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#51 Tels

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:02 AM

Well, I am no parent, but still, I think children have to be protected. And its not like Tels says, that adults suffer because of this protection. NO, we still get everything we want and even better: Commercial free. :D


You cannot import 18+ (or indexed) material into Germany without breaking the law. So I disagree on your "we still get everything".

But Tels, I think Mods and so on in magazines are still alowed as long as they don't release any (violent) pictures to public along the way. I mean if you're under 16/18 you cannot own the game, hence you can't play the mod and so the age requirement is still fulfilled. At least that's my logical argumentation, I am not quite sure how much truth is in there though.


Unfortunately, the law isn't about logic, common sense or whatever. It is just the law, and will be interpreted quite differently from what you think.

Even more unfortunately is that we seem to move head-first into a world where more and more stupid, and unenforcable, and self-contrdicting or other-law-contradicing laws are added to the pile-of-laws, and soon you break 15 laws before you even get out of bed. Then it only becomes a matter when they catch you (not if), and what laws they digg out to punish you, not what you actually did in the first place.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#52 OrbWeaver

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:05 AM

Then it only becomes a matter when they catch you (not if), and what laws they digg out to punish you, not what you actually did in the first place.


Which is of course the entire point. Make everybody into a criminal, and then the only difference between the people who get punished and the ones who don't is whether the government happens to like them or not.

#53 Tels

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:07 AM

.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#54 STiFU

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 01:34 PM

As long as that is indeed the case, and censorship does not apply to adults, then I have no problem. In most cases however, censorship does extend to the lives of adults, either because the laws are "accidentally" drawn too broadly, or because $SOMETHING is so dangerous that we need to prevent anybody from seeing it just in case a kid happens to look over their shoulder as they do so. :rolleyes:

:blink: WTF? Are you a representative of the Chinese Government or something?

Don't believe the lies the authorities tell you. Nobody has ever been endangered by information. It's an excuse they use in order to impose ever-expanding censorship "for your own protection" which is actually only intended to protect them.

Yeah, I can support that, sometimes the censorship is a little too strict, when it comes to forbidding things. Everything should be available 18+, but that was not my point. I want kids to have no access to such dangerous information and pictures. There are a lot of things that are dangerous to kids and there is no argue to that. I am absolutely not talking about adults here and have never been, so I can't quite understand the upset here. But you can't put me on the same level as the Chinese Government... :) I only want the kids to be protected. Every adult human may consume what he wants from my point of view.

I played doom very early as well (without the allowance of my parents though) and I am no psycho either, but when I have a look at my little brother, I can totally see what effect PCs/consoles can have on kids and teenagers. It's not guaranteed that everyone reacts so positive to violent gaming. He has nearly no friends and uses 90% of his freetime for gaming only and he cuts another 20% of his schooltime for gaming. :D And of course he is bad at school. If he would at least use the PC in a productive manor, I'd be happy. I know this is not quite the same topic, but it's a part of it, because he is only playing age inapropriate things... And I am sure, that a lot of us are addicted to pcs as well!


You cannot import 18+ (or indexed) material into Germany without breaking the law. So I disagree on your "we still get everything".

Well, there are legal possibilities. http://www.roteerdbeere.de/ for example. You have to register there and verify that you are of apropriate age and then you can order uncut and indexed stuff.

Even more unfortunately is that we seem to move head-first into a world where more and more stupid, and unenforcable, and self-contrdicting or other-law-contradicing laws are added to the pile-of-laws, and soon you break 15 laws before you even get out of bed. Then it only becomes a matter when they catch you (not if), and what laws they digg out to punish you, not what you actually did in the first place.

...and then the machines come to enslave us!! ;)

Edited by STiFU, 06 January 2008 - 01:42 PM.


#55 OrbWeaver

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 01:58 PM

There are a lot of things that are dangerous to kids and there is no argue to that.


Yes, there are. I certainly wouldn't argue with that. Passive smoking, obesity and poor diet, unsupportive or violent home environment, traffic accidents, inadequate education rendering one unemployable, drugs, street crime and gang behaviour, the list goes on. The idea that one can be "harmed" by reading something or looking at a picture, however, is pure fantasy.

He has nearly no friends and uses 90% of his freetime for gaming only and he cuts another 20% of his schooltime for gaming. :D And of course he is bad at school. If he would at least use the PC in a productive manor, I'd be happy. I know this is not quite the same topic, but it's a part of it, because he is only playing age inapropriate things... And I am sure, that a lot of us are addicted to pcs as well!


What's that got to do with violent gaming? Spending that much time on Facebook or playing Pac-Man would be just as harmful.

