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Rl "water Arrow"?


Ishtvan

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We've had all these debates about "realistic" vs. "magic" arrows, maybe something like this could work for a real water arrow. Odd mentioned foam before, so props to him. Note how much volume the two components take up to start with, that could easily be fit into two chambers of a special arrowhead that mix together on impact:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1775983120224943095

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It was gel I wanted.

Foam wouldn't be any better thasn water, since this would still make a hissing noise and leave a mess, whereas gel would be slow and almost silently smother the flame, and it would also leave no splash evidence on the wall or floor, if it hardened when exposed to the air.

You also wouldn't need anywhere near as much gel either ,as opposed to water or foam, since you only need enough to coat the head of the torch, so it would easilt fit in the head of an arrow. NO magic required.

You would have to be more accurate with your shot, but all the benefits outweigh the that.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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We're not talking about an additional arow, we're talking about replacing the water arrow - or rather coming up with our own design for an arrow that extinquishes flames.

A gas arrow wouldn't work, since you'd have to continuously spray the flame for a period of time with a high concentration of the gas before it would go out, and powder wouldn't work, because too much is required, and powder doesn't flow.

ANyway, it would probably be a bonus to shoot gel at an electric fire and blow the fusebox for the whole building.

And how do you intend to put the gel over the flame? You don't have that much control over it.

 

It's so obvious I didn't think I had to explain it, but for any Austrians who might be reading this:

I already said you'd have to be more accurate with your shot. You have to hit at the highest part of the torch, the forward momentum of the sac full of gel will carry some of the gel forward when it bursts, and gravity will do the rest to let it ooze down over the torch and smother it..

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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And for some Irish people with straw where their brain would be. Your chances to actually put out a candle, much less a torch, with such accuracy are more than slim, unless you propose you stand next to it, in which case you can just as well try to blow it out. You might succeed on the candles though with the blowing out.

Gerhard

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That's the worst critique of an idea in the entire history of the universe.

'Uhh...it wouldn't work because...ummm...like, you might not hit it right and stuff'

The idea works, the accuracy is up to the skill of the archer.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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That's the worst critique of an idea in the entire history of the universe.

 

It is perfectly reasonable to dismiss an idea on the grounds that it is not realistically feasible, even though it may not technically be impossible.

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Look at a candle and how small it is. Look at a torch, it's not THAT big either. And now assume that you try to hit that mark from quite some distance, with such accuracy that a tiny probe of gel would properly be spilled.

 

I mean: Of course it could be an explanation, as long as you don't insist on it being realistic, because it isn't.

Gerhard

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Robin Hodd is just a story. This is the real life. :)

 

 

Ever watch the TV show Mythbusters?

 

One episode they set out to test the myth that Robin Hood could split an arrow down the middle with another arrow. They busted the myth (the prooperties af the arrow make it impossible for the arrow to be split, even at point blank range in a confined tube), but they did show that there are some spectacularly accurate archers out there: they had footage of archers shooting a piece of taut string from twenty feet and cutting it in half, they showed that numerous archers can hit an arrow on the target, even though they couldn't split it, and, more interestingly, they showed that even amateurs (members of the Mythbusters crew) who had never shot an arrow before could learn to hit bullseyes within a week of practise.

 

A normal bradhead would be enough to extinguish a candle by merely passing close to it - the partial vacuum left by the passing arrow will put the flame out.

 

oDDity's idea is perfectly sound, and any compentent archer could make the shot from quite a distance, no problems at all, unless it was very windy.

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Gel or water would work. As mentioned, foam would be highly messy so that's way outta the question, I think. Just look at that lab experiment there :) (Which is a cool vid, I've seen before, and was looking for it to show a friend a while back. Thx for posting! Does anyone know what chemicals were mixed there?) I think guards would be just a little suspicious to see foam messes everywhere, unless there's a rapid evaporation process that ensues.

 

I still like water arrows best, though. I'll never vote for gel or foam arrows no matter what.

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Obscurus, Oddity's idea is not perfectly sound. What you imply though is, that it is not even neccessary to have a water arrow at all, because you could cut the candle which would suffice to cause it to extuinguish. It's quite another story with torches though.

Gerhard

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Don't worry about these guys, obscurus, they're just diehard 'do everything exactly the way it was in Thief' blind men.

Gel arrows are obviosuly superior to water arrows in every way, but still they'll argue against them 'because they weren't in Thief'

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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The problem is that while the Thief is supposed to be a perfect marksman, the player isn't. Unless we have some auto target feature the player is more likely to keep hitting the wall behind the torch and having to reload.

 

Can we still call them water arrows though? Gel arrows doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

Oh, and can we use the slippy gel like the oil flasks in TDS? ;)

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Obscurus, Oddity's idea is not perfectly sound. What you imply though is, that it is not even neccessary to have a water arrow at all, because you could cut the candle which would suffice to cause it to extuinguish. It's quite another story with torches though.

 

 

That wasn't my implication at all. A gel arrow (water would have no effect on a flaming torch dipped in oil, other than to possiblly spread the fire around) is entirely plausible. You were claiming that it would be too hard to hit a target that small. I was pointing out that it is not that hard at all, in fact even archers of moderate competency could achieve it reasonably consistently. If a good archer can cut string at a distance where the string is barely visible, if a good archer can hit a target the size of a small coin consistently, then they can deliver a gel payload to a burning torch, which in RL would be about two inches across at the point where it is burning. That is a piece of cake for a decent archer.

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Personally, I propose a bucket of water. Totally realistic, and no more worries about why guards don't notice the leftover arrowshaft after a torch goes out. Anyone who doesn't see the brillance of this idea is obviously too in love with Thief to have an original thought in their head.

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That would be pointless, since you'd have to walk right up to the torch to use it, which defies the entire point of the exercise - if you can walk right up to the torch, you don't need to put it out.

So that idea ins't even 1% viable, which robs it of any sarcasm you thought it had..

 

As for left over gel arrow shaft, there's no reaosn why you can pick the damn thing up once you've put out the torch and have the safety of darkness around it.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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Well, we could assume that our character is pretty strong and can throw a bucket of water several meters with high accuracy. :) I think that idea is worth pursuing. :)

 

On a more serious note. It would be cool if the player could pick up a bucket with water and throw it, causing splashes, or when he turns it around.

Gerhard

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