Tricko for object modeler

[Crispy]

AMD Athlon 64 3500+

2.50GB of RAM

Geforce 7600 GT

Windows XP sevice pack 2

My specs are almost identical but slightly worse (a mere 2 GB of RAM and a 6600 GT), and TDM runs smooth as silk, so it's obviously not a spec issue.

 

Did the drivers work?

[Tricko]

Did the drivers work?

 

I've not had the time to install the new drivers (or should I say old drivers) yet. I'm in the middle of a job doing some background scenes for a puzzle game. You know the ones where you have to find a certain number of items in a cluttered scene. Eighty in this case!

 

Started on my contribution for TDM though! At the expense of sounding like a real 'newbie dumbass', could somebody point me toward a good tutorial or an explanation of what a shadow mesh is. From what I've found out so far it's a low resolution mesh (of whatever your model is) that's used 'in game' for casting shadows of that object (duh! shadow.............duh! mesh). Is this correct? I assume this is only if it's a moveable, interactive object.

 

Also Springheel suggested that ideally the model be around 500 tris but on the WIKI it suggests 500 polys. Which is it?

 

Cheers!

[greebo]

Started on my contribution for TDM though! At the expense of sounding like a real 'newbie dumbass', could somebody point me toward a good tutorial or an explanation of what a shadow mesh is. From what I've found out so far it's a low resolution mesh (of whatever your model is) that's used 'in game' for casting shadows of that object (duh! shadow.............duh! mesh). Is this correct? I assume this is only if it's a moveable, interactive object.

Yes, the shadowmesh's purpose is to reduce the complexity of the mesh with regard to calculating the object's silhouette. This applies to any model, not just moveables.

 

Also Springheel suggested that ideally the model be around 500 tris but on the WIKI it suggests 500 polys. Which is it?

Doom 3 is rendering triangles only, so each polygon is split up into tris anyway. The 500 limit is applying to triangles, consequently.

 

Basically (assuming that you're modeling using quads primarily), your polycount will double when you bring your model in-game.

[sparhawk]

I thought models have to be triangulated by the modeler, prior to importing?

[Tricko]

I thought models have to be triangulated by the modeler, prior to importing?

 

I think I read that when submitted, you want the model as an editable mesh? Does it get triangulated at this point?

[Tricko]

Yes, the shadowmesh's purpose is to reduce the complexity of the mesh with regard to calculating the object's silhouette. This applies to any model, not just moveables.

 

Does this mean I could use something that's maybe as basic as a cube or cylinder? As long as it's roughly the same size as the denser mesh?

[Crispy]

Also Springheel suggested that ideally the model be around 500 tris but on the WIKI it suggests 500 polys. Which is it?

Tris. You'll often (but not always!) hear gamedev people say "polys" when they really mean "tris", because from the graphics card's point of view everything is made of triangles.

 

Does this mean I could use something that's maybe as basic as a cube or cylinder? As long as it's roughly the same size as the denser mesh?

In the Doom 3 engine, shadow meshes are used as a lower-res stand-ins for visible meshes, for the purpose of calculating shadows only. So it should be as close in size and shape to the visible mesh as possible, but with as few tris as possible.

 

(Calculating shadows is expensive but pure polycount is relatively cheap, so it's desirable to use a lower-poly model for the shadow calculation while using more of the cheaper sort of polygons on the visible model.)

 

Suppose you had a human statue model. It would have a fair number of tris, because humans are complicated; so you'd want to make a shadow mesh for it, with fewer tris. This shadow mesh is what actually casts shadows. If you made it a simple cube, that would look really bad, because you'd have a nice complicated statue casting a cube's ugly shadow! Wouldn't look right at all.

 

On the other extreme, if you made the statue's shadow mesh an exact copy of the statue's visible mesh, then it would look perfect but have a large performance impact, since complicated shadows are expensive in the Doom 3 engine.

 

So you have to find a balance. i.e. Make a shadowmesh that matches the shape of the visible model fairly closely, so that the shadow looks right; but keep the triangle count down, so that the game runs faster.

 

Separate shadow meshes are not technically required; if you omit them, then the model's visible mesh is used as its shadow mesh. But that's typically bad for performance.

[Tricko]

Right! I think I understand, as long as the shadowmesh has a silhouette that matches very closely that of the denser mesh, but with less tris. Then that's what I should be aiming for?

 

So I just need to duplicate the original model and retopologise to get the triangle count down?

[Tels]

Right! I think I understand, as long as the shadowmesh has a silhouette that matches very closely that of the denser mesh, but with less tris. Then that's what I should be aiming for?

 

So I just need to duplicate the original model and retopologise to get the triangle count down?

