesting why if you ask me.

 

I guess the other mods may think the same. :)

 

Seriously. Just because there is not that much activity on D3world, it doesn't mean that all mods have died down. Most of them are probably deep in development and don't waste time with continously posting, just as we also don't do this. Of course there is a natural tendency for bigger mods to dye out more easily, but I don't thinkt hat all of them have died. :)

Gerhard

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I guess the other mods may think the same.

 

Seriously. Just because there is not that much activity on D3world, it doesn't mean that all mods have died down. Most of them are probably deep in development and don't waste time with continously posting, just as we also don't do this. Of course there is a natural tendency for bigger mods to dye out more easily, but I don't thinkt hat all of them have died.

 

Development takes hours and hours of pain-staking work and unless making the game IS your job it could take a very long time to fit all that work into your busy schedule, believe me I know. :)

Edited by AtariThief
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Which ones are the TC? I only know about Sapphire Scar. Lately I looked at their forum, but it was like always. They are saing they have nailed down the story and will start on the actual work. I have read the same half a year ago, so I don't know what progress they really make or if the project is more dead than alive. Apart from this one, I only know Tyrots project where I know it is on hold for now.

Gerhard

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Finally made it into the carrier, what a blast it was fighting my way in! Before I entered it I took one of those patrol boats with the rockets and the machine gun and boldly headed out to open waters to battle the attack helicopter! Forward to glorious victory!

 

After being annihilated, I entered the ship. I found a few flaws with the AIs, for one thing they cannot seem to avoid falling of of ledges into water, at least they swim around and can still fight rather than simply drowning. I took out 2/3ds of the first level simply by waiting for them to fall into the water then hacking them up with the machete. I wish they could swim, that would be deluxe, but baby steps I guess. I noticed that the AIs dont climb ladders either, something Id like to see more of... ;) Also, I found that I would fight in one section, then move a few doors away and find mercs playing cards and lounging as if they could not hear the gunplay two rooms over. I'd like to see something a little tighter, if Im on the boat and killing mercs they should ALL be on alert 100%. But that seems like something easy to remedy.

 

But the fighting is a lot of fun. One memorable scene, a dude ran out of that torpedo room right as I dropped a nade into the doorway. It blew him out of the doorway in an arc about 8 feet high and he came to rest hanging across the railing. Very nice effects

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