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#651 Obsttorte

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:10 PM

If you create a sufficiently small cylinder in DR it will have a rectangular profile, too. Besides that you can alter the subdivision in DR, so you can increase/reduce the tris count if desired. You obviously don't have the amount of control over the triangulation like in a modeling program, but it is sufficient most of the time imho.


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
My wiki articles: Obstipedia
Let's Map TDM YouTube playlist: ObstlerTube
Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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#652 Judith

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:18 PM

AFAIK, you don't have the control over smoothing, and that is necessary for this trick to work.


Edited by Judith, 08 March 2018 - 05:18 PM.


#653 HMart

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 09:25 AM

The problem with trying to make DR do everything is that it wouldn't do anything particularly well. Trying to replicate all of the core modelling features of a tool like Blender would take years of work, require massive changes to the application structure, and would still never be as powerful or usable as Blender itself. And then someone would want to be able to do texture painting in DR too, and it would then have to include all of the features of GIMP as well.

 

The other problem is that the MAP file doesn't have enough flexibility to support full vertex modelling like a ASE or LWO file can. You have clumsy, unsmoothed brushes, and very limited Bezier patches to play with, and that's it. To include full modelling functionality you would need to do something like export the model to an autogenerated ASE file and then load it back in via a func_static. It would be a horrible hack.

 

No one is saying to transform DR into a full fledged modeling suit. Can you explain why the map file would need to be changed? Afaik the map file only takes the necessary info from DR that idTech 4 expects, so if you give it the necessary info, nothing needs to be changed, Imo the only thing that would need to be changed is DR code it self but i'm not sure. I know Hammer is a tool made by a AAA developer, but just for argument sake, indulge me,  i'm sure no one here consider it to be a full modeling tool, even tho it has a rope/cable system, not dissimilar from the func_beam entity of DR, whose functionality can be easily done another way, is all a matter of "improving quality of life" to level designers and the less third party tools they need to change into the less error prone and faster the work is done, profit.

 

I'm sure greebo has his hands full and this functionality is indeed not a requirement so all this talk is pure dream talking from my part.     

 

Not to mention the fact that each feature added to DR increases its complexity, and therefore the learning curve for each DR newcomer.

 

The complexity of a tool depends on the user interface and the documentation available, if the interface is intuitive and the documentation is well done, any tool is able to be used by anyone. Have you seen the interface of Unreal Editor 4 and Cryengine 5 ? They are a million times more complex then DR will ever be but that didn't prevented every kid on the block to flock to them. What i asked is certainly not rocket science, anyone that knew how to put a entity into a level would know how to use the rope entity but like i said, dream talking.   

 

 

For distant art, sure. But for something placed nearby the player you'd be better off with 3d cables. But instead of cylinder, you can use 4 sides (square/rectangle profile), just give them one smoothing group. You'll save a ton of polygons, and nobody will see the difference. Old modeling trick.

 

You are right but funny enough you can create square "cylinders" in DR coupled with the material smoothing, is very easy to make nice looking and performant ropes and cables. Btw from my experience modern GPU's like more real geometry then a flat plane with a alpha texture, all those invisible pixels are still rendered and then discarded and that takes performance out, that is why many grass or particle systems try to diminish the amount of invisible pixels:

 

 

 

  • Reduce dead space around cutout-alpha particles. Use texkill to not process the transparent regions of the sprite. Alternatively, trim away the transparent areas around the particle, using an n-gon fan instead of just a quad sprite. (but beware lowered quad (2×2 pixel block) utilization when increasing the triangle count, or becoming vertex bound in the distance, so LOD from fan to a quad sprite in the distance).

   

http://realtimecolli....net/blog/?p=91



#654 Judith

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 06:37 AM

You are right but funny enough you can create square "cylinders" in DR coupled with the material smoothing, is very easy to make nice looking and performant ropes and cables. Btw from my experience modern GPU's like more real geometry then a flat plane with a alpha texture.

 

That's true, you can get away with more triangles than with transparency, even TDM engine allow for several milions of polygons per scene, as long as other things are relatively low.



#655 Obsttorte

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 11:04 AM


The complexity of a tool depends on the user interface and the documentation available, if the interface is intuitive and the documentation is well done, any tool is able to be used by anyone

I can't deny that. But both requires quiet some work, and currently we only have one person who is really working on DR. And what is intuitive and what not is quiet a subjective matter, imho.

 

But to be honest: Once can of course expect DR to become the ultimative ubertool with which you can do anything with, but if a mapper really wants to lay focus on specific aspects of map-making, he or she will most probably not be able to get around digging deeper into the matter and additional tools, independent from how advanced DR really is. And personally I don't see any problem here. There are lots of tools (many of them well documented) available that can be used by anyone, so why bother implementing all that stuff into DR.

 

I think, especially with the low manpower we have here in mind, that focusing on additions that easens or speed up the work aspects that DR is designed for is much more beneficial then keep adding more and more features. If anyone disagrees - DR is open source ;)


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild
WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.
Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches
Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models
My wiki articles: Obstipedia
Let's Map TDM YouTube playlist: ObstlerTube
Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

End of shameless self promotion.

#656 HMart

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:15 PM

Greebo the engine itself renders models that have the material names well written (so it can see the diffuse texture) but no .mtr defined has full bright and translucent, DR on the other end renders them exactly like any other model just without any normal map, but that goes easily unnoticed among many models, is there a way to make DR behave like the engine or even assign a special texture to models with no mtr define so we can see them directly on DR without the need to see ingame?

 

You could also add a option to select a model, right click in the 2D window and chose "open/see material definition", similar to what we have on the media tab. 


Edited by HMart, 13 April 2018 - 04:16 PM.





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