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Special Fm Feature Requests


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#51 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 05:55 PM

T3 spoilers ahead.
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And what is the problem with climbing gloves? They are not used to good effect in T3 at all, I know. There are places that look ripe for climbing but Ion borked the maps limit you. Eg, Kurshok cathedral throne room (yes there is some loot up there but still, you coud have gone higher) and the tower near the Pagan dockside.

But used properly, in other words designing maps for them, they would be great. Don't let prejudice spoil things.

#52 sparhawk

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:04 PM

The reasons are pretty simple. Most of us didn't like them, so we wont implement them. And the other reason is, that we feel that the player has many advantages already. Putting in climbing gloves would add just another thing that makes the game easier and thus less challenging. We want Darkmod to be a challenge, and many things that were done in T3 were put in to make it easier and more newbie friendly. Exactly the opposite from what we want to achieve. Which doesn't mean that newbioes shouldn't be possible to play it, but it should not be as easy as T3. T1/T2 were a pretty good challenge so we aim for this instead.
Gerhard

#53 New Horizon

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:10 PM

T3 spoilers ahead.
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And what is the problem with climbing gloves? They are not used to good effect in T3 at all, I know. There are places that look ripe for climbing but Ion borked the maps limit you. Eg, Kurshok cathedral throne room (yes there is some loot up there but still, you coud have gone higher) and the tower near the Pagan dockside.

But used properly, in other words designing maps for them, they would be great. Don't let prejudice spoil things.


This one has been locked down in our design document for quite some time now. :)
You shouldn't feel that there won't be other opportunities. As we said, there will be no climbing gloves but we will provide other options to achieve similar goals. We have taken the time to innovate a little bit with some of the existing tools. You'll have to trust on us this one. :) Add to the list that you're getting rope arrows...I think the best of both worlds will indeed exist.

#54 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:30 PM

Well I'm certainly very eager to see what other things you have done.

But the charge that gloves would make it easier is nonsense. Let us take Metroid PRime for an example. At one point you get heat goggles. Does that make it "easier"? No, because there are areas with no light and you have to use them there. Where there is light there is no need for them, except to search for hidden stuff. In fact, they make the game harder as the puzzles are more complex.

This can be said of many in-game "tools". If you only allow climbing on certain textures (a la T3) you can tailor your level to be as freeform (in terms of climbin) or restrictive as you like.

Not liking them is a totally different issue. And when you say "we" I hope you mean the public and not the devs because just imagine if LGS hadn't "liked" stealth. . . who are you making this for? Yourselves or the fans who want to make FMs? You campaign could leave out the climbable texture.

#55 New Horizon

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:41 PM

Well I'm certainly very eager to see what other things you have done.

But the charge that gloves would make it easier is nonsense. Let us take Metroid PRime for an example. At one point you get heat goggles. Does that make it "easier"? No, because there are areas with no light and you have to use them there. Where there is light there is no need for them, except to search for hidden stuff. In fact, they make the game harder as the puzzles are more complex.

This can be said of many in-game "tools". If you only allow climbing on certain textures (a la T3) you can tailor your level to be as freeform (in terms of climbin) or restrictive as you like.

Not liking them is a totally different issue. And when you say "we" I hope you mean the public and not the devs because just imagine if LGS hadn't "liked" stealth. . . who are you making this for? Yourselves or the fans who want to make FMs? You campaign could leave out the climbable texture.


By saying "we" I do mean the dev team and we are making this as much for the community as we are for ourselves but please remember...we are as much a part of the community as we are developers. Final decisions have to rest with the development team...otherwise, nothing gets done. We do this for free and we do it for love of the game. Just because we disliked an item does not mean we will do away with the function entirely. There are many different ways to achieve the same effect, it doens't have to be a set of gloves. ;)

I can't really comment on that any further other than to say, you don't need "climbing gloves" to climb walls. Let your imagination run wild and hopefully what we have come up with won't disappoint. :)

#56 sparhawk

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:56 PM

But the charge that gloves would make it easier is nonsense. Let us take Metroid PRime for an example. At one point you get heat goggles. Does that make it "easier"? No, because there are areas with no light and you have to use them there. Where there is light there is no need for them, except to search for hidden stuff. In fact, they make the game harder as the puzzles are more complex.


Sorry, but this is not open for discussion. We have discussed this in detail and looked at the gameplay implications and we decided that we will not do it. Period. If you are not happy with it I can't help it. When we release it, you can make your own climbing gloves if you absolutely want them. I think, and I hope that others will make extensions as well. But as we are doing this now, we are doing it in such a way that we feel T3 should have been in our opinion. And I'm pretty sure that we manage this in such a way that most people will like it. :)
Gerhard

#57 TYROT

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 08:57 PM

dear GLOVING! guests

I had to do it. After seeing your neverending wishes i had to do it.
Just for you I have modelled this KNITTING set..
If you start right away you may make your own gloves ..till we release the MOD.
And i chose this Pinky color for glove..I think it will be so cute...Think about in darkness you are climbing the wall with this pinky gloves...mmm cute just cute..

Ok..keep knitting..in any case if you out of Pinky ...i can model and render for you..

KEEP knitting... :)


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Attached Files


Edited by TYROT, 23 January 2005 - 08:57 PM.


#58 Ishtvan

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 09:15 PM

lol... maybe we could use that in a map. At least some good has come out of this discussion.