 

Basically, yes. But it is only worth if the shadow mesh has a lot less tris than the model. Hard to define, but for a 50 tirs object it is probably not worth making a shadow mesh as you could basically never save more than 40 or so

[Springheel]

Don't worry too much about shadow-meshes right now...they're fairly easy to make and can always be done later, as they are just a performance-saving optimization.

[Tricko]

Thanks Tels

 

Well, cheers everyone who helped explain this to me. Now I know what a shadowmesh is.

 

Looks like I'll have to go back and look at the model I've started for my contribution piece, I think it might be a tad to detailed.

[Tricko]

OK Springheel!

[Tels]

Since SvN was down, I spent a bit more time on the shack - it's fun, and I have grown to like it so much that I plan to re-use it as a gardener's working hut in my old mill map

 

Here is an outside view from the editor:

 

 

And the inside in game:

 

 

Actually, a real big fire in such a hut would be not a good idea, as it would burn too easily. I added a metal chimney thingy, but me things the walls are still a bit too thin.

 

But then, it isn't a smithy, more like a "potion-brewery"

[Tricko]

Very nice Tels! Much better with the window frame in place.

 

Well I've finished my contribution piece, I chose the chandelier but also did the throne. Just cos I fancied doing it.

 

Here's the chandelier which is a bit over 500 tris, it was a real bugger! Just couldn't get the curvature on the stems without having to take the poly count up. Not really used to lowpoly modelling. When I textured this I got into a real 'Thief 2: The Metal Age' vibe.

 

 

 

 

Here's the Throne I did. Thought I'd just throw it in for good measure.

 

 

 

 

Cheers!!!

[Springheel]

Very cool, Tricko. The throne is great--again, I really like your texturing work. The chandelier is also good, though I can't stop interpreting the middle bit as a leather sack of some kind.

 

Anyway, I if you could email them to me (at eric 'at' mindplaces.com) I'll pop them in game. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough to set you up as a team-member...I'll talk to our resident 'permissions' expert.

[Baddcog]

Yeah those are great.

 

I suppose the chandelier would work best with one light source in the middle and no shadows cast. 4 lights casting shadows off of it would be a real fps killer. That's not really a model thing, just thinking how the game would handle it the best. I think 500 polys is fine for that. My only suggestion would be to make the plate it hangs from larger.

 

Oh, I noticed you have tri and poly count there. Really the only thing that matters is tris, all games count tri as polys, depending on the program you use to export you'll need to trinagulate the mesh into tris (3dsmax ase files don't need triangulated though)

 

Slightly off topic, our old lanterns have the same issue imo. They hang from a really small chain with no plate so a plate has to be created in editor.

[Tels]

Slightly off topic, our old lanterns have the same issue imo. They hang from a really small chain with no plate so a plate has to be created in editor.

 

Speaking of this, we really should to make the chain/plate separate from the model.

 

In praxis the chain is either way to long (sticking through the ceiling/beam) or way to short.

[Tricko]

Slightly off topic, our old lanterns have the same issue imo. They hang from a really small chain with no plate so a plate has to be created in editor.

 

Thanks guys, I'm glad you approve.

 

I'll bear that in mind Baddcog.

 

What file format do you want the models in Springheel?

[Springheel]

I need them as .lwo, preferably, or 3ds or .obj format.

[greebo]

@Tricko: Once you're setup with the correct permissions, be sure to check out this post.

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=6694

 

I wrote this as some sort of startup guide for Beta Mappers/Contributors, which should cover things like our SVN repository, licensing issues and general notes about our Team "policies" (if this deserves this name).

 

Generally, don't hesitate to ask us if you're running into troubles with anything. Don't silently chew on things - this would be a waste of time.

[Tricko]

Generally, don't hesitate to ask us if you're running into troubles with anything. Don't silently chew on things - this would be a waste of time.

 

 

Thanks Greebo, I'll bear that in mind for the future.

[Springheel]

Welcome aboard, Tricko. I think your permissions are now set. You've got a lot of reading ahead of you!

 

You should definitely check out our models webpage: http://www.tjoff.com/jens/darkmod/gallery/...m.php?albumID=4

(the password is in http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=609)

 

This will give you easy access to models that are completed, so you can check out styles, etc. There is also a master list of models still needed in the model forum.

 

And, as greebo said, don't hesitate to ask.

[Baddcog]

Also if you haven't checked it out the Wiki has detailed info about model specs, requirements, ect... Link at top of forum

[Tricko]

You should definitely check out our models webpage: http://www.tjoff.com/jens/darkmod/gallery/...m.php?albumID=4

(the password is in http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=609)

 

This will give you easy access to models that are completed, so you can check out styles, etc. There is also a master list of models still needed in the model forum.

 

And, as greebo said, don't hesitate to ask.

[Tricko]

Sorry, hit the wrong button!

 

Where is the master list of models required? I'll get down to some more modelling if I can find it.