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Prince Of Persia Meets Garreth


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#1 Hippo

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 01:41 PM

To starters, has anyone played the new Prince of Persia games, The Sands of Time and/or Warrior Within?
If so, this will be a lot easier to understand ;) And I know you're not going to use
any Garreth or Thief Universe material in your mod, but I needed to name my
character ;).

Okay, our Prince is very capable in acrobatics and know some nifty moves that could sure do a lot for Garreth.

An example:
Garreth can grab himself up from a edge. Prince can do that too, but he's far more efficient in it. Instead of pulling himself up from a edge, he can also keep hang on it. Lets say that the edge is too thin to climb up but you can still move sidesways on it still hanging on. Could be usefull to go places. From that "hanging position" Prince can also jumb off in an opposite direction, which is kinda usefull if there happens to be an another edge to climb to, or a platform.

I'm also thinking about "a Tarzan move" (for a lack of word). You have a rope arrow. You can shoot it. You can grab your hands on it and climb up. What you can't do is swing yourself around and let go. WHEE! OOliooliolooo *Tarzan sound* Er, yeah. Cool? Well, those of you who has played the new Prince of Persia games knows.

These moves could really bring some freedom to a level. Which way to break in, avoid unnecessary contact with enemy etc. After all our Garreth IS a master thief and he should have enough dexterity to do these moves.

Of course this requiers to work smooth in a first person mode (because I'm assuming that there will not be a third person mode, and god help me, if there will be). We don't want any Tomb Raiders or Splinter Cells running wild. ;)

Prince can also do wallrunning, rolls, backflips and blah blah blah, but those kind of moves really doesn't belong to the thief universe. But I really think that the "edge hanging" and jumping off one could really bring something to this game. Heck, we all want some freedom to do things :)

And it has just occured to me that can you even do these things with the Doom3 SDK? Oh god, I hope so. Otherwise I've done useless typing.

Sorry for typos and grammatic errors. Engrish... er, English isn't really my best of skills. ;)

Edited by Hippo, 19 December 2004 - 01:45 PM.


#2 Fingernail

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 01:43 PM

Yeah. Lara-Croft style.

Difficult to do in 1st person, and it's not on our list of priorities. But if more people want to see an acrobatic Thief, then I promise we'll consider more movements like this.

#3 Hippo

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 01:47 PM

Yeah. Lara-Croft style.

Difficult to do in 1st person, and it's not on our list of priorities. But if more people want to see an acrobatic Thief, then I promise we'll consider more movements like this.

Heh, I was kind of waiting Lara Croft refenses and that's not what I really had in mind. Just thinking what would be really thiefsie things to do.

#4 sparhawk

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 01:50 PM

Garreth can grab himself up from a edge. Prince can do that too, but he's far more efficient in it. Instead of pulling himself up from a edge, he can also keep hang on it. Lets say that the edge is too thin to climb up but you can still move sidesways on it still hanging on. Could be usefull to go places.


The problem, I see with this is, that works well for 3rd person, but looks probably pretty stupid in 1st.

From that "hanging position" Prince can also jumb off in an opposite direction, which is kinda usefull if there happens to be an another edge to climb to, or a platform.


I don't understan what you mean by that.

I'm also thinking about "a Tarzan move" (for a lack of word). You have a rope arrow. You can shoot it. You can grab your hands on it and climb up. What you can't do is swing yourself around and let go. WHEE! OOliooliolooo *Tarzan sound* Er, yeah. Cool? Well, those of you who has played the new Prince of Persia games knows.


Yes. I like that too. I was always under the impression that this worked in Thief, but I must have confused this with another game.

These moves could really bring some freedom to a level. Which way to break in, avoid unnecessary contact with enemy etc. After all our Garreth IS a master thief and he should have enough dexterity to do these moves.


Our Thief has already a big advantage over the AI. I don't think that it is a good diea to further enhance this for some "cool moves".

Of course this requiers to work smooth in a first person mode (because I'm assuming that there will not be a third person mode, and god help me, if there will be). We don't want any Tomb Raiders or Splinter Cells running wild. ;)


Yes. We have no plans for doing a 3rd person.

And it has just occured to me that can you even do these things with the Doom3 SDK? Oh god, I hope so. Otherwise I've done useless typing.


Sure it can be done. That is not the problem. :)
Gerhard

#5 Hippo

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 02:00 PM

I don't understan what you mean by that.

Well, insteand of pulling yourself up from a edge, like you're forced to do in Thief games, you could jump off to whatever direction allows. I mean, if you can't pull yourself up to the platform because it's too narrow to walk, you can always jump off to a different place to see if there happens to be another path. Am I getting in your head at all? :)

But yes, like said, it would look kinda silly in 1st person if not done well. And no, I don't know how to do it well.

#6 Domarius

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 07:56 PM

How much sillier would it look more than mantling already does? Maybe we'd need some HUD icon to show that you were in "hanging mode" because unlike mantling, it is not something that is over and done with - it's a traveling mode and without third person, you'd need to be sure if the game thinks your walking or hanging. Maybe that's what you guys meant by "silly in first person mode"?
My main concern as a programmer is how difficult it would be to implement. But I like it. And I agree it's not a high priority.


Swinging rope arrows is what I've always wanted :) I guess that's not a high priority either. I want to see it in the mod some day though.

#7 sparhawk

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:48 AM

How much sillier would it look more than mantling already does?


Well, mantling only takes a short time and then it is over with. But try imaging how it will look if you are staring at the wall, floating somewhere, without hands. It would look stupid and wouldn't feel well. Doing this in 3rd person is obviously easier, because you can see the guy hanging there and moving even if the animation is bad. And we would have to think how to limit various other things as well. Is it alond to look in all directions? Or should the view limited to something like it was done in T3. I certainly wouldn't like that, but turning around 180 degrees while clingin to a wall, might be kind of strange. :)

you'd need to be sure if the game thinks your walking or hanging.  Maybe that's what you guys meant by "silly in first person mode"?


The problem is for the player. It would feel like a bug when playing.

My main concern as a programmer is how difficult it would be to implement.  But I like it.  And I agree it's not a high priority.


Well, we have to code mantling anyway. So the code should not be THAT different, but of course it will add additional complexity.

Swinging rope arrows is what I've always wanted :)  I guess that's not a high priority either.  I want to see it in the mod some day though.


Yes. Me too. :) I always wanted this and I would have included this anyway. :)
Gerhard

#8 sparhawk

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 04:56 AM

Well, we certainly will take a look at these suggestions, as they might add some good stuff to the gameplay experience. But as you can see from the discussion, there is a lot to consider when adding new stuf, and an idea, that looks nice on the paper, doesn't always turn out to be fun when you actually play it. :)
Gerhard

#9 Hippo

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 09:33 AM

Yeah. Easy for me to say these things. I don't know a thing about making a mod :)
But I'm confident that you guys are doing wonderfull work there. Can't wait to see more screenshots.




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