#59 New Horizon

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 09:28 PM

lol... maybe we could use that in a map. At least some good has come out of this discussion.

:lol: We're going to burn in hell aren't we?

#60 Dram

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 09:37 PM

lol. We could knit Garrett's cloak out of that. Make it a lovely pink thief :lol:

#61 Renzatic

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 09:46 PM

:lol: We're going to burn in hell aren't we?

Yup, I think this finally accounts for the other half of the team. :P

#62 Vadrosaul

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 10:08 PM

So since you guys are keeping it pretty lean and hungry, I'm wondering how soon it's coming out :D
Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

#63 Dram

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 10:13 PM

My guess is 3/4 of a year, though I have'nt seen it's status so yeah. But what I would like to know is when your site is being updated again?

#64 Dram

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 10:14 PM

LOL, just noticed that this thread has 3 pages. Starting with some FM stuff to if climbing gloves are in or not. lol

#65 New Horizon

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 10:21 PM

I would say a year to a year and a half for completion. Website update? Hmmm, not sure. Once we have something substantial to show. :)

#66 Dram

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 10:24 PM

ok, cool. Thanks :)

(starts counting days...)

--Dram

#67 Domarius

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 10:46 PM

Climbing gloves. I know rope arrows are always talked about but I would like both. You could have some great acrobatics action going on with both.

You WILL get your wall-climing jollies, so don't worry. It's just that it won't be in the form of "climbing gloves" exactly.


I see you didn't ask for stamina again after they told you we decided not to have it.
Saves me some time explaining why. For now, just take solice in the fact that I personally was on the side of HAVING stamina for a large part of the discussion, and even I was swayed over to the side of NOT having it.

#68 sparhawk

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 03:41 AM

On the issue of climbing gloves: New Horizon's climbing gloves
Gerhard

#69 Hylix Ulyx

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 01:52 PM

You peoples (the devs) covered alot of ground answering some of the questions and requests, but I'm still wondering about a particular question/request I don't think was answered:

Will the AI's have the ability to scale ladders and/or mantle. With all of the advantages the Would-be Thief will have, as well as the LACK of ladder-able AI's in Thief (Originals) slightly (and I do mean slightly) breaking immersion, I think it would be a welcome addition.

I, for one, found it alittle frustrating (and very funny) to see a guard chase me through four rooms, a hallway, down the stairs, and into the dining room only to stop and shake his sword at me because I was standing in the middle of the table.

Of course, that's assuming it's even feasible. Just curious.

Either way, nice work, peoples. You still rule.

Hylix

#70 New Horizon

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 02:03 PM

You peoples (the devs) covered alot of ground answering some of the questions and requests, but I'm still wondering about a particular question/request I don't think was answered:

Will the AI's have the ability to scale ladders and/or mantle. With all of the advantages the Would-be Thief will have, as well as the LACK of ladder-able AI's in Thief (Originals) slightly (and I do mean slightly) breaking immersion, I think it would be a welcome addition.

I, for one, found it alittle frustrating (and very funny) to see a guard chase me through four rooms, a hallway, down the stairs, and into the dining room only to stop and shake his sword at me because I was standing in the middle of the table.

Of course, that's assuming it's even feasible. Just curious.

Either way, nice work, peoples. You still rule.

Hylix

Thanks Hylix,

A little too early for us to answer that particular question in earnest, but we can tell you that we're discussing such things and to check back with us on that issue in a few months. :) It would take a lot of work to balance this against established gameplay.

#71 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 03:38 PM

I think I will use that model thanks. For my FM: In hunt of the TYROT shirt lifting skills.

Just 'cause someone new comes in you think you can just take the piss. Honestly. Challenge you to Thievery or UT2004? Let's see who really wears the pink ;)

Anyway, if I could make gloves I would. There is such prejudice against them and I cannot see why. It's narrow minded.

But if you decided to not have them and there is some other device or method that's fine with me.

#72 New Horizon

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 03:43 PM

Anyway, if I could make gloves I would. There is such prejudice against them and I cannot see why. It's narrow minded.

Not really, we just wanted to achieve this in a different way. We can be a tough bunch sometimes. :)

#73 TYROT

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 06:10 PM

Dear GUEST

:) Mark my word. if we dont deliver something OUTSTANDING then anything you have seen before,

I m gonna knit a pink shirt and wear it and write on it . "we SUCK ! " And take a photo and release here...

But if we deliver....Im gonna model you with this Pink shirt and put a tag "Im guest ..I SUCK" and put you in the engine..what do you say..?

you wanted a challange..here it is :)

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#74 oDDity

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 06:14 PM

Not really, we just wanted to achieve this in a different way. We can be a tough bunch sometimes. :)

He's trying to be diplomatic (as usual), but you're right, it's pure and simple predjudice. We loath and despise the very notion of climbing golves and everything they stand for. To us, they symbolise everything that was wrong with 'Deadly Shadows'.
Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.
- Emil Zola

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#75 New Horizon

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 06:24 PM

:lol: Never one to mince words! oDDity has yet again proven why we keep him chained in the basement, working long hard hours on those mouth watering models, without food or water. How the hell did he get out here? Shoo shoo. BACK I SAY!!!

At any rate, yes...there are people on the team who loathe climbing gloves, there are people in the community who loathe them. It makes absolutely no difference what our motivations were. The point is that the FUNCTION will exist. For some there is a stigma attached to climbing gloves, might as well start fresh and give it a fair chance.




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