174 replies to this topic

[Bukary]

Because T3Ed limitations (especially properties limit) will not allow me to build what I want, I started learning Radiant today. If I find this editor bearable (and that means: if I learn how to use it), I'll probably apply for Dark Mod beta mapper (if you need one more). I am familiar with DromEd and T3Ed, but I've never used Radiant or any other editor based on subtractive geometry. Examples of my work can be found in various places over the Net. I've build Old Comrades, Old Debts FM (Komag's contest 3 winner) and released Mistrz FX demo. Screenshots from my finished and unfinished projects are here.

I started this thread, because I'll probably have lots of questions regarding Radiant (DarkRadiant). I try not to ask for basic explanations (eg. how to create fog in Radiant?). I hope I'll find answers for such basic how-to questions in various tutorials. But I also hope that you won't mind me asking some questions here. First of all I'll try to figure out what is and what is not possible in this editor. I hope you'll find some time to give me short answers: yes or no (or point me in the right direction).

After starting Radiant for the first time, familiarizing myself with viewports (I don't find them "intuitive" at this moment) and reading some basic (your-first-room) tutorials, I already have some questions.

1) Can I change skins on meshes? Let's say there is one model (building) with few skins (roof, walls etc.). Can I change particular skins (eg. roof) only or am I forced to change the whole skin?

2) Can I have three viewports (top, left, right) on screen at the same time?

3) Is city mission like "Midnight in Murkbell" (huge area, lots of buildings, long views) possible in Radiant?

4) Is it possible to have meshes-buildings in Radiant? I mean meshes that are recognized by AIs as an area where they can walk, fight, patrol? Let's say I made the whole building (with floors, windows, rooms) in 3ds max. Will it work (just like building from brushes would work) in Radiant?

5) Are there any interesting or useful tweaks that I should install if I want to use Radiant? Any interface modifications?

6) Will I be able to make scripted events, if I don't know any programming language (such as C++)? I could do that easily with DromEd or T3Ed.

7) Can I move brushes in Radiant. Let's say I created few connected rooms. Can I move them left, right, up etc.? In other words, can I change something that is done without using DELETE option?

8) I know there are lots of Radiant tutorials, but are there any similar to Komag's (level creation from A to Z)?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

If you find such thread (and questions) really not appropriate here, please feel free to delete it.

Edited by Bukary, 05 March 2006 - 09:23 AM.

[New Horizon]

After starting Radiant for the first time, familiarizing myself with viewports (I don't find them "intuitive" at this moment) and reading some basic (your-first-room) tutorials, I already have some questions.

Takes some getting used to, but you can quickly switch views in the main viewport by clicking 'shift' + 'tab'. I quite like working with this system since it allows me to keep the window much larger than I can with the other windows open. There is a way to have all the windows visible.

Go into your editor.cfg file and make sure all these are set to 1.

sett radiant_XZVIS "1"
sett radiant_YZVIS "1"
sett radiant_ZVIS "1"

1) Can I change skins on meshes? Let's say there is one model (building) with few skins (roof, walls etc.). Can I change particular skins (eg. roof) only or am I forced to change the whole skin?

Yes, doom 3 radiant will let you change skins on models through a 'skin' file system. As long as the building is made up of multiple skins, you would be able to swap one skin out for another with the skin system by setting up a custom skin file for your configuration.

2) Can I have three viewports (top, left, right) on screen at the same time?

Yup, see the above fix. I would suggest trying out the single viewport first, just to see if you like it. The tutorials give you a good grounding in how to use the Z view.

3) Is city mission like "Midnight in Murkbell" (huge area, lots of buildings, long views) possible in Radiant?

Yes, but with powerful engines like this..you still have to plan your mission accordingly...otherwise, you will experience frame rate drops on lower end hardware.

4) Is it possible to have meshes-buildings in Radiant? I mean meshes that are recognized by AIs as an area where they can walk, fight, patrol? Let's say I made the whole building (with floors, windows, rooms) in 3ds max. Will it work (just like building from brushes would work) in Radiant?

You can, but in order to properly maximize performance...you would likely need to break the full model down into smaller chunks so that the engine could break it down into smaller pieces to render. I could be completely wrong about that, as I don't have the experience in mapping that some others do. They'll bring you up to speed on what is possible.

5) Are there any interesting or useful tweaks that I should install if I want to use Radiant? Any interface modifications?

I created a patch for Doom 3 Radiant that allows the Entity inspector to be minimized and I also increased the size of the model preview window, it's pretty small by default. I have to make some changes to the patch, but after that...I'll post it for you to try out.

6) Will I be able to make scripted events, if I don't know any programming language (such as C++)? I could do that easily with DromEd or T3Ed.

Check out the video tutorials on 3dbuzz. They cover quite a lot of things about the Radiant editor and have a tutorial dedicated to scripting. The scripting language is extremely flexible. I haven't looked into the scripting system 'yet', but I'm pretty sure that we will provide pre-made scripts, much like in T1 and 2. The major plus to Doom 3 scripting it's not locked down like T3. You're scripts can most likely be pretty robust, but that does require learning the language....but there are great tutorials and an active community to help you out.


7) Can I move brushes in Radiant. Let's say I created few connected rooms. Can I move them left, right, up etc.? In other words, can I change something that is done without using DELETE option?

I haven't tried myself, but I am pretty sure that you can draw a simple brush around the area you want to select for movement...and use a select all inside command and everything within the brush will be highlighted and available for movement.

8) I know there are lots of Radiant tutorials, but are there any similar to Komag's (level creation from A to Z)?

The tutorials here at 3D buzz are fairly comprehensive. http://www.3dbuzz.co...sv_dl_index.php

www.doom3world.org should have some level creation tutorials, either in printed form, or on video as well.

[gleeful]

Greetings, Bukary!

There are some very nice screenshots on that page you linked to. Can't wait to see what you can do with a kick-ass engine like Doom 3's.

Kind Regards
gleeful

P.S.:

7) Can I move brushes in Radiant. Let's say I created few connected rooms. Can I move them left, right, up etc.? In other words, can I change something that is done without using DELETE option?

I haven't tried myself, but I am pretty sure that you can draw a simple brush around the area you want to select for movement...and use a select all inside command and everything within the brush will be highlighted and available for movement.

I can confirm that.

[OrbWeaver]

You are of course talking about Doom3Radiant.

DarkRadiant is only two days old.

[Gildoran]

1) Can I change skins on meshes? Let's say there is one model (building) with few skins (roof, walls etc.). Can I change particular skins (eg. roof) only or am I forced to change the whole skin?

You can change skins, and skins may change some or all of the textures on the model, but I'm not sure if it's possible to have more than one skin active at a time.

3) Is city mission like "Midnight in Murkbell" (huge area, lots of buildings, long views) possible in Radiant?

D3 can handle large areas just fine, but be sure to plan ahead and set things up so that not too much can be seen at any one time. It's not the size of things that matters, it's how much stuff is on screen.

4) Is it possible to have meshes-buildings in Radiant? I mean meshes that are recognized by AIs as an area where they can walk, fight, patrol? Let's say I made the whole building (with floors, windows, rooms) in 3ds max. Will it work (just like building from brushes would work) in Radiant?

It should be possible to make entire buildings out of models, but there are some important things to keep in mind. For AIs, you'll probably want to make a simplified collision model to help them navigate. (I don't remember how to do it, but it shouldn't be hard to find that information on D3W) I'm not sure whether the following applies only to func_statics or even to models that are compiled in to the BSP, but: models are displayed in their entirety or not at all (so using a single model for the inside of a building would likely be bad for performance since the engine couldn't cull unseen parts of the model), and I don't think they seal area flooding (which means that if you're using models to block renderer visibility, you'll probably need to use caulk behind/inside them).

6) Will I be able to make scripted events, if I don't know any programming language (such as C++)? I could do that easily with DromEd or T3Ed.

I'm a huge proponent of D3 scripting. It's easy to use, resembling a simplified version of Java/C++, and is relatively powerful - in D3, the weapons and AI are programmed using the scripting language rather than C++. D3 scripting has common operators and control flow scructures, supports functions and classes and inheritance, and its datatypes include floats, vectors, strings and entity pointers. It lacks arrays, but you can easily simulate them using settings on entities. If you're able to wrap your mind around T3ed scripting, D3 scripting will seem pleasant and straight-forward by comparison. If you're terrified of scripting, you can use the trigger/target system to do many things, and I believe the stim/response system will expand your options even further. Still, I think scripting is worth learning, as it's often the easiest and most direct way to do stuff.

[New Horizon]

You are of course talking about Doom3Radiant.

DarkRadiant is only two days old.

Bukary and I were discussing the possibility of recruiting some dromeders and T3Eders for future testing when we get DarkRadiant up to speed. Won't be for awhile yet though.

[pakmannen]

Of course you can also select a brush - and move it - without using the "select inside" command. Just shift+click a brush to select it. I suppose you must have figured that out by now though.

[Bukary]

Thanks for all replies!

The tutorials in NH's link are great! But how did they make Doom3 run (F2 key) in such small window? Some setting in AutoExec?

Are intro and outro movies (a la T1/2) possible in Radiant? And what about in-game (scripted) movies (a la TDS)?

[OrbWeaver]

Bukary and I were discussing the possibility of recruiting some dromeders and T3Eders for future testing when we get DarkRadiant up to speed. Won't be for awhile yet though.

Ah yes, I remember you mentioning you were looking for mappers for testing.

I wonder if one or two testers to would be able to get a build environment set up on Windows so that they could build and beta test from the latest SVN. Since I develop in Linux (the toolchain is just so much smoother, plus I'm in Linux for most other stuff anyway), it will be useful to have some permanent Windows testers to make sure that both platforms are functioning correctly.

I'll have a look into what is required for building on Win32, I suspect that just Scons, Subversion and the relevant devel libaries should do it.

[pakmannen]

The tutorials in NH's link are great! But how did they make Doom3 run (F2 key) in such small window? Some setting in AutoExec?
Are intro and outro movies (a la T1/2) possible in Radiant? And what about in-game (scripted) movies (a la TDS)?

Do you mean run Doom 3 in windowed mode? That's as easy as hitting alt+enter.
In-game movies (cinematics) are possible, play the first level of Doom 3 to see a few examples. (Actually, you only need to start a new game, and a cinematic sequenze will start directly).

It might be possible to play an external movie file through scripting already, but otherwise that's certainly something we will add.

[Bukary]

Do you mean run Doom 3 in windowed mode? That's as easy as hitting alt+enter.

Hmm... I don't think it's just Alt+Enter mode:



BTW, how will you handle lockpicking in DarkRadian? Will it be anything like T1/2 "boring" lockpicking? Will they be similar to TDS?

[New Horizon]

The editor uses a smaller screen mode, for running your level. Alt/ enter will bring you in and out of windowed mode when you're ingame.

BTW, how will you handle lockpicking in DarkRadian? Will it be anything like T1/2 "boring" lockpicking? Will they be similar to TDS?

I think you're getting "DarkRadiant" confused with the core project, "The Dark Mod".

Dark Radiant is just the editor that will interface with doom 3...that is if we are successful in creating a full fledged custom version of Radiant.
In Dark Mod, we plan to make lock picking more involved than T1 and T2, but it won't look like TDS since we're not supporting body awareness.

[Bukary]

The editor uses a smaller screen mode, for running your level. Alt/ enter will bring you in and out of windowed mode when you're ingame.

Thanks! The solution was simple: I just had to set FULL SCREEN to NO and resolution to 640x480.

We plan to make it more involved than T1 and T2, but it won't look like TDS since we're not supporting body awareness.

I'm really curious what you mean. But I guess it must remain a secret for now.

[New Horizon]

I'm really curious what you mean. But I guess it must remain a secret for now.

Well, we can't get into specifics yet. We've made plans and discussed it, but nothing has been set out in code yet. That's when we will find out what works and what doesn't.

[Bukary]

I'm learning this editor and starting to like it. Unfortunately, sometimes when I run bsp or try to save my map I get file error messages:

Unable to delete the old .bak file: 2

Or

Unable to rename .map to the .bak: 13

Etc.

What does it mean? Do I have to reinstall everything?

[Gildoran]

No... just ignore that error. As far as anybody can tell, it's not important. Also I believe Sparhawk might have made a patch to stop that error from occuring.

[Bukary]

No... just ignore that error. As far as anybody can tell, it's not important. Also I believe Sparhawk might have made a patch to stop that error from occuring.

So... some of you have also encountered this problem. What's the cause of this? It's extremaly annoying. As far as I remember, it started after I applied 1.3 patch.

[New Horizon]

So... some of you have also encountered this problem. What's the cause of this? It's extremaly annoying. As far as I remember, it started after I applied 1.3 patch.

Yeah, it's just a little glitch that was caused after the 1.3 patch. I'll locate the fix and post it. It doesn't hurt anything, so you can ignore it safely.

[New Horizon]

Also, Mod Wiki is a great resource for doom 3 info.

Fix for .bak file error.


Go into your base folder and open the doom.qe4 file.

You will see something like this. For some reason, the patch changed all the lines beginning with W.

"mapspath" "w:\doom\base\maps"
"bsp" ""
"bsp noflood" ""
"bsp shadowOpt 2" ""
"bsp noaas" ""
"bspext" ""
"bspext noflood" ""
"autosave" "c:\autosave.map"
"autosave1" "c:\autosave1.map"
"autosave2" "c:\autosave2.map"
"texturepath" "w:\doom\base\textures"
"entitypath" "w:\doom\base\scripts\*.def"
"remotebasepath" "w:\doom\base"
"rshcmd" ""
"basepath" "w:\doom\base"
"brush_primit" "1"

Change them all to reflect the correct install path of doom3.

In my case, it now looks like this.

{
"mapspath" "f:\games\doom3\base\maps"
"bsp" ""
"bsp noflood" ""
"bsp shadowOpt 2" ""
"bsp noaas" ""
"bspext" ""
"bspext noflood" ""
"autosave" "c:\autosave.map"
"autosave1" "c:\autosave1.map"
"autosave2" "c:\autosave2.map"
"texturepath" "f:\games\doom3\base\textures"
"entitypath" "f:\games\doom3\base\scripts\*.def"
"remotebasepath" "f:\games\doom3\base"
"rshcmd" ""
"basepath" "f:\games\doom3\base"
"brush_primit" "1"
}

That should get rid of the error as long as you type everything correctly.

[SneaksieDave]

It goes away after a save (or a few) and a compile (or a few). It's not quite clear what's causing it, but at least the backup one seems to go away once you have a good backup created.

Edit: Or what NH said I guess. (that's what I get for parking on a thread for an hour)

Edit2: Or maybe not. NH, I have no such file in my Doom3 installs.

[pakmannen]

file->project settings

I know I have mentioned this before.. Suppose this is something for the wiki..? Macsen & SubjectiveEffect?

[SneaksieDave]

Thanks, that created the file.

[SneaksieDave]

ROFL, but didn't get rid of the problem. Oh well, no biggie.

[New Horizon]

It goes away after a save (or a few) and a compile (or a few). It's not quite clear what's causing it, but at least the backup one seems to go away once you have a good backup created.

Edit: Or what NH said I guess. (that's what I get for parking on a thread for an hour)

Edit2: Or maybe not. NH, I have no such file in my Doom3 installs.

Really? It should be in the base folder. That's weird. What is even more weird, is that it was working for me...and now it stopped working for me. LOL I suck...must have only been with the two maps I tested. I had just been ignoring it up until now.

[Bukary]

Thank you all! I'll try that fix.

One more question: in which pak file will I find original maps that can be easily loaded in the editor? (It's always good to learn from the developers.) I exctracted some maps, but loading them (F2) made my editor (and Radeon) crash.