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#51 Dram

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 06:13 PM

Guys, dont forget the most important reasons of the sword and bow. Rope arrows, water arrows, noise arrows, etc. And the sword is for smashing things like boxes out of the way or killing them friggin spiders, and sometimes as a distraction for the guards (hit a wall, "Hey, what was that?"). Not always are they used to kill ;)

#52 heXen

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 06:27 PM

A much better thing to hit the wall with is the hammer. The whole block will wake up.
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#53 obscurus

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 09:36 PM

Of course people want variety in their gameplay - that's why their are such a wide variety of games to choose from.
It doesn't mean we have to squeeze all that variety into one game.



Precisely.

#54 heXen

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 09:39 PM

Well, my dream is a game that has everything in it - serious slashing and bashing, stealth, magic and fantasy, storyline, role-playing, strategy, riddles and puzzles. The closest games were heXen and somewhere Giants Citizen Cabuto. But I suppose such game is impossible for the next 50 years.
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#55 FishFace

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 01:29 AM

There's not much that separates non stop sneaking from non stop killing. While I prefer Thief to Doom, that doesn't mean all that should be present is sneaking, because it will get boring. Something needs to be in there for a bit of spice, change the pace and so on. Remember why Doom sucked - because it was all the same.
Admittedly, they had a more boring subject matter to begin with, but it's all part of game design. If it's not going to be weapons and items to provide an alternative to sneaking, what's it going to be?
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#56 oDDity

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 02:38 AM

And thats' where you're argument is fundamentally flawed, because simply adding killing to a game does not make it more interesting when you can already knock people out, both from range and with melee.
Killing them and knocking them out are so similar gameplaywise, that having the choice makes zero difference in this case.
Whether you kill someone with a broadhead or knock them out with a gas arrow, wheter you sneak up behind them and cut their throat with a dagger or whether you blackjack them after sneaking up makes no difference, because exactly the same gamepley mechanics are involved in both methods.

Well, my dream is a game that has everything in it - serious slashing and bashing, stealth, magic and fantasy, storyline, role-playing, strategy, riddles and puzzles. The closest games were heXen and somewhere Giants Citizen Cabuto. But I suppose such game is impossible for the next 50 years.


Sounds good, but wouldn't work, just like mashing all your favorite foods up on the one plate wouldn't work.
THey may taste beautiful separately, but together they'd taste like a big disgusting mess.
I've yet to see a game where they've successfully managed to fit two genres together, nevermind half a dozen.
Certainly all my favourite games have been pure pedigree genres.
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#57 sparhawk

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 04:03 AM

If they are chasing you it's because of their own free will *hehe*. So you get no penality for killing them. It's their problem if they can't swim and follow you in the deep water. :)
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#58 FishFace

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 12:10 PM

And thats' where you're argument is fundamentally flawed, because simply adding killing to a game does not make it more interesting when you can already knock people out, both from range and with melee.
Killing them and knocking them out are so similar gameplaywise, that having the choice makes zero difference in this case.
Whether you kill someone with a broadhead or knock them out with a gas arrow, wheter you sneak up behind them and cut their throat with a dagger or whether you blackjack them after sneaking up makes no difference, because exactly the same gamepley mechanics are involved in both methods.


That's a) subjective and B) not the whole argument. Variety is more than adding alternative methods to whack people, it's about variety of gameplay. That said, I do see your point, oDD; hopefully TDM will have enough variety from different level design techniques without having to resort to allowing less stealth.
And with THAT said, I still support the idea of a weapon that'll get you out of a sticky situation, because it's unrealistic for a thief that good to be arrogant enough to believe himself better.

Sounds good, but wouldn't work, just like mashing all your favorite foods up on the one plate wouldn't work.
THey may taste beautiful separately, but together they'd taste like a big disgusting mess.
I've yet to see a game where they've successfully managed to fit two genres together, nevermind half a dozen.
Certainly all my favourite games have been pure pedigree genres.


