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Special Fm Feature Requests


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#76 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 06:53 PM

What is with the "guest" bashing? Just cuz I'm not a member and new to the forums doesn't? Why does it matter?

I just don't understand the climbing glove hate. I'm not trying to make you change your minds (as if!) but if you know that your dislike comes form TDS, you must also realise that it is a little unreasonable.

#77 Renzatic

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 07:03 PM

We're gonna have rope arrows, so the inclusion of the gloves would be a little redundant. Having 2 ways to scale a wall would make the game a little too easy.

#78 New Horizon

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 07:07 PM

What is with the "guest" bashing? Just cuz I'm not a member and new to the forums doesn't? Why does it matter?

I just don't understand the climbing glove hate. I'm not trying to make you change your minds (as if!) but if you know that your dislike comes form TDS, you must also realise that it is a little unreasonable.


:lol: No guest bashing going on here. Sorry if you were given that impression. As we said, there will be vertical wall movement. It just won't be with gloves. You have to understand that with the inclusion of rope arrows, vertical movement must be balanced a little differently. Nothing more complicated than that really. Some feel more strongly about it than others but in the end it has to come down to a design decision and nothing more. :) If we refused to include any form of vertical wall movement...now THAT would be unreasonable. That's really all that can be said about it without repeating what has already been said. :)

#79 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 07:17 PM

I don't think rope arrows make gloves redunant. There are many situtations where you could even need both. Or where you have to use one or the other to get into different entrances.

#80 Dram

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 09:54 PM

I cannot understand one thing: Why has this post stretched to 4 pages? :rolleyes: Please Guest, they said that something SIMILAR to climbing gloves will be in place. Isn't that enough? Look, at worst you can chuck them in yourself when the mod is released. Don't get me wrong either, I'm not trying to insult you :) .

Oh I see, guess that talking about something keeps us from counting the 31536000 seconds that are in a year :P till the release of the mod.

I find it pointless to argue about climbing gloves when sparhawk has shown a link to New Horizon's PERFECT climbing gloves ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ), and insulting one another will only lead to something similar like in the thread "I will make your site!" :blink: .

You see, when I got up to here in typing, I no longer want to waste the time by cancelling this post, so therefore I'm gonna leave it B) .

#81 Vadrosaul

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 09:57 PM

How come its going to take so long? I mean the SDK is out, you are talented individuals, and you guys said its not a full game but a conversion & toolset....
Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

#82 Dram

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 10:02 PM

I do have one question however:

Will the ropes be physicalized? (as in, will you be able to swing them? [would take advantage of Havok's Ragdoll physics ;) ])

To Guest: Sorry for completely changing the subject, but in reality it is relevant. See, if you can stick a rope arrow into a wooden stick, you could swing to the window, not have to use gloves:

------------ ----------
------ --- -=-----== | | |
/ / | | | |
/ / | -----------
/ / | | | |
------ | | | |
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#83 Dram

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 10:03 PM

WTF!?!?! it ruined my beautiful picture <_< <_< <_< <_< <_< <_< <_< <_<

#84 Dram

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 10:05 PM

Vadrosaul: My guess would be that they have to sort out Textures, Item Textures, People Textures, Voices, Sounds, Music, Sample maps, etc...

Can be quite time-consuming ;)

#85 New Horizon

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 10:33 PM

How come its going to take so long? I mean the SDK is out, you are talented individuals, and you guys said its not a full game but a conversion & toolset....


I hope you're not serious Vad. :lol: It's a total conversion of the Doom 3 engine into a stealth based platform. Everything has to be designed from the ground up. AI, Sound propagation, Textures, Models, Voice Sets...etc, etc. This can not be pulled together in a few months.

#86 Vadrosaul

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 02:10 AM

I hope you're not serious Vad. :lol: It's a total conversion of the Doom 3 engine into a stealth based platform. Everything has to be designed from the ground up. AI, Sound propagation, Textures, Models, Voice Sets...etc, etc. This can not be pulled together in a few months.

Serious about what? I asked a question. Kinda sucks that it'll be so long, but I guess time can be taken, especially after hearing that some pricks at Eidos want to take Thief out of its Medieval steampunk setting and plop it into some Splinter Cell garbage.
Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

#87 Ishtvan

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 02:11 AM

Will the ropes be physicalized? (as in, will you be able to swing them? [would take advantage of Havok's Ragdoll physics ;) ])

Domarius is the man to ask about the capabilities of rope arrows, since he's working on them. I can try to provide a limited answer for you though, based on very preliminary reports: Doom3 has a limitation that a surface that a player can climb on must be straight up and down. So while we can animate a rope model to swing, we cannot swing the actual surface the player sticks to. Maybe we'll find a way around that, maybe not. Can't promise anything at this point.

PS: The Doom3 SDK does not include the Havok engine. That would be something we'd have to pay a lot of money for. :)

Edited by Ishtvan, 25 January 2005 - 02:18 AM.


#88 sparhawk

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 03:48 AM

@Vadrosaul: One of the reasons why it takes so long is because it is a free project. If I were to work full time with a paid job on it, I can assure you that we would be much farther ahead, but of course we have a real life as well. I have wife and kids who also demand some time. :) And I think we are not doing such a bad progress after all. You also have to keep one thing in mind as well. Working on such a project is a huge drain on motivation. When you start the project everybody is excited and progress is tremendously fast, but as the time goes on this enthusisasm dwindles and is replaced with hard work. That's why many mods fail after a few months of work. So it's better to take it's time with a steady progress then put to much energy into it and it's gone after a short time. I hope you know what I mean. :) That's also why I'm really impressed with the work of T2X. Not because their campaign is so good or anytrhing (I can't comment on the overall quality, as I haven't seen much beyond a few screenshots). The real achievment of T2X is that they really sticked four years to their project and made it into a finished product. So even if it were crap quality, that stamina accounts for much more than anything else, because of what I said above.