I don't actually find it implausible that children playing games which glorify violence could negatively influence their behaviour, but this has nothing to do with "dangerous information". In fact it is the opposite: a lack of information, relating to the real-life negative consequences of acting in a violent fashion, which is the culprit.

..and then the machines come to enslave us!! ;)


I'd be quite happy with machines taking over to be honest. At least their rules might make some sense, rather than being largely based on superstitious bullshit.

#56 STiFU

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 02:30 PM

Yeah, it'd be nice to have a little bit more logic laws... :) But I basically wanted to express that that's kind of a end-time conspiracy theory and I don't give much about those. Some might see me as rational because of that, others call me naive...

But hey. Where do you think kids "get in touch" with some of those bad things the first time? Right, in the media. That's why censory is needed. There are movies with excessive drug use, presenting the drug as something funny. That's where kids get into contact with drugs the first time and they enjoy their "trip"... Most of those movies are 16+ and I think that's ok.Though most of the 16-year-olds can't deal with drugs either, but making stuff like that 18+ would be hilarious and on the other hand destroy a big part of the film industry... ;)

#57 Olive

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:50 AM

Should be compatible with any Doom 3 version. Everything coming from The Dark Mod is in English only, though.


Are there subtitles ? I can read english, but I often miss (big) parts of dialogs - at least in movies or games. And there I can't say "could you please repeat slowly ?" :P

#58 sparhawk

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 06:24 AM

Don't worry. There will be no dialogues, because we are not doing a mission at the moment.
Gerhard

#59 Olive

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 06:55 AM

Thanks for the answer. I guess subtitles will be up to the level designers. :)

Can't wait for the release. :D

#60 Fred_31

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 02:50 PM

Hi!
Nice trailer!
How can I be on of the luky pre-beta-testers?
Plea-please-please choose me!

Edited by Fred_31, 09 January 2008 - 02:51 PM.


#61 Land-Vogt

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 03:46 PM

I thougt it was a open pre-beta, cause it's called a demo. Correct me if i'm wrong.

#62 Tels

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 03:59 PM

I thougt it was a open pre-beta, cause it's called a demo. Correct me if i'm wrong.


Yep and it will go public on 2008-01-15, if nothing stops us before *muahahahaa mad laugh*
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#63 Land-Vogt

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:07 PM

Yep and it will go public on 2008-01-15, if nothing stops us before *muahahahaa mad laugh*


In 1 week? OMG! I love you all.

#64 Tels

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:09 PM

In 1 week? OMG! I love you all.


Yes, you better all start buying Doom3 and install and patch it so you are ready when the alpha/pre-beta/demo-of-demo comes out. :)
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#65 Vadrosaul

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:24 PM

Are some guys going to be here on-call to help with any installation & setup complications?
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#66 Springheel

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:26 PM

There's usually someone around. Whether they can help or not depends on the problem. :)
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#67 Fidcal

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:27 PM

Yes - likely to open a thread just for that and there will be comprehensive instructions both in the download and on the net.

#68 demagogue

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 07:23 PM

You guys should be around. It would be sort of silly to release something like this and then hardly anybody shows up for the party...
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#69 SneaksieDave

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 07:53 PM

Here's your demo... see you in 2009!

#70 Crispy

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 09:01 PM

There are a sizeable number of us who read the forums daily or nearly daily. I haven't counted but I'd estimate about a dozen(?)

So don't worry, there will be support. We can't promise that we'll be able to solve every problem immediately, and we can't promise that we'll be heard over the inevitable frenzied chaos, but we'll be here.
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#71 Vadrosaul

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 09:17 PM

Lemme get this straight. Is the pre-beta demo a simple map with just a single objective, kind of a toned-down Bafford's?
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#72 Crispy

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 09:40 PM

It's a single map. A very, very tiny single map. A lot smaller than the map showcased in the Blackheart Manor video, and much smaller than Bafford's, so don't expect anything on a large scale. Don't think Bafford's; think more of Komag's small FM contests. Roughly that kind of scale.

There is more than one objective, but a single playthrough won't take all that long.

It's a small taste, that's all. Very work in progress, and we've disabled a few of the buggier features (though much of what remains is still unpolished).
My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.

#73 STiFU

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 11:11 PM

Nice work on the Levelshot... ;) I'd have kept those pages secret 'till the release, but it's your marketing in the end!

#74 sparhawk

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 04:35 AM

Are some guys going to be here on-call to help with any installation & setup complications?


We have hired a support center with the international 0800-HELPTDM number to call, if you experience problems. ;)
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#75 sparhawk

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 04:36 AM

You guys should be around. It would be sort of silly to release something like this and then hardly anybody shows up for the party...


There is usually always somebody around on these forums, so why should this change after the 15th?
Gerhard




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