While not necessarily 'pedigree' - for example, a well blended mix of stealth and action, it is necessary for gameplay to be appropriate and balanced. Clearly, an arcade game and a WWII simulator do not work together, so just a big mish-mash of genres will suck. You need to at the most pick a few, if not just one.
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#59 heXen

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 03:09 PM

Well, heXen was based action, had some RPG, had some puzzle elements, and it was OK. I think if the RPG system would have been improved to TES style, puzzles of myst/siberia level, I don't think it would be a catastrophe. Only a game mix must have a base, and I prefer action base. So, like in the planned Oblivion, you have action/RPG game. Add heXen ideas - Abyss creatures, wraithwerges, quartz flasks, heXen world, in other words, and we get a Oblivion/Puzle mix. Why not? Why isn't it possible? I'm not saying - rapidly! Just slow advance. First heXen was almost out of RPG. HeXen II already had health increasing over time. I don't think that gradual mixes are impossible.
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#60 oDDity

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 05:40 PM

Puzzles have always been part of RPGs, even in the days before computer games when you had to buy a book, there was always puzzles to solve, so the puzzle RPG isn't a genre mix.
As for action/RPG, that's a very tough thing to distinguish. All RPGs have some action and fighitng in them, some more, some less, so where do you draw the line between an RPG with puzzles and action in it, and a puzzle/RPG hybrid or a puzzle/action hybrid.
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#61 heXen

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 07:32 PM

What RPG's do you know that have puzzles?

Well, if we take NWN, fighting is zero there, if we take Diablo, DS, Allods, Morrowind - chance-to-hit. That's not proper fighting. If we take Gothic, only regular sword/bow, slasher, not action. Fable - same thing. BoD, Rune - all slashers. And I'm talking about action.
May the Abyss rule!

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#62 oDDity

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 03:26 AM

What RPG's do you know that have puzzles?


The best game ever made, Baldur's Gate 2 for a start. THere were lots of riddles and puzzles in that, but it's defifntely a pure RPG based heavily in the D&D world.


Well, if we take NWN, fighting is zero there, if we take Diablo, DS, Allods, Morrowind - chance-to-hit. That's not proper fighting. If we take Gothic, only regular sword/bow, slasher, not action. Fable - same thing. BoD, Rune - all slashers. And I'm talking about action.


I'm not sure what your definition of 'action' is there. Surely something like Gothic or Morrowind, in which the melee and archery is basically an FPS (first person slasher and shooter) is full of realtime 'action' as opposed to dice rolls. How much damge you do depends not only on the weapon but on your stats, but it's still the same kind of action you get in a shooter, and requires some twitch skills. Now all of the blows you land do damage based on your ability stats, but you can still dodge in and out in real time, it is not forced turn based combat.
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#63 Domarius

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:05 AM

Hexen, you like Hexen AND Giants?? You rock. Me and my 2 brothers still play Giants on our LAN. Me as the Reaper and those two as two meccs on the same team (cause reaper is so powerful, and the giant is useless to play as).

#64 Maximius

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:09 AM

Hexen, I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but along with Thief 1/2 being incredible games, there are hundreds of megs of fan missions for T2. T1 has some fan missions but not as many, I think they are harder to make in T1. So if you drop 20$ U.S. for T2, you are actually getting +YEARS+ of fresh gameplay. And many of the fan missions are top notch too, better than the games in fact. Im not sure if the fan missions for T2 are readily interchangable with TGold, I assume they are though.

Check out this site:

http://thiefmissions.com/

and you will get an idea of the quantity of fan missions out there.

#65 heXen

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 07:04 PM

I'm on second level of TDP and you want me to get T2 and fan missions for it!? Let me finish something first.

To Oddity - that's not exactly what I meant. In Morrowind there is only 3 types of weapons - melee, ranged, and magic. So is Gothic. A slasher is a game centered on melee and only raw melee. GOthic is close, and morrowind turns into one if you play fighter. There are no magical effects on weapons themselves. In heXen there is Timons axe, which summons some energy on impact at close range. After the power of the weapon depletes, the axe is just an axe. Maybe you can go to a shop and recharge it - if it'll be RPG. Another thing - hammer of retribution - it's thrown, and then explodes, and a hexen II axe starts rocking around walls.

And a ranged - heretic ethereal crossbow weapon was made from doom shotgun, but seems to be quite different. It shoots three arrows, one powerful, two less, and they fly somewhere. It creates interesting effects because they fly off quite randomly.