So currently the team has settled into a good workflow with steady progress and continuous working habbit. As it is I think that our core team has established itself and I guess that most of our current members will stick to the project. :)

Another thing why it is slow going is because of the SDK itself. It's not as if you are handed over a 300 page manual where all the technical aspects are explained, and a clean API you can code with. Most of the stuff we have to find out ourselfe, as we are on a frontier. Many things that we do, are not needed for other mods, or even if they are, other mods are on the same frontier with us, so there is not THAT much help. The lightgem is something that many mods, I talked with, are quite interested in, because the functionality is aboslutely new and alien to D3 concept. Same with the sound propagation, which is a core feature of a thief style game. Not to talk about the advanced AI that for such a game is needed. You wouldn't do with a standard attack AI as it is used in D3.

And cocnerning the physics of the rope. There is no Havok in D3. That's HL2. ;) D3 uses it's own physics implementation which is not so bad. But doing a physically correct rope is not our top priority at this point because this is mostly eycandy. First and foremost we will implement the core gameplay elements so that the game gets rolling and FM authors can start on developing campaings. After that we can improve the darkmod with eyecandy features or stuff that is not strictly neccessary. If we have a rope arrow like it was in T1/T2 that's enough for now as a proof of concept. You can use it, which is the major point for now.

And one additional point. The SDK was released on 15. October. This means that we are working now about 3 months on the actual code. Considering that game companies take 2-3 years even when they are NOT developing their own engine, it should be obvious that we can not be THAT much ahead by now. ;)
Gerhard

#89 Dram

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 06:47 AM

Ahh, I see. I was so sure it uses havok (like HL2, UT2004, FarCry, etc), no matter. I guess a physicalized rope could be difficult... though an animation which makes the rope look like it's fiddling a bit would be enough i think ;) (like in t1, t2). Guess the ropes would be used with the design of the map i guess.

One last question: How many people have tried my mod? ;) Just curious. :)
If you've tried it, then please tell me any bugs, suggestions, etc, cos it's greatly appreciated :) .

--Dram

#90 sparhawk

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 06:49 AM

I haven't tried it because I don't have UT. I never liked it, and I don't want to get a copy just for evaluating your mod. :)
Gerhard

#91 Dram

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 06:52 AM

LOL, ok. :lol:

c'mon, UT's not THAAAAAAAAAT bad is it?

#92 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 03:45 PM

Gaaahh! I'm not arguing to try and convince the team to put gloves in, I was simply stating the possible merits of the gloves. Yes, there is some other climbing method and as it's not rope arrows there must be something else.

Grappeling hook? Fairly easy to implement I reckon. If you already have rope arrows anyway. It would have similar properties to a ladder after all. Could be a stone cutter arrow that lodges in rock.

Either way, that would be pretty interesting. And no, it's not the same as a rope arrow. You could use it to climb over walls or scale buildings without wood.

And for info- I only bought UT for Thievery.

#93 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 05:16 PM

Ahh, I see. I was so sure it uses havok (like HL2, UT2004, FarCry, etc), no matter. I guess a physicalized rope could be difficult... though an animation which makes the rope look like it's fiddling a bit would be enough i think ;) (like in t1, t2). Guess the ropes would be used with the design of the map i guess.

--Dram

Um, not exactly...Unreal engine uses Karma physics, not Havoc.

#94 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 10:27 PM

One last question: How many people have tried my mod? ;) Just curious. :)
If you've tried it, then please tell me any bugs, suggestions, etc, cos it's greatly appreciated :) .

--Dram

Which mod is that? Is that the 'Thievery' mod for UT or something? I've heard really good things about it, but haven't had a chance to play it myself.

#95 Dram

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 12:38 AM

Darkness_Falls: I made changes to Thievery and edited some maps for it and sent it to NH for evaluation.

#96 New Horizon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 01:15 AM

Which mod is that? Is that the 'Thievery' mod for UT or something? I've heard really good things about it, but haven't had a chance to play it myself.

It's up on the FTP Darkness. :)

#97 Domarius

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 11:02 AM

Gaaahh! I'm not arguing to try and convince the team to put gloves in, I was simply stating the possible merits of the gloves. Yes, there is some other climbing method and as it's not rope arrows there must be something else.


And WE'RE telling you that there IS another way to climb walls being talked about, and yes it ISN'T the rope arrow. The rope arrow doesn't make it redunant. It's wall climbing. It's just not with "climbing gloves". The gloves are aesthetic. They're not dependant on the actual function. The function of "wall climbing" is being talked about. It's just not going to look like gloves. And it won't work EXACTLY the same as T3, which is a bit too much of an advantage for the player. There are more limitations imposed to balance the game better.

But like I said, it's being discussed. It's not concrete, but it's being discussed.

#98 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:42 PM

Yes yes, I read it already. :rolleyes:

#99 Hylix Ulyx

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:31 PM

@ New Horizon

thanks for answering my question...i've been away from the internet (the horror!), so I didn't get a chance to view your answer. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I'll definitely check back a few months from now to see your final response.

Nice work,

Hylix




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