And enemies - heXen had centaurs who block with their shield, so if you shoot at them at the wrogn moment, it will backfire. Upgraded centaurs even shot from shields. Stalkers swam in swamps, they were invincible in it - but if you come near, they jump out when you are least expecting them - and then it's the question of reaction. You hit them, or they hit you and dive in swamp to wait for a better possibility. Wendigos shoot blue stars that break in 10 which fly at deifferent directions from impact. Iron liches summoned small short-lasting tornados...

Well, heXen has dozens of ideas to be implemented, but for that I have to give you a designdoc of this heXen world RPG idea, which I sure don't think you want to read... :D

Yep, I love Giants. Please stop talking about multiplayer - I never played it, and I actually want to, so reminding me that I can't play s not very good.

A question about modding - I got myself a ZBrush 2 thing, heXen EoC use them - is that thing any use? It looks like texture and model creator or something. Can I make 3D-models there and put them in some game?

Edited by heXen, 13 October 2005 - 07:33 PM.

May the Abyss rule!

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#66 Domarius

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 01:32 AM

Well even if you have a 56k mode, you might find the odd giants server running on gamespy. (I think it's gamespy.)

Well one day we were playing Giants on our LAN, forgot we left our 56k modem connected, and then this person joins... wtf??? Man we were shocked. And then another person joins, and then another... we were "accidently" playing with people in our personal LAN game on the other side of the world with our 56k modem!!! Isn't technology amazing??

#67 heXen

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 06:39 AM

It's noy internet that's the problem. But games. My UT says code invalid. My AoE Conquerors asks CD when it's already inside. MY Quake III has no CD-key. Heretic II area empty. heXen area empty. The only thing I played online is Diablo, but I got bored because a game lasts no longer than half-an-hour.
May the Abyss rule!

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#68 Forsaken

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 02:45 PM

People, can anyone give me a link to a DooM 3 tutorial for complete dumies?
Too late to save us but try to understand
The seas were empty -- there was hunger in the land
We let the madmen write the golden rules
We were just Children of the Moon
We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Children, Children of the Moon watch the world go by
Children, Children of the Moon are hiding from the Sun and the Sky

© The Alan Parsons Project - Children of the Moon

#69 sparhawk

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 04:58 PM

What kind of tutorial? How to play it? How to install it? ...
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#70 Macsen

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 06:34 PM

People, can anyone give me a link to a DooM 3 tutorial for complete dumies?


Try to google the fucker before wasting time here.

#71 Forsaken

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 09:24 PM

I tried to google it, but at the sites I found there were so many different tutorials with unfamiliar names that I was lost. I just need some kind of tutorial so I can get around the editor, I can't even make a room there, I just don't know which button to press.

To sparrowhawk - usually, I place people who joke like that in ignore lists. You know perfectly well that I finished DooM 3 and I was asking about how to get in the editor before when I was still named heXen.
Too late to save us but try to understand
The seas were empty -- there was hunger in the land
We let the madmen write the golden rules
We were just Children of the Moon
We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Children, Children of the Moon watch the world go by
Children, Children of the Moon are hiding from the Sun and the Sky

© The Alan Parsons Project - Children of the Moon

#72 Dram

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 02:00 AM

Here is the shortcut i use for doom3ed:

"D:\Games\Doom3\Doom3.exe +disconnect +set r_gamma 1 +set r_brightness 1 +set r_mode 5 +set r_fullscreen 0 +set r_multiSamples 0 +editor"

You can find many doom3 editing tutorials at www.doom3world.org.

Hope this helps :)

#73 sparhawk

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 03:57 AM

To sparrowhawk - usually, I place people who joke like that in ignore lists. You know perfectly well that I finished DooM 3 and I was asking about how to get in the editor before when I was still named heXen.


Are we in a bad mood today? :rolleyes: -_-

Also it's SPARHAWK, not sparrowhawk, there is no such thing as a sparrowhawk. <_<

D3world Tutorial Index
Gerhard

#74 Dram

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 05:14 AM

lol, now we know what to call him to get him shitty :laugh:

#75 Macsen

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 09:21 AM

If I recall correctly from my sex education classes in high school, Forsaken is at the peak of a monthly cycle, unique to the fairer sex, that turns her into a slavering, gibbering she-wolf. That's why she called you Sparrowhawk, it's so hard to type with paws.

(i'm joking, don't put me on your ignore list o' doom